China expected to retire legacy J-7 fighter jets from combat service this year in 2023

[beijingwalker]

China expected to retire legacy J-7 fighter jets from combat service this year in 2023
By Liu Xuanzun
Global Times
Published: Jan 29, 2023 09:31 PM

Two J-7 fighter jets attached to an aviation brigade of the air force under the PLA Western Theater Command take off simultaneously for a live-fire flight training exercise on March 22, 2018.Photo:China Military

With the Chinese aviation industry building advanced fighter jets at an increasing pace, the country has been retiring its J-7 fighter jets since 2018, and the legacy aircraft could be completely decommissioned from the Chinese People's Liberation Army (PLA) Air Force this year, experts said on Sunday.

In recent years, the PLA Air Force has received lots of new equipment, with many units switching to fly advanced, domestically developed fighter jets, reaching new levels in both aircraft and pilot training, the China Central Television (CCTV) reported on Saturday.

At the same time, legacy equipment is being steadily decommissioned, including the J-7, the first supersonic fighter jet developed by China that can reach Mach 2. This type of second-generation fighter jet was used by the PLA Air Force and the aviation force of the PLA Navy, the CCTV report said.

The complete decommissioning procedure of the J-7 was initiated in 2018, and units that still fly the jet will accelerate this process this year, CCTV said.

China's production capacity of new aircraft has been increasing, and the number of J-7 fighter jets remaining in active service is now low, Du Wenlong, a Chinese military expert, said in the report.

According to this fast pace, the J-7 will likely be retired from combat service of the PLA Air Force this year, Du said.

China has been building 4.5-generation fighter jets like the J-10C and J-16 as well as the fifth-generation fighter jet J-20 in large numbers, and they will eventually replace legacy fighter jets like the J-7, experts said.

As of the end of December last year, major Chinese military aircraft manufacturers announced completion of their annually scheduled production plans, which observers said laid a solid foundation for the aviation forces of the PLA in 2023.

Wei Dongxu, a Chinese military expert, told the Global Times that the J-7 fighter jets significantly contributed to China's air defense, and many variants including the JL-9 trainer jet were developed based on the J-7.

The J-7 also sold well on the international market, Wei said.

The retired J-7s could be reserved for training and testing, or they could be modified to become drones and play new roles in modern warfare, analysts said.

J-7 fighter jets were among the PLA aircraft that were spotted flying near the island of Taiwan in an exercise in June 2021, said the defense authority on the island at the time, specifically noting that those J-7s were not drones.

China expected to retire legacy J-7 fighter jets from combat service in 2023 - Global Times

www.globaltimes.cn

 

[beijingwalker]

Farewell, 歼七

 

[Bilal9]

I don't think Bangladesh Air Force will mind if they got some of these surplus later model F-7s from Chinese Air Force stocks, after picking through the good ones and doing "c" checks and overhaul. Maybe 3/4 squadron's worth of the ones that match the F-7 BGI (or NI).

We need them for keeping up skills of the pilots.

BAF sources may have spoken to PLAAF folks.

 

[alphapak]

I don't think Bangladesh Air Force will mind if they got some of these surplus later model F-7s from Chinese Air Force stocks, after picking through the good ones and doing "c" checks and overhaul. Maybe 3/4 squadron's worth of the ones that match the F-7 BGI (or NI).

We need them for keeping up skills of the pilots.

BAF sources may have spoken to PLAAF folks.

BAF needs 4th gen or 4.5 gen jets not these out dated fighters.

 

[Bilal9]

BAF needs 4th gen or 4.5 gen jets not these out dated fighters.

Agreed, but Sheikh Hasina is full-on order-taker of Modi.

If Indians do not want us to get even 3rd Gen, how does the question of 4 or 4.5 Gen arise ?

Indian's probably won't even approve Hasina to get even 3rd Gen offensive platforms. All we have been able to get are sub-sonic trainers like K-8s, Yak-130s and (earlier) L-39s. Of course we had Fouga Magisters and Tweets as well, which were many moons ago. None of these platforms boasts anything more potent than maybe an airborne mini cannon.

You look at BAF inventory - I swear you will find any type of trainer, even rotary engine primary trainers like the Nanchang CJ-6.

That is where Indians want us, training on rotary engine primary trainers forever.

Lakh lanat on this Hasina woman.

 

[beijingwalker]

BAF needs 4th gen or 4.5 gen jets not these out dated fighters.

Could be used as trainers for new pilots if the price for them is low enough， the latest batch of J-17 were made in 2016, just couples of years old.

 

[FuturePAF]

How many J-7s are still in the PLAAF at the moment?

 

[KaiserX]

I don't think Bangladesh Air Force will mind if they got some of these surplus later model F-7s from Chinese Air Force stocks, after picking through the good ones and doing "c" checks and overhaul. Maybe 3/4 squadron's worth of the ones that match the F-7 BGI (or NI).

We need them for keeping up skills of the pilots.

BAF sources may have spoken to PLAAF folks.

Why not just swallow your ego and order new JF17? Real combat air crafts that have proven their worth bombing Bhindia from east & west…

 

[beijingwalker]

How many J-7s are still in the PLAAF at the moment?

Some data shows 241 J-7 are still in service

 

[FuturePAF]

Some data shows 241 J-7 are still in service

Does China plan to replace them on a 1:1 basis? Perhaps selloff those planes to friendly nations in developing countries and recoup some money for new aircraft production?

If this many planes are to be phased out, all this year, won’t that create a gap in fighter numbers? Or does China plan to massively crank out J-20s, J-35s, J-16s, and J-10s over the course of the next few years to make up the difference? Annual production of all these jets combines is said to be between 70-100, so it would take at least 3 years to make up the difference. Are production numbers about to go up rapidly, especially for the J-20? The Chengdu factory was recently expanded considerably and J-10 production was moved to another province.

Isn’t this on top of the planned retirement of 270 JH-7s this year?

Also, how many J-8s are still operational? References state somewhere between 75-96. What is the timeline for their retirement.

Are we about to see an all 4th
And 5th Gen PLAAF/PLANAF by the end of the decade, replacing all remaining 600 3rd Gen fighters?

 

[Bilal9]

Some data shows 241 J-7 are still in service

I wonder how many are J-7G's or J-7G2's (advanced versions) among these 241 - are comparable to the F-7BGIs which were supplied last to BAF in 2013. Supposedly the F-7BGI was better equipped and more advanced than the J-7G, these improvements were rolled into the J-7G2 before they shut down the line and changed the intake style to develop the modified J-7 Mountain Eagle supersonic trainer.

The specs (from a BAF Pilot's Facebook post back in 2013),

1) F-7 BGI has a speed of Mach 2.2
2) 7 Hard-points to carry Air to Air missiles , Laser guided bomb, GPS Guided Bombs, Drop tanks
3) Full glass cockpit.
4) can carry 3000 kg Bomb including Chinese Laser Guided Bombs.
5) F-7 BGI has KLJ-6F radar Fire control Radar with 86 km+ Range which is near BVR or BVR considering what is the silver lining between them and can track 6 and engage 2 enemy aircraft simultaneously.
6) F-7 BGI can carry C-704 Antiship Missiles (therefore maritime also possible)
7) afterburner: F-7 BGI (82 kN) thrust
8) Missiles procurement are currently unknown for F-7 BGI but they can fire the 70-75 km range PL-12,PL-11 and also PL-2, PL-5, PL-7, PL-8, PL-9, Magic R.550 and AIM-9 .
9) F-7 BGI got J-7G2 Airframe with double delta wing. This improves the lift at high angles of attack and delays or prevents stalling.
10) G-limit: +8 g / -3 g
11) Service ceiling: 17,500 m (57,420 ft) for F-7 BGI
12) 3 Multi functional HUD displays and HOTAS.
13) Chinese Helmet Mounted Sights.
14) Reportedly more maneuverable than most of the Mig-21s and many of the other contemporary fighters.

Lets compare it with the latest versions of Mig21 Bison of IAF (they have only 50 of them AFIK).

The Indian upgraded of Mig-21 Bison (Mig 21-93) consists of:
1) Super Kopyo X-band pulse Doppler radar.
2) R-77 / RVV-AEE (AA-12 Adder) beyond visual range missiles and PGMs.,
3) New nosecone, new canopy, single-piece windshield and new canopy made of stressed acrylic composites,
4) Sextant's TOTEM RLG-INS with NSS-100P GPS embedded GPS receivers,
5) El-Op HUD, infrared search and track system (IRST) from Russia's URALs optical-mechanical plant,
6) Two Sextant MFD-55 LCD displays, autopilot, radar warning receivers (RWR), digital flight data recorder, new liquid air cooling system,
7) HOTAS controls, stores management system, digital air data computer system
8) Short range radio navigation system, new HF/VHF/UHF radios,
9) Twin conformal Vympel flare dispensers (26mm, 120 rounds) and a new electric power supply system.
10) Reportedly the new RWR to be fitted, is an indigenous system developed by DRDO and goes by the name Tarang.
11) Mig21-93 has got conventional Tailed Delta Wing Configuration usual to original Mig21 Bison.

Let us now look at them more closely to compare them (I think those who are more conversant with Aircraft Systems may help us understand the difference). The bulk of IAF Mig21s are far inferior in comparison to the F-7BGI. In fact F-7 BGI is a very good stop gap option for BAF while run up to the 4th Gen Fighters.

 

[huanghong]

I wonder how many are J-7G's or J-7G2's (advanced versions) among these 241 - are comparable to the F-7BGIs which were supplied last to BAF in 2013. Supposedly the F-7BGI was better equipped and more advanced than the J-7G, these improvements were rolled into the J-7G2 before they shut down the line and changed the intake style to develop the modified J-7 Mountain Eagle supersonic trainer.

The specs (from a BAF Pilot's Facebook post back in 2013),

1) F-7 BGI has a speed of Mach 2.2
2) 7 Hard-points to carry Air to Air missiles , Laser guided bomb, GPS Guided Bombs, Drop tanks
3) Full glass cockpit.
4) can carry 3000 kg Bomb including Chinese Laser Guided Bombs.
5) F-7 BGI has KLJ-6F radar Fire control Radar with 86 km+ Range which is near BVR or BVR considering what is the silver lining between them and can track 6 and engage 2 enemy aircraft simultaneously.
6) F-7 BGI can carry C-704 Antiship Missiles (therefore maritime also possible)
7) afterburner: F-7 BGI (82 kN) thrust
8) Missiles procurement are currently unknown for F-7 BGI but they can fire the 70-75 km range PL-12,PL-11 and also PL-2, PL-5, PL-7, PL-8, PL-9, Magic R.550 and AIM-9 .
9) F-7 BGI got J-7G2 Airframe with double delta wing. This improves the lift at high angles of attack and delays or prevents stalling.
10) G-limit: +8 g / -3 g
11) Service ceiling: 17,500 m (57,420 ft) for F-7 BGI
12) 3 Multi functional HUD displays and HOTAS.
13) Chinese Helmet Mounted Sights.
14) Reportedly more maneuverable than most of the Mig-21s and many of the other contemporary fighters.

Lets compare it with the latest versions of Mig21 Bison of IAF (they have only 50 of them AFIK).

The Indian upgraded of Mig-21 Bison (Mig 21-93) consists of:
1) Super Kopyo X-band pulse Doppler radar.
2) R-77 / RVV-AEE (AA-12 Adder) beyond visual range missiles and PGMs.,
3) New nosecone, new canopy, single-piece windshield and new canopy made of stressed acrylic composites,
4) Sextant's TOTEM RLG-INS with NSS-100P GPS embedded GPS receivers,
5) El-Op HUD, infrared search and track system (IRST) from Russia's URALs optical-mechanical plant,
6) Two Sextant MFD-55 LCD displays, autopilot, radar warning receivers (RWR), digital flight data recorder, new liquid air cooling system,
7) HOTAS controls, stores management system, digital air data computer system
8) Short range radio navigation system, new HF/VHF/UHF radios,
9) Twin conformal Vympel flare dispensers (26mm, 120 rounds) and a new electric power supply system.
10) Reportedly the new RWR to be fitted, is an indigenous system developed by DRDO and goes by the name Tarang.
11) Mig21-93 has got conventional Tailed Delta Wing Configuration usual to original Mig21 Bison.

Let us now look at them more closely to compare them (I think those who are more conversant with Aircraft Systems may help us understand the difference). The bulk of IAF Mig21s are far inferior in comparison to the F-7BGI. In fact F-7 BGI is a very good stop gap option for BAF while run up to the 4th Gen Fighters.

It seems impossible for the J-7 to install a radar with a search range of 86KM and BVR capability. To be honest, the 3-ton ammunition load and BVR capability, these data seem to be the data of the FTC-2000G purchased by Myanmar with a price of 8.5 million US dollars, not the J-7 BGI.

 

[Bilal9]

It seems impossible for the J-7 to install a radar with a search range of 86KM and BVR capability. To be honest, the 3-ton ammunition load and BVR capability, these data seem to be the data of the FTC-2000G purchased by Myanmar with a price of 8.5 million US dollars, not the J-7 BGI.

I don't know where the source of that information is from. Maybe one of the posters here who work for BAF can verify. F-7BGI was one of the most advanced F-7 versions to leave the plant, even more than domestic J-7 versions (some of which were later upgraded to that standard). However I don't think anyone claimed that F-7BGI had full BVR capability with KLJ-6F radar. Maybe near BVR. This had more improvement than the KLJ-6E but not as good as KLJ-7 which is fitted on FTC-2000G.

 

[Trailer23]

@Bilal9
Usually, when you are set to retire Jets, you have something in the pipeline.

Does BAN have something - as of yet..., 'cause you're looking to retire your entire inventory when you name that jet.

 

[Bilal9]

@Bilal9
Usually, when you are set to retire Jets, you have something in the pipeline.

Does BAN have something - as of yet..., 'cause you're looking to retire your entire inventory when you name that jet.

To the best of indications, not yet. Either they are waiting for the right platforms to be offered or the Indians are vetoing everything. :-(