China confirms takeover of Gwadar port: Report

[Fanling Monk]

Exactly HOW can Gwadar play that role without good connections across Afghanistan and/or the HinduKush mountains? The Middle East is not one of China's larger markets for its goods, and transporting energy supplies in the large quantities needed by China across hundreds of miles of Pakistani territory reliably, cost-effectively and safely is easier said than done.

China's aim on Gwadar Port has nothing to do with Afghanistan. If there's a direct road/rail/pipeline link from western China to the port it'll shorten the distance of more than 6,000km for merchandizes to and fro from western Chinese provinces to the ocean near the port area instead of going through the Malacca Strait. And from there just a short distance away from Middle East, Africa and Europe. If you're talking about a two way shipments that's a lot money and time saved or if one route is blocked China has an alternative in times of wars.

China is in a process of further develop her western area and if you look at the map you'll see how import the Gwadar Port means to her, more so than the ports in Myanmar.

 

[VCheng]

China's aim on Gwadar Port has nothing to do with Afghanistan. If there's a direct road/rail/pipeline link from western China to the port it'll shorten the distance of more than 6,000km for merchandizes to and fro from western Chinese provinces to the ocean near the port area instead of going through the Malacca Strait. And from there just a short distance away from Middle East, Africa and Europe. If you're talking about a two way shipments that's a lot money and time saved or if one route is blocked China has an alternative in times of wars.

China is in a process of further develop her western area and if you look at the map you'll see how import the Gwadar Port means to her, more so than the ports in Myanmar.

That, Sir, is my very question, and a very big "IF" about a reliable four-season road/rail/pipeline link across the Khunjerab Pass. The logistics links are simply not there, and will not be possible easily, either.

 

[Developereo]

The Chinese are making a mistake.

The government in Islamabad is beyond incompetent. They cannot guarantee logistics, security or any long term commitment on Gwadar to the Chinese. The 100% inevitable fiasco in Gwadar will end up harming Pak-China relationship in the long run.

The Chinese should stay away until Islamabad demonstrates its maturity as a government.

 

[Fanling Monk]

That, Sir, is my very question, and a very big "IF" about a reliable four-season road/rail/pipeline link across the Khunjerab Pass. The logistics links are simply not there, and will not be possible easily, either.

I wouldn't underestimate the power of man against nature in this case. Both China and Pakistan are in the process of widening the Karakoram Highway now and are talking about rail and pipeline. It's fair to assume they found ways to tame the frozen segment of the route.

 

[VCheng]

I wouldn't underestimate the power of man against nature in this case. Both China and Pakistan are in the process of widening the Karakoram Highway now and are talking about rail and pipeline. It's fair to assume they found ways to tame the frozen segment of the route.

Fair to assume? I think not, considering the terrain and the weather. Unless of course, "divine" intervention happens.

 

[Fanling Monk]

Fair to assume? I think not, considering the terrain and the weather. Unless of course, "divine" intervention happens.

If one using the Xinjiang Tibetan Rail as a guide one shouldn't sell the Chinese engineering short.

 

[VCheng]

If one using the Xinjiang Tibetan Rail as a guide one shouldn't sell the Chinese engineering short.

I am not selling Chinese engineering short; I know it is world class. It is just that the HinduKush mountains are in a league of their own for difficulty in maintaining a commercially viable link.

 

[Fanling Monk]

I am not selling Chinese engineering short; I know it is world class. It is just that the HinduKush mountains are in a league of their own for difficulty in maintaining a commercially viable link.

Going to the moon was once though impossible and you know the result.

Chinese government is been known for her pragmatic views I just wouldn't she would wast tens of billions of dollars on something that's not achievable.

 

[VCheng]

Going to the moon was once though impossible and you know the result.

Chinese government is been known for her pragmatic views I just wouldn't she would wast tens of billions of dollars on something that's not achievable.

Yes, but going to the moon was not a commercially viable venture. I am sure you can see my point: there is a big difference between achievable and viable.

As an exercise, please consider the logistics of an oil pipeline through the northern areas of Pakistan, supplying 1 million barrels of oil per day over the 16,000 ft (about 4,700m) high Khunjerab Pass, through all months of the year, complete with pumping stations and servicing and security issues through an active earthquake zone (remember Attabad Lake?). Let's start with design, financing and construction, let alone reliable operation for years and years afterwards.

If you consider road transport via KKH as an option, it will take about 5,500 18-wheeler tanker trucks (or about 50 to 100 standard two-mile long freight trains, depending on grade and engine/braking capacity) to transport a million barrels of crude, roughly - per day, every day throughout the year. Try that as a logistics exercise too, please.

Similar constraints would apply to goods transport via road or rail.

 

[Fanling Monk]

Yes, but going to the moon was not a commercially viable venture. I am sure you can see my point: there is a big difference between achievable and viable.

As an exercise, please consider the logistics of an oil pipeline through the northern areas of Pakistan, supplying 1 million barrels of oil per day over the 16,000 ft (about 4,700m) high Khunjerab Pass, through all months of the year, complete with pumping stations and servicing and security issues through an active earthquake zone (remember Attabad Lake?). Let's start with design, financing and construction, let alone reliable operation for years and years afterwards.

If you consider road transport via KKH as an option, it will take about 5,500 18-wheeler tanker trucks (or about 50 to 100 standard two-mile long freight trains, depending on grade and engine/braking capacity) to transport a million barrels of crude, roughly - per day, every day throughout the year. Try that as a logistics exercise too, please.

Similar constraints would apply to goods transport via road or rail.

You make it sound like the Karakoram Highway is built only for the Chinese government which is not true at all. The concept of the highway is to benefit bilateral trade between the two countries for a long time to come. Any extension below the mountainous part is just another highway for Pakistan which will used and funded by Pakistani as intrastate usages.

Any usage by Chinese merchants and government will pay transit fee, ditto a railroad if is built. The primary users would the merchants of both sides but more so the Pakistani than the Chinese. China is not going to ship any oil/gas products unless a pipeline can be build.

This network definitely benefits more to the Pakistani populace than the Chinese for the interior industries have outlets to the port for exports and to the north toward China. Chinese government is merely one of the user for this route to the ocean and also this is not the only route.

But if you argue China builds this network for one purpose only, then I agree with you that it's not economic viable. But if you look at the distance it'll save for both countries' merchants in terms of centuries then any cost would be worth it.

 

[xyxmt]

what I read is that China Harbour Engineering Co Ltd (CHEC) is taking over the management not China the country. just like before Port of Singapore authority had the control not the govt of singapore.

 

[Icewolf]

If Gwadar is developed right, it can become the new Dubai

 

[Pak47]

Earlier there were reports on a Chinese Naval Base there as well.

Any news on that?

 

[karan21]

kinda weird why Pakistan is doing this. Maybe bcz Iran gave stake to India in chahbahar port?? Anyways china can use this port to reach africa middle east. While India will use chahbahar to do the same. Its a win win situation.

 

[Icewolf]

Earlier there were reports on a Chinese Naval Base there as well.

Any news on that?

There might be as China has a easier way to the Indian Ocean + the Persian Gulf without passing USA's Navy

kinda weird why Pakistan is doing this. Maybe bcz Iran gave stake to India in chahbahar port?? Anyways china can use this port to reach africa middle east. While India will use chahbahar to do the same. Its a win win situation.

No dude, Chabahar meant nothing to us.. It's not even in a good stragetic location.... Dont talk stuff you dont know, Gwadar is set to become the new Dubai as it is the biggest under sea port