China faces headaches from warming Vietnam-U.S. ties

[Emperor_of_Mankind]

Good call, gives China more reason to militarize the scs and kick some Vietnamese ***!

 

[BoQ77]

I dunno what fierce weapons or new technology will US give to Vietnam, probably is those old junk that the US army would never want to reuse. Instead of throw in garbage or recycle, the US give to Vietnam for free. Just like the PH getting the same. I'm feeling sorry for PH and Vietnam.

According to your post, Russian sale of weapon to Vietnam is more lethality than US which is all obsoleted items.
I agree that PH get all old junk.

 

[William Hung]

But..On average Chinese is much richer than Viets.

Correct...but VN doesn’t spend $150 billion per annual on military spendings either. And what you have said does not explain away the funny logic and double standard behind his comments.

 

[GS Zhou]

Correct...but VN doesn’t spend $150 billion per annual on military spendings either. And what you have said does not explain away the funny logic and double standard behind his comments.

China spends 1.9% of its GDP on defense. But Vietnam spends 2.3% of the GDP.

Military expenditure as percentage of GDP (source: Stockholm International Peace Research Institute)

What's more important is the way the two countries spend the military budget:
For China, we have a strong manufacturing base, therefore the money we spend on new military equipment, the money we spend on J10, J11, J15, J16, J20, 052C, 052D, 054A, 055, 001A, submarines, Dongfeng-family missiles, different kinds of satellites, etc, will eventually be kept within our own economy circulation. The money we spend on these equipment
- turns to be the wages of our scientists, engineers and workers, so better talents could be attracted;
- turns to be the funds for the defense industry to upgrade their manufacturing equipment
- turns to be the profits of the defense industry so they could invest more on new weapons R&D
- turns to be the taxes paid to government so the money becomes the government budget again

But for Vietnam, the money you spend on new military equipment unfortunately turns to be
- wages of Russian scientists, engineers and workers
- funds for the Russian defense industry to upgrade their manufacturing equipment
- profits of the Russian defense industry
- taxes paid to Russian government

 

[Viet]

Can't compared wtih the Vietnam War. Im sorry for break Vietnamese Indo-China dream in last "Honeymoon" of China-America tie, both (China and U.S) break it up. Gave the money and pride to America, that's Japan not China. Now ur Vietnam wanna be next, isn't it ? I know the Ukraine and Iraq ever had the same plan, now there'r "FREE" for armed groups !

You are never tired spewing Chinese propaganda and bullshit, aren't you?

If Cambodia under the Red Khner hadn't staged domestic genocide, killing half of population including Viet ethnics, nor invading Vietnam, we would not have retaliated.

You always seek every possible excuses to attack Vietnam.

Read the history of the Han, Song, Ming and other dynasties.

You even invaded Vietnam when we stopped paying tribute.

The Siamese once annexed Laos and Cambodia. Why had you refused to intervene if you care too much about a party dominating indochinese mainland?

 

[William Hung]

China spends 1.9% of its GDP on defense. But Vietnam spends 2.3% of the GDP.

Military expenditure as percentage of GDP (source: Stockholm International Peace Research Institute)
View attachment 307886

What's more important is the way the two countries spend the military budget:
For China, we have a strong manufacturing base, therefore the money we spend on new military equipment, the money we spend on J10, J11, J15, J16, J20, 052C, 052D, 054A, 055, 001A, submarines, Dongfeng-family missiles, different kinds of satellites, etc, will eventually be kept within our own economy circulation. The money we spend on these equipment
- turns to be the wages of our scientists, engineers and workers, so better talents could be attracted;
- turns to be the funds for the defense industry to upgrade their manufacturing equipment
- turns to be the profits of the defense industry so they could invest more on new weapons R&D
- turns to be the taxes paid to government so the money becomes the government budget again

But for Vietnam, the money you spend on new military equipment unfortunately turns to be
- wages of Russian scientists, engineers and workers
- funds for the Russian defense industry to upgrade their manufacturing equipment
- profits of the Russian defense industry
- taxes paid to Russian government

1.9% or 2.3% LOL you gonna nitpick on that? you can’t even see my original point? I was not saying that there is something wrong with China’s defence budget or that China is spending too much, etc. I am saying that China and Vietnam both have a defence budget, so your friend was using funny logic and double standard when he made comments about VN spending money for military.

Your other comments does not explain away his funny logic and double standard. Since it seems like you connect the dots, so let me break it down for you and explain it step by step:

- Do you agree that safeguarding national security alone is a justifiable reason to allocate resources for a defence budget (e.g. military spending)? that national security can be as important as other govt spending?

If yes, then VN is justified in allocating money for a defence budget...PERIOD. Having the perks of operating domestic industries is irrelevant to this question because whether the money is spent on imports or domestic industries, it still serves the ultimate goal for that defence budget, which is national security, not profits, jobs creation, etc.

China has a strong domestic defense industry that comes with perks? good for you, congrats! but the perks of having your own domestic industry such as jobs creation, tax revenue, profits, etc. is just extra bonuses, not the ultimate goal of a defence budget. If you disagree and say that these perks are not just extra bonuses but indeed part of the ultimate goal for your defence budget, then you are a war profiteer, the thing that your friend was accusing the US of being.

- So, its true that VN’s domestic defense industry is insignificant, but does that mean that VN is not justified in having a defence budget because it doesn’t have any significant domestic industry? If a country can only import military arms, then it has no justification for a defence budget?

If you answer “no, VN has no justification”, then there is something wrong with your intelligence. But if you answer it “yes”, then why make a big fuss about VN using that defence budget for its national security? Its true VN does not enjoy having those perks from domestic industries like China, but it still has a duty to allocate money for national security.

So, if you have answered yes to both of the above questions, agreeing that allocating a defence budget for national security can be as important as other govt spendings, and that VN is still justified in allocating a defence budget even if it has no significant domestic defence industry, then there is no reason for your friend to make those funny comments about VN’s military spending, other than for reasons of being butthurt or being irked by the VN-US ties like what the OP article said lol.

He could argue that VN’s military is already very modern and overpowered so the spending is unjustified (e.g. that VN 2.3% GDP is an overspent while China is not)...but its not true that VN’s military is already modern and overpowered, and I can bet with you that your friend will not be able to present a credible analysis or data for similar arguments. So why did your friend made those comments about VN’s military spending? it must be because of something like a butthurt or a headache.

 

[BoQ77]

I don't know if it's wrong or not.
But to keep 2-3 million of active military ( 7 million of total: active, reserve, para military ), and pay for their service, annually, you need 5,000 ? or 10,000 USD / each.
So the total amount should be 10 billion, 15 billion or 30 billion dollars only for salary of active military. And much more if you have to pay for paramilitary ... ( for example, fake fishermen, ... 50 cents troops ... )

1. 10 billion
2. 15 billion
3. 30 billion
4. 50 billion
??? you choose

 

[xunzi]

Correct...but VN doesn’t spend $150 billion per annual on military spendings either. And what you have said does not explain away the funny logic and double standard behind his comments.

Like I said before, you can spend however money you want on buying weapons as long as it is not ODA or aid money.

 

[BoQ77]

Like I said before, you can spend however money you want on buying weapons as long as it is not ODA or aid money.

Both can spend for ITAR listed item or some others.
Like the building or the usage of military satellites, warships...
PH even borrowed surveillance airplane from JP

 

[GS Zhou]

1.9% or 2.3% LOL you gonna nitpick on that? you can’t even see my original point? I was not saying that there is something wrong with China’s defence budget or that China is spending too much, etc. I am saying that China and Vietnam both have a defence budget, so your friend was using funny logic and double standard when he made comments about VN spending money for military.

Your other comments does not explain away his funny logic and double standard. Since it seems like you connect the dots, so let me break it down for you and explain it step by step:

- Do you agree that safeguarding national security alone is a justifiable reason to allocate resources for a defence budget (e.g. military spending)? that national security can be as important as other govt spending?

If yes, then VN is justified in allocating money for a defence budget...PERIOD. Having the perks of operating domestic industries is irrelevant to this question because whether the money is spent on imports or domestic industries, it still serves the ultimate goal for that defence budget, which is national security, not profits, jobs creation, etc.

China has a strong domestic defense industry that comes with perks? good for you, congrats! but the perks of having your own domestic industry such as jobs creation, tax revenue, profits, etc. is just extra bonuses, not the ultimate goal of a defence budget. If you disagree and say that these perks are not just extra bonuses but indeed part of the ultimate goal for your defence budget, then you are a war profiteer, the thing that your friend was accusing the US of being.

- So, its true that VN’s domestic defense industry is insignificant, but does that mean that VN is not justified in having a defence budget because it doesn’t have any significant domestic industry? If a country can only import military arms, then it has no justification for a defence budget?

If you answer “no, VN has no justification”, then there is something wrong with your intelligence. But if you answer it “yes”, then why make a big fuss about VN using that defence budget for its national security? Its true VN does not enjoy having those perks from domestic industries like China, but it still has a duty to allocate money for national security.

So, if you have answered yes to both of the above questions, agreeing that allocating a defence budget for national security can be as important as other govt spendings, and that VN is still justified in allocating a defence budget even if it has no significant domestic defence industry, then there is no reason for your friend to make those funny comments about VN’s military spending, other than for reasons of being butthurt or being irked by the VN-US ties like what the OP article said lol.

He could argue that VN’s military is already very modern and overpowered so the spending is unjustified (e.g. that VN 2.3% GDP is an overspent while China is not)...but its not true that VN’s military is already modern and overpowered, and I can bet with you that your friend will not be able to present a credible analysis or data for similar arguments. So why did your friend made those comments about VN’s military spending? it must be because of something like a butthurt or a headache.

In peaceful time, military spending needs to serve both targets: national security, and economy development. To many countries, the two targets are actually equally important. That is why India asks western defense companies to do localization in India, that's also why Australia makes localization a key requirement in its recent submarines bidding.

I'm not sure if 2.3% of GDP on military is overspent or not to Vietnam. But considering VCP even needs to allow army enterprises to control the highly-profitable banking and telecommunication business, I think it won't be an easy job for VCP to allocate sufficient budget to VPA.

Let's make the comparison in another angle. Vietnam's 2014 GDP was 186.2 billion USD, or 1,160 billion CNY. Shenzhen, a city from Guangdong Province of China, its 2014 GDP was 1,600 billion CNY, or 40% larger than Vietnam. If Shenzhen needs to spend 2.3% of its GDP on military, the city will never has the chance to build high speed rail lines, metro lines, express ways to its scale today. What's more important is, the burden on military will kill Shenzhen's dream for an advanced industry. So it will never has the chance to own BYD (World No.1 electric vehicles maker), Huawei (World No.1 telecommunication equipment maker), Tencent (one of the largest internet companies on the earth), DJI (World No.1 drone maker). Fortunately, in the real world, Shenzhen owns BYD, Huawei, Tencent and DJI. And these companies not only bring better lives to China (and the world), and also benefit the modernization efforts of PLA.

 

[BoQ77]

Actually, Shenzhen must pay over 2.3% of its GDP to China military budget.

 

[xunzi]

Both can spend for ITAR listed item or some others.
Like the building or the usage of military satellites, warships...
PH even borrowed surveillance airplane from JP

Borrow is much different from using aid money without permission to buy weapons.

 

[BoQ77]

Borrow is much different from using aid money without permission to buy weapons.

What aid money? What you say if the aid is for weapon purchase or donated weapon?