China City Bans Long Beards, Islamic Clothing on Buses: Report

[That Guy]

Pakistanis in dilemma, friend or ummah..

No, but we've seen fake news being presented about China before, I'm simply being cautious with my wording. Having said that, it turns out that this may have truth to it, as BBC is also reporting this; In which case, I stand by my statement, this is a bad move by the Chinese.

I think you need to get your head out of the gutter, not everything is black or white.

People on this forum know that I'm probably the most critical of China-Pakistan relations.

 

[Donatello]

how is he making fool of himself by shining light on your hypocrisy...!

Since i have read his posts, i could sense sarcasm in his post, he expected me to support this cause or refrain from commenting as it concerns China. reality is, it concerns none of us. what other nations do, is their own domestic policy, just like we have.

 

[That Guy]

I understand your point, especially from a religious aspect. But there is a truth that hundreds of innocent Chinese people died in terror attacks in this year, ranks NO.4 of in the world, just behind Iraq, Syria and Libya. It is shocking data, isn't it? The first three are all at wars! China is actually at an anti-terrorism war right now, though it's not literally claimed.

And I would like to let you know that it is not Uyghur's culture at all to wear Burqa or keep beards. They are both imports from Arab countries in these a few years. Look at actual Uyghur's traditional clothing below:
View attachment 42269 View attachment 42270 View attachment 42271

Fair enough, but the burqa and keeping beards isn't an cultural export from the Arabs, it's simply a conservative Islamic tradition.

To be honest, there are a lot of Chinese people who have negative impression on Islam and Muslims. It is understandable especially considering how much they suffered. What I want to say is, when so many(or at least not a few) Muslims turn to extremists and terrorists, isn't it necessary to consider about Islam itself??? I hope one day Islam could become more open and fits better with the modern society, which would be the only way to stop the tragedies from happening again and again.

I'd like to address the bolded part; The answer to that is no. There is this mistaken belief that these are religious movements, when in fact they are nationalists. ETIM is a nationalist organization that is using Islam as a means of recruitment and unity to gain sympathy and support. This type of behavior isn't unique to Islam, or even religion, and in fact has been exercised by non-religious movements and organizations (communism used the slogan "workers of the world, unite" for a reason).

Saying that Islam needs change doesn't really tackle the core issues in the first place, and even if Islam were to somehow change, ETIM would still exist and be just as deadly, because in the end, they're a nationalist organization.

 

[shiv]

Should we continue to suck up or listen to our conscience ? A paradox indeed

 

[zxmint]

Fair enough, but the burqa and keeping beards isn't an cultural export from the Arabs, it's simply a conservative Islamic tradition.



I'd like to address the bolded part; The answer to that is no. There is this mistaken belief that these are religious movements, when in fact they are nationalists. ETIM is a nationalist organization that is using Islam as a means of recruitment and unity to gain sympathy and support. This type of behavior isn't unique to Islam, or even religion, and in fact has been exercised by non-religious movements and organizations (communism used the slogan "workers of the world, unite" for a reason).

Saying that Islam needs change doesn't really tackle the core issues in the first place, and even if Islam were to somehow change, ETIM would still exist and be just as deadly, because in the end, they're a nationalist organization.

I did not expect you to say "yes". Very few Muslims admit that there are flaws in Quran or it should be developed along with the age,and those people are viewed as betrayers of Islam. You are talking a totally different thing about nationalism and every one in the world knows that "jihad fighters" of Al-quaeda and ISIS are not nationalists.They based on religion. They claim to fight for Islam. Then the question is why Islam? Why not Christianity? Yes, Christianity used to be conservative but it had been reformed and people do not link Christian with terrorists nowadays. An easy point here is: if most people in the world "misunderstood" you, then there must be something wrong with yourself.

Yes, ETIM used to be more like pure separatists, but things had changed a lot in this a few years, they are seriously influenced by Wuwahhidun and claim to fight "jihad". They are just slaughtering ”kafirs" in most cases now.

 

[David123]

China should feel ashamed of it.
How can they stop a individual from not following their faith.

Mass punishment will not help China. All Muslim ummah of world should unite against Chinese govt.

We should boycott all their goods if they dont repeal this ban

I did not expect you to say "yes". Very few Muslims admit that there are flaws in Quran or it should be developed along with the age,and those people are viewed as betrayers of Islam. You are talking a totally different thing about nationalism and every one in the world knows that "jihad fighters" of Al-quaeda and ISIS are not nationalists.They based on religion. They claim to fight for Islam. Then the question is why Islam? Why not Christianity? Yes, Christianity used to be conservative but it had been reformed and people do not link Christian with terrorists nowadays. An easy point here is: if most people in the world "misunderstood" you, then there must be something wrong with yourself.

Yes, ETIM used to be more like pure separatists, but things had changed a lot in this a few years, they are seriously influenced by Wuwahhidun and claim to fight "jihad". They are just slaughtering ”kafirs" in most cases now.

Those people who are misinterpreting Quran are in minority. Islam is going though political and social reform.

Deep bias against any religion is diabolical.

 

[Water Car Engineer]

They are hypocrites of highest order.

Of course they are. People here are nationalist first. No matter what they say. Their Muslimness comes out only when its to their advantage.

Dont talk bad about big daddy pimp China.

Modern China has communist roots, you best believe they're not going to make any religion big. And they're watching all the global things that are happening and all the crap happening in Turkistan.

 

[That Guy]

I did not expect you to say "yes". Very few Muslims admit that there are flaws in Quran or it should be developed along with the age,and those people are viewed as betrayers of Islam. You are talking a totally different thing about nationalism and every one in the world knows that "jihad fighters" of Al-quaeda and ISIS are not nationalists.They based on religion. They claim to fight for Islam. Then the question is why Islam? Why not Christianity? Yes, Christianity used to be conservative but it had been reformed and people do not link Christian with terrorists nowadays. An easy point here is: if most people in the world "misunderstood" you, then there must be something wrong with yourself.

Yes, ETIM used to be more like pure separatists, but things had changed a lot in this a few years, they are seriously influenced by Wuwahhidun and claim to fight "jihad". They are just slaughtering ”kafirs" in most cases now.

Actually AQ and ISIS are pan-Islamists, as in they believe in a unified Islamic nation, so they're nationalists in their belief in the end. AQ and ISIS also say that they're trying to kick out foreign militaries from traditionally Muslim lands, which is in itself a secular goal, because it's a fight over land, not religion. What you call flaws, I call difference of opinion. Just because you disagree with something, doesn't mean it's automatically wrong.

Think about it this way, if you change anything about yourself, because someone told you that you were different, then you'd no longer be who you are. Changing belief isn't easy, and nor should it even be considered when it comes to spirituality. Your example of Christianity is flawed, because you're only focusing on religion. How about secular movements? Communist militants, for example are just as bad; but I'll be fair here and use your Christian example. This idea that Christianity had to reform in order to stop being violent is actually completely false, it's a myth. In may cases, Christians have had to go back to their roots, not actually reform their religion, in order to stop the bloodshed. Now I'm not going to debate history with you, because that's a long and tenuous journey, so I suggest that you research about the subject yourself before making comments about it.

As for ETIM turning their fight into a "jihad" all of a sudden, I can tell you right now (just like I mentioned before) that they're using Islam as a recruiting tool, and are throwing around Islamic lingo to try and gain sympathy among the Muslim population, for domestic and foreign.

If I suddenly started using Walmart lingo to commit crime, that doesn't mean Walmart is automatically guilty, it just means that I'm using Walmart as a tool.

Robert Pape, who (specializes in political science) actually wrote a book about terrorism and suicide bombings from so called religious movements, including Al Qaeda...

Pape claims to have compiled the world's first "database of every suicide bombing and attack around the globe from 1980 through 2003 — 315 attacks in all" (3). "The data show that there is little connection between suicide terrorism and Islamic fundamentalism, or any one of the world's religions. . . . Rather, what nearly all suicide terrorist attacks have in common is a specific secular and strategic goal: to compel modern democracies to withdraw military forces from territory that the terrorists consider to be their homeland" (4). It is important that Americans understand this growing phenomenon (4-7).

Dying to Win - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia


It's very easy to blame Islam, when you look at the conflict from the front page, but when you dig deep down to the root of the cause, you'll find that the entire situation is quite secular in nature. If Islam were to disappear today, I can guarantee you that groups like ETIM, AQ, and ISIS would NOT disappear, instead, they'd simply reorganize and use a different ideology to gain recruits.

 

[SenLin]

Is this ban for Chinese citizens only, or for (bearded) foreigners too?

 

[dlclong]

Pakistan is an Islamic country hence when you people oppress Muslims it collides with our national interest. Understand the difference?

but since you atheist lack morality, decency and honesty I can understand why its hard to understand

Well, I would say the following:
1. This provision is a few Muslims in northern Xinjiang city - Karamay
2 This provision does not prohibit beards. It stipulates that young people should not stay long and big beard, except in the elderly.
3 does not prohibit the wearing of the veil, do you think it will be implemented in the whole of China? Provisions that women should not wear Burqa and similar clothing, rather than banning all types of veil (the elderly and young people are different).

4, then again, this is China, China needs to secular Islam. These things never before in 2009.This is a necessary response to the extreme case occurred in recent years.


In addition, there are 1.3 billion Muslims in the world, many Islamic countries, Syria, Iraq, Palestine, Somalia, Muslim conflicts within these countries, not to mention the few Muslim countries like China, how could we make every Muslim in the world are satisfied?
In this forum, in China, I always speak for Muslims, support them, but I want to stand on the impartiality,, recent years China encountered the problem of Islamic extremism, we must respond.

@kobiraaz
China shelter more than 20000 Rohingya, how do you see?
Bangladesh banned Rohingya intermarried with the Bangla locals, how do you see?
will u appreciate Chinese, hate Bangladesh?

Is this ban for Chinese citizens only, or for (bearded) foreigners too?

Actually AQ and ISIS are pan-Islamists, as in they believe in a unified Islamic nation, so they're nationalists in their belief in the end. AQ and ISIS also say that they're trying to kick out foreign militaries from traditionally Muslim lands, which is in itself a secular goal, because it's a fight over land, not religion. What you call flaws, I call difference of opinion. Just because you disagree with something, doesn't mean it's automatically wrong.

Think about it this way, if you change anything about yourself, because someone told you that you were different, then you'd no longer be who you are. Changing belief isn't easy, and nor should it even be considered when it comes to spirituality. Your example of Christianity is flawed, because you're only focusing on religion. How about secular movements? Communist militants, for example are just as bad; but I'll be fair here and use your Christian example. This idea that Christianity had to reform in order to stop being violent is actually completely false, it's a myth. In may cases, Christians have had to go back to their roots, not actually reform their religion, in order to stop the bloodshed. Now I'm not going to debate history with you, because that's a long and tenuous journey, so I suggest that you research about the subject yourself before making comments about it.

As for ETIM turning their fight into a "jihad" all of a sudden, I can tell you right now (just like I mentioned before) that they're using Islam as a recruiting tool, and are throwing around Islamic lingo to try and gain sympathy among the Muslim population, for domestic and foreign.

If I suddenly started using Walmart lingo to commit crime, that doesn't mean Walmart is automatically guilty, it just means that I'm using Walmart as a tool.

Robert Pape, who (specializes in political science) actually wrote a book about terrorism and suicide bombings from so called religious movements, including Al Qaeda...



Dying to Win - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia


It's very easy to blame Islam, when you look at the conflict from the front page, but when you dig deep down to the root of the cause, you'll find that the entire situation is quite secular in nature. If Islam were to disappear today, I can guarantee you that groups like ETIM, AQ, and ISIS would NOT disappear, instead, they'd simply reorganize and use a different ideology to gain recruits.

Of course they are. People here are nationalist first. No matter what they say. Their Muslimness comes out only when its to their advantage.

Dont talk bad about big daddy pimp China.

Modern China has communist roots, you best believe they're not going to make any religion big. And they're watching all the global things that are happening and all the crap happening in Turkistan.

China should feel ashamed of it.
How can they stop a individual from not following their faith.

Mass punishment will not help China. All Muslim ummah of world should unite against Chinese govt.

We should boycott all their goods if they dont repeal this ban



Those people who are misinterpreting Quran are in minority. Islam is going though political and social reform.

Deep bias against any religion is diabolical.

Should we continue to suck up or listen to our conscience ? A paradox indeed

how is he making fool of himself by shining light on your hypocrisy...!

This is the reason why I keep on repeating so many times that India, China, US, Russia and many others should co-operate and eliminate the menace of terrorism from this region at least!

India and China -- both make such flimsy and unnatural enemies! If not outright allies, they should at least co-operate.

Alas, we will continue to work against each other while the real and common enemies grow stronger each passing day!

BEIJING (REUTERS) - A city in China's restive western region of Xinjiang has banned people with head scarves, veils and long beards from boarding buses, as the government battles unrest with a policy that critics said discriminates against Muslims.

Authorities will prohibit five types of passengers - those who wear veils, head scarves, a loose-fitting garment called a jilbab, clothing with the crescent moon and star, and those with long beards - from boarding buses in the north-western city of Karamay, state media said.

The crescent moon and star symbol of Islam features on many national flags, besides being used by groups that China says want to set up an independent state called East Turkestan.

The rules were intended to help strengthen security through August 20 during an athletics event and would be enforced by security teams, the ruling Communist Party-run Karamay Daily said on Monday.

"Those who do not comply, especially those five types of passengers, will be reported to the police," the paper said.

In July, authorities in Xinjiang's capital Urumqi banned bus passengers from carrying items ranging from cigarette lighters to yogurt and water, in a bid to prevent violent attacks.

Exiled Uighur groups and human rights activists say the government's repressive policies in Xinjiang, including controls on Islam, have provoked unrest, a claim Beijing denies.

"Officials in Karamay city are endorsing an openly racist and discriminatory policy aimed at ordinary Uighur people," Alim Seytoff, the president of the Washington-based Uyghur American Association, said in an emailed statement.

While many Uighur women dress in much the same casual style as those elsewhere in China, some have begun to wear the full veil, a garment more common in Pakistan or Afghanistan than in Xinjiang.

Police have offered money for tips on everything from "violent terrorism training" to individuals who grow long beards.

Xinjiang, home to the Muslim Uighur people who speak a Turkic language, has been beset for years by violence that the government blames on Islamist militants or separatists.

Hundreds have died in the past 18 months, but tight security makes it almost impossible for journalists to make independent assessments of the violence.

About 100 people were killed when knife-wielding attackers staged assaults in two towns in the region's south in late July, state media said, The dead included 59 "terrorists" shot dead by police. A suicide bombing killed 39 people at a market in Urumqi in May. -

See more at: China bans beards, veils from Xinjiang city's buses in security bid

@AUz your comments please

They are hypocrites of highest order.

Leave him.He is just trying do some shitty reverse psychology on you.Japan itself is highly xenophobic and has very unfavourable opinion towards muslims.

 

[kalu_miah]

Pakistani's need to be careful about their future relationship with China. With rising income the Chinese will go through a long period of intolerance for the proverbial "other" and Muslims happen to be one of the big others that will become a scapegoat due to Xinjiang separatists.

As far as I can see, a Sino-Muslim alliance is still born, it will never come to life.

We Muslims should rather depend on each other and choose a leading nation among ourselves to take the lead and for that leading Muslim nation, I vote for Turkey. We Muslims should concentrate on increasing economic and military relations between Muslim majority countries and members of OIC nations. We should draw strength from each other and give strength to each other, because in the end, we are left with no friends but ourselves and yes this goes for you the Shia Muslims as well. And together we are the biggest group anyways and if there is unity, no one will be able to stand up to us, because once united we will be 2-3 times bigger than Chinese, Hindu or the West:
Global Muslim population will exceed 3 billion out of 10 billion by 2100 AD

Muslim nations of the world should stop thinking of China as their friend, any more than the West, Russia or India is. May be today they are not enemy like Zionist or India, but no one can tell what will happen in the future. Xinjiang was a hotly contested area throughout past 2000 years and it changed hand many times. From the tenuous hold of this region during Han and Tang more than 2000 and 1400 years back, the area was under Tibetan, Turkic, Mongol, Oirat/Zunghar (western Mongolians) rule, many of whom were Muslim such as Kara Khanids and Chagataid's who later became Muslim. Sultan Satuk Bughra Khan was the first Kara Khanid Turkic Prince to accept Islam around 934 AD, whose capital was near Kashgar:
Sultan Satuq Bughra Khan - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

It is only relatively recently around 1755 Qing dynasty gained a foothold in this region and extended their control exterminating the Buddhist Oirat/Zunghar. Between 1910 and 1950, the region was turbulent and came under CPC rule after 1950.

I think Muslim world should not support independence of Uighurs, as it is impossible to achieve. The Han Chinese already have migrated there in sufficient numbers and any independence effort is doomed to failure. So Muslim world should firmly discourage any attempt for this "separatism" and "splittism" effort for independence and denounce all terrorism and senseless violence in the form of knife attacks or whatever method these criminal terrorists choose to engage in. But having said that, the Muslim world must unequivocally state with one voice that we the 1.7 - 2 billion Muslims of the world stand with our Muslim brothers in China, whether they are Hui, Uighur, Salar, Kazakh or Kyrgyz. We will not stay silent if they are oppressed in any way. We will raise our voice in unison and make it heard and reverberate throughout the globe for any injustice committed on our brothers.

So for all Muslims in this forum, be not afraid to raise your voice for justice and against injustice/zulm/oppression, lest you think you may hurt your petty "material" and "national" interest.

 

[zxmint]

China should feel ashamed of it.
How can they stop a individual from not following their faith.

Mass punishment will not help China. All Muslim ummah of world should unite against Chinese govt.

We should boycott all their goods if they dont repeal this ban



Those people who are misinterpreting Quran are in minority. Islam is going though political and social reform.

Deep bias against any religion is diabolical.

If you are a real Jewish, then you need more rockets from Hamas to kick your ***.

 

[Kyle Sun]

it will be easy to carry on such activities without a beard so this security excuse is silly

100% agree with you .

 

[zxmint]

Pakistani's need to be careful about their future relationship with China. With rising income the Chinese will go through a long period of intolerance for the proverbial "other" and Muslims happen to be one of the big others that will become a scapegoat due to Xinjiang separatists.

As far as I can see, a Sino-Muslim alliance is still born, it will never come to life.

We Muslims should rather depend on each other and choose a leading nation among ourselves to take the lead and for that leading Muslim nation, I vote for Turkey. We Muslims should concentrate on increasing economic and military relations between Muslim majority countries and members of OIC nations. We should draw strength from each other and give strength to each other, because in the end, we are left with no friends but ourselves and yes this goes for you the Shia Muslims as well. And together we are the biggest group anyways and if there is unity, no one will be able to stand up to us, because once united we will be 2-3 times bigger than Chinese, Hindu or the West:
Global Muslim population will exceed 3 billion out of 10 billion by 2100 AD

Muslim nations of the world should stop thinking of China as their friend, any more than the West, Russia or India is. May be today they are not enemy like Zionist or India, but no one can tell what will happen in the future. Xinjiang was a hotly contested area throughout past 2000 years and it changed hand many times. From the tenuous hold of this region during Han and Tang more than 2000 and 1400 years back, the area was under Tibetan, Turkic, Mongol, Oirat/Zunghar (western Mongolians) rule, many of whom were Muslim such as Kara Khanids and Chagataid's who later became Muslim. Sultan Satuk Bughra Khan was the first Kara Khanid Turkic Prince to accept Islam around 934 AD, whose capital was near Kashgar:
Sultan Satuq Bughra Khan - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

It is only relatively recently around 1755 Qing dynasty gained a foothold in this region and extended their control exterminating the Buddhist Oirat/Zunghar. Between 1910 and 1950, the region was turbulent and came under CPC rule after 1950.

I think Muslim world should not support independence of Uighurs, as it is impossible to achieve. The Han Chinese already have migrated there in sufficient numbers and any independence effort is doomed to failure. So Muslim world should firmly discourage any attempt for this "separatism" and "splittism" effort for independence and denounce all terrorism and senseless violence in the form of knife attacks or whatever method these criminal terrorists choose to engage in. But having said that, the Muslim world must unequivocally state with one voice that we the 1.7 - 2 billion Muslims of the world stand with our Muslim brothers in China, whether they are Hui, Uighur, Salar, Kazakh or Kyrgyz. We will not stay silent if they are oppressed in any way. We will raise our voice in unison and make it heard and reverberate throughout the globe for any injustice committed on our brothers.

So for all Muslims in this forum, be not afraid to raise your voice for justice and against injustice/zulm/oppression, lest you think you may hurt your petty "material" and "national" interest.

You are playing a dirty game here, rubbish. Muslim rise up for what? Keeping slaughtering Chinese? If you are a real Muslim, you should know what would be the final result when you fight against the World. You are already fighting against U.S., Russia, India, and now China? If these countries unite together to against Muslim, would you exist in this Planet for one single decade????? Extremists like you should go to hell as soon as possible.

 

[dlclong]

You are playing a dirty game here, rubbish. Muslim rise up for what? Keeping slaughtering Chinese? If you are a real Muslim, you should know what would be the final result when you fight against the World. You are already fighting against U.S., Russia, India, and now China? If these countries unite together to against Muslim, would you exist in this Planet for one single decade????? Extremists like you should go to hell as soon as possible.

Please pacified, he was a relatively mild man.
I know him.