China Builds Military Airstrip in Disputed South China Sea

[applesauce]

then how come I can never hear criticism of Mao for the famine, or criticism of Deng for Tiananmen square, (to name a few) from your end of the world.. point is even criticism by the media, of the above is controlled by the communist party..

because you've never try looking
heck Deng himself criticized Mao for his actions

 

[ManavKalia]

please send me

because you've never try looking
heck Deng himself criticized Mao for his actions

please post Chinese media link for the same..

And what about deng's criticism for Tiananmen square?

 

[Grand Historian]

Chill bro. Same can be said about Chinese history if you really want to argue. I don't want to disrespect the person who opened this thread by derailing it.

Don't fool yourself about the Qing dynasty history. We still have many records of Man Qing Dynasty. You can request them from the descendants of the Nguyen Dynasty. Contact the Grand Master of The Order of the Dragon of Annam in France. Google them. They have an English website.

This must be your favorite subject. You should consider opening your on discussion thread.

About the East Sea, this has turned us into enemy. I guess this can only be settled through war. We will fight it to the end. May the sound of Me Ling Drums beat forever within our hearts.

Why the Nguyen worships Tam Hoang? This worship goes back thousands of years before Nguyen Dynasty. They are ancestor of Hung King and of the Viet. I know Chinese worships them too. De (Emperor) Minh is third grandchild generation of agricultural spirit, Thang Nong (Shennong). His son is De Nghi. De Minh while patrolling to the South, to Ngu Linh, married Vu Tien’s daughter who gave birth to the first Hung King (Kinh Duong Vuong). De Minh establishs De Nghi that make septentrional King and bestowed Kinh for Kinh Duong Vuong to manage the South, called Xich Quy country. King Duong Vuong married with Dong Dinh Quan's daughter named Long Nu (Dragon Girl, Spirit) and born Lac Long Quan aka Hung Hien Vuong, the second Hung King of Hong Bang Dynasty.

In addition to my post above, Ma Vien (Ma Yuan) is worshipped by Hoa people in Vietnam. The Nguyen and other Viet Dynasties respect their people and their gods. Every time China get into a civil war, Chinese peasants and exile royals would head South to seek a safe haven in Vietnam. We would take them in and they are free to leave to go back to their home land once peace and order returns to China. They bring their religions and stories with them. Vietnamese are not prejudice. The Chinese share the stories of their heroes and we listen and help them built their shrines so they may worship their gods. This adds a bit of income to the village. Hence, we are called An Nam (peaceful south). Nostalgia is a part of Human survival mechanism. By allowing Hoa refugees to focus on the positive familiarity of the past it helped the Hoa refugees mask rapid changes, which allows them to be more optimistic about the future and help them cope with the present.

You are mistaken that we are engaged in a debate,an exercise in futility is hardly representative of academic rigor.

Making absurd claims based on myths and legends while refusing to sources claims,this is not an exception but the norm amongst PDF Vietnamese.

The Qing never called itself Man Qing,quote a Qing era edict or book that does so.

Shen Nong is a Chinese deity,Jehovah is worshiped across the globe today doesn't change the fact that it originated from the ancient Israeli tribes,present day Miao claim Chi You as their own despite the deity being venerated since the Zhou dynasty.

If you want proof that Shen Nong predated the Qin unification of the warring states,simply read Yijing(易經),Mengzi(孟子),Liji(禮記),Zhuangzi(莊子),Liezi(列子),Wenzi(文子),Hanfeizi(韓非子),Shangzi(商子),Guanzi(管子),Zhou Bi Suan Jing(周髀算經),Lushi Chunqiu(呂氏春秋),Zhanguo Ce(戰國策) etc.

For the nth time neither the Hung Kings or Xich Quy existed,there's been threads where this has been discussed already while proponents of this fabrication fail to provide any textual or archaeological proof.

Ma Yuan was worshiped in non Hoa provinces other deities such as Wenchang Dijun have also been erased.

 

[SamDNguyen]

You are mistaken that we are engaged in a debate,an exercise in futility is hardly representative of academic rigor.

Making absurd claims based on myths and legends while refusing to sources claims,this is not an exception but the norm amongst PDF Vietnamese.

The Qing never called itself Man Qing,quote a Qing era edict or book that does so.

Shen Nong is a Chinese deity,Jehovah is worshiped across the globe today doesn't change the fact that it originated from the ancient Israeli tribes,present day Miao claim Chi You as their own despite the deity being venerated since the Zhou dynasty.

If you want proof that Shen Nong predated the Qin unification of the warring states,simply read Yijing(易經),Mengzi(孟子),Liji(禮記),Zhuangzi(莊子),Liezi(列子),Wenzi(文子),Hanfeizi(韓非子),Shangzi(商子),Guanzi(管子),Zhou Bi Suan Jing(周髀算經),Lushi Chunqiu(呂氏春秋),Zhanguo Ce(戰國策) etc.

For the nth time neither the Hung Kings or Xich Quy existed,there's been threads where this has been discussed already while proponents of this fabrication fail to provide any textual or archaeological proof.

Ma Yuan was worshiped in non Hoa provinces other deities such as Wenchang Dijun have also been erased.

Bro, I have read all your posts. You have been debating history with Viet members in PDF. Base on what I have read, I realized you know every little about Chinese and Vietnamese history and that you studied history from translated English books. You live in America? There are volumes and volumes of good Chinese history books in the Chinese section in alot of public libraries that you can check out Bro. If not, the libraries of your university should have copies. You should read those instead of short, translated versions my friend.

Don't waste your time with spreading propaganda. It doesn't work on me. I read history records from Le, Mac and Nguyen dynasty. There are no record of non Hoa temples for such deity.

If they are not Catholic or Buddist, Vietnamese paid respect to the shrine of their immediate ancestors at home. You should come visit our Vietnam someday.

Okay. Enough on this subject. We are both off topic here. Don't be upset if I do not reply to your next post.

 

[Grand Historian]

Bro, I have read all your posts. You have been debating history with Viet members in PDF. Base on what I have read, I realized you know every little about Chinese and Vietnamese history and that you studied history from translated English books. You live in America? There are volumes and volumes of good Chinese history books in the Chinese section in alot of public libraries that you can check out Bro. If not, the libraries of your university should have copies. You should read those instead of short, translated versions my friend.

Don't waste your time with spreading propaganda. It doesn't work on me. I read history records from Le, Mac and Nguyen dynasty. There are no record of non Hoa temples for such deity.

If they are not Catholic or Buddist, Vietnamese paid respect to the shrine of their immediate ancestors at home. You should come visit our Vietnam someday.

Okay. Enough on this subject. We are both off topic here. Don't be upset if I do not reply to your next post.

I have already shown multiple times on this forum I have some sort mastery of classical Chinese yet every single time Vietnamese members all shirk away once I provide my sources.

Taihao of the Fuxi clan,Yandi of the Shennong clan

Huangdi of the Gongsun clan,Emperor Yao of the Taotang clan,Emperor Shun of the Youyu clan,King Yu of Xia,King Tang of Shang,King Wen of Zhou,King Wu of Zhou only after this do you see Kinh Duong Vuong,Lac Long Quan and the Hung King which show that the Nguyen dynasty put Chinese deities/sage kings on a higher pedestal

If you disagree with my source refute it instead of being a coward and claiming western sources are useless.

From your posts its clear you're not hear to refute anything but here to spread your agenda that Vietnamese have a long and independent native history .

Don't be so shameless and deny the gods that your ancestors worshiped,it must hurt seeing how a "foreign invader" such as Ma Yuan came to be a protector deity.

 

[SamDNguyen]

I have already shown multiple times on this forum I have some sort mastery of classical Chinese yet every single time Vietnamese members all shirk away once I provide my sources.

Taihao of the Fuxi clan,Yandi of the Shennong clan

Huangdi of the Gongsun clan,Emperor Yao of the Taotang clan,Emperor Shun of the Youyu clan,King Yu of Xia,King Tang of Shang,King Wen of Zhou,King Wu of Zhou only after this do you see Kinh Duong Vuong,Lac Long Quan and the Hung King which show that the Nguyen dynasty put Chinese deities/sage kings on a higher pedestal

If you disagree with my source refute it instead of being a coward and claiming western sources are useless.

From your posts its clear you're not hear to refute anything but here to spread your agenda that Vietnamese have a long and independent native history .

Don't be so shameless and deny the gods that your ancestors worshiped,it must hurt seeing how a "foreign invader" such as Ma Yuan came to be a protector deity.

Chinese also thought that Genghis Khan of Mongol, Kublai of Yuan, Jin, Liao, and Manchu Qing to be Chinese.

You are the one who is shameless. Falsifying evidence. I do not appreciate liars. What I have wrote about the Hung King ancestor, Viêm Đế (炎帝) họ Thần Nông, was the translation of the opening of Kỷ Hồng Bàng Thị, Đại Việt Sử Ký Ngoại Kỷ Toàn Thư - Quyển I, which was used as the official history taught during the Nguyen Dynasty and other Dynasties before it.

According to Sima Qian, Huangdi the Yellow Emperor is your ancestor. The Yellow Emperor lives 500 years (eighteen generations) after Viêm Đế and his descendants.

Bro, you should argue with Sima Qian. I am not the person who recorded your history.

 

[dichoi]

Ma Yuan was worshiped in non Hoa provinces other deities such as Wenchang Dijun have also been erased.

Ma Yuan worshiping is related to Chinese Hua people living in Vietnam only.

It is the text from the article for you reference:

"
người Hoa gốc Hải Ninh còn dựng những ngôi miếu dưới tên gọi Hộ Quốc Quan Âm miếu hoặc Ngũ Phúc Quan Âm miếu… đặt thờ Quán Thế Âm tại vị trí trung tâm của chính điện. Hai bên tượng Quan Âm đều phối tự Quan Thánh Đế Quân và Mã Viện....."

" Chinese Hua people came from Hải Ninh (prefecture from north Vietnam moved to south Vietnam) has erected the temple with the name Hộ Quốc quán âm or Ngũ Phúc quan âm. In the middle of temples there is the statue of Bodhisattva菩提 薩埵 and it also, by the side there is Ma Yuan statue."

You read more here about the custom Hua people who are living in Vietnam in this article.

http://qlkh.hcmussh.edu.vn/Resources/Docs/SubDomain/qlkh/SU_KHAO CO HOC/NHÓM CỘNG ĐỒNG NGƯỜI HOA.pdf

 

[SamDNguyen]

@Grand Historian,

Bro, you are no longer credible. Sima Qian is cursing at you from heaven for you have tried to alter and have tainted his life's work and title of the Grand Historian. None of what you said are true. Both of our history agreed that Thần Nông and his descendants, the Hung Kings lived before Huangdi.

This is my last post on this discussion with you in this thread.

Would you like to open your own thread to discuss this further?