China Bars Purchases of Micron Chips in Escalation of US Clash

China Bars Purchases of Micron Chips in Escalation of US Clash - Bloomberg
China fails Micron's products in security review, bars some purchases (channelnewsasia.com)

China fails Micron's products in security review, bars some purchases​

FILE PHOTO: A smartphone with a displayed Micron logo is placed on a computer motherboard in this illustration taken March 6, 2023. REUTERS/Dado Ruvic/Illustration/File Photo
21 May 2023 08:46PM(Updated: 21 May 2023 11:44PM)

BEIJING :China's cyberspace regulator said on Sunday that products made by U.S. memory chip manufacturer Micron Technology had failed its network security review and that it would bar operators of key infrastructure from procuring from the firm.
According to China's broad definition of critical information infrastructure, this could include sectors ranging from transport to finance.
"The review found that Micron's products have serious network security risks, which pose significant security risks to China's critical information infrastructure supply chain, affecting China's national security," the Cyberspace Administration of China (CAC) said in a statement.
Micron said it had received the CAC's notice of conclusion of its review of the company's products sold in China, and "look forward to continuing to engage in discussions with Chinese authorities".
The CAC neither provided details on what risks it had found nor what Micron products would be affected.
China announced its review of Micron's products in late March. The company said at the time it was cooperating and that its business operations in China were normal.
The governments of the United States and China are in a dispute about chip technology. Washington has imposed a series of export controls on chipmaking technology to China and moved to prevent Micron rival Yangtze Memory Technologies from buying certain American components.
Micron derives around 10 per cent of its revenue from China, but it is not clear if the decision affects the company's sales to non-Chinese customers in the country.
The larger chunk of Micron's products flowing into China are being purchased by non-Chinese firms for use in products manufactured there, according to analysts.
China in September 2021 imposed rules aimed at protecting critical information infrastructure, which require their operators to comply with stricter requirements around areas such as data security.
Beijing has broadly defined the industries it considers "critical" as ones such as public communication and transport but it has not specified exactly what type of company or business scope this will be applied to.

 

[zectech]

Computers with memory are a security risk…

Does China suggest a remedy to the Chinese public to protect them from the security risk of electronic devises that have this dangerous memory.

Should Chinese throw away these memory in devices since this is the cause of a national security ban.

Gosh, Sounds awfully very serious.

I wonder if this only effects the Chinese devices since the Chinese are not providing technical details, shouldn't the global community ban electronic devices with different brands of memory from China since this seems to only effect memory that enters China. By China exporting memory in devices, you buy an item that is a security risk. I am going to extra careful in not buying stuff from China, they have a secret security risk involving memory. Golly.

This security risk stuff could spread to other products. Maybe pull production from China back to Europe to be on the safe side.

Security risk, with no details. I would not want to buy those Chinese products with the security risk. No risk globally. Only security risk in China. Maybe there is much more security risk in China that we don't know about. Maybe 100% of products from China have security risk, with no details of the exact security risk obviously.

And if the Chinese provide the evidence of the said security risk, Chinese products are unsafe with dangerous memory, American products are unsafe. Europe needs to make the entire supply chain of electronic goods to be on the safe side.

 

[Paji]

What China really wants is for Micron to lobby Washington to go easy on the China export ban and move back some of the jobs they have moved out of China. The Chinese market is notorious for being the most price competitive though, so maybe Micron itself has also decided to make a strategic steer away to higher margin markets.

One analogy for the whole situation is a jilted lover making an announcement that he is going to dump an ex who has already moved on.

 

[gambit]

I wonder if this only effects the Chinese devices since the Chinese are not providing technical details,...

Micron DRAM NAND products somehow are technically risky, but SMIC YMTC products that uses the same processeses somehow is not technically risky. This is another case of 'Chinese physics'.

 

[Paji]

Micron DRAM NAND products somehow are technically risky, but SMIC YMTC products that uses the same processeses somehow is not technically risky. This is another case of 'Chinese physics'.

The situation has nothing to do with technology or physics or security. It is just a feeble effort at landing a punch after having been on the receiving end of a barrage. This was the least self - destructive move they could come up with. I don't think it will help their cause though.

 

[S10]

Americunts are known to install backdoors to their products. Every accusation Americunts directed at China is a projection of their own past.

 

[JSCh]

This is what Micron put out publicly: "We have received the CAC’s notice following its review of Micron products sold in China. We are evaluating the CAC’s conclusion and assessing our next steps. We look forward to continuing to engage in discussions with Chinese authorities.”

Seem Micron say "continuing to engage", that to me means that Micron knows what the Chinese objection are, and it is currently not putting out an outright deny/defence of wrong doing publicly.

Maybe Micron should take this to court, and let China present the evidence in court? That way everybody would know what the security problem is. But that seem not likely given Micron response.

 

[Paji]

This is what Micron put out publicly: "We have received the CAC’s notice following its review of Micron products sold in China. We are evaluating the CAC’s conclusion and assessing our next steps. We look forward to continuing to engage in discussions with Chinese authorities.”

Seem Micron say "continuing to engage", that to me means that Micron knows what the Chinese objection are, and it is currently not putting out an outright deny/defence of wrong doing publicly.

Maybe Micron should take this to court, and let China present the evidence in court? That way everybody would know what the security problem is. But that seem not likely given Micron response.

Micron's response is standard corporate speak. They would have said the same thing if they had been accused of infanticide. Micron's CFO has, in fact, clarified that they have been given no information about the security risk and that there is actually no restriction on Micron selling their chips in China. The restrictions have actually been imposed on certain Chinese buyers preventing them from buying Micron products. It is still unclear which buyers and which products are effected, but the burden of compliance with the ban is on the buyers, not on Micron.

As for taking a legal route, how many times have Chinese courts ruled in favour of an American company against the Chinese government, especially when it has taken a strategic decision. Micron will just keep their mouth shut and try to minimise the damage. Any direct representation on their behalf will be made by the US government - which might also try to prevent South Korean companies from replacing Micron orders so that the Chinese end up feeling the pinch of the decision.

 

[S.Y.A]

Everyone knows this because every company buy each other's products and literally under a scanning electron microscope (SEM) take the products apart, layer by layer. I have done this for a couple yrs. Very interesting work analyzing how our competitors do their things.

hey, can you start a thread about chip inspection and testing? and about hardware security and how to look for logic that shouldnt be there in ICs? this area is interesting and I would like to know more about it, maybe even try to switch to it.

 

[Zsari]

So call the truth -- that Micron's shit is great stuff but we just want to retaliate.

But China know better so the technical facade was erected -- national security risks.

And what better way is there to retaliate using your own weapon against you.

 

[Zsari]

Micron's response is standard corporate speak. They would have said the same thing if they had been accused of infanticide. Micron's CFO has, in fact, clarified that they have been given no information about the security risk and that there is actually no restriction on Micron selling their chips in China. The restrictions have actually been imposed on certain Chinese buyers preventing them from buying Micron products. It is still unclear which buyers and which products are effected, but the burden of compliance with the ban is on the buyers, not on Micron.

Micron's response is standard to minimize lost. But any Chinese companies will definitely look for alternatives regardless which products are affected by the ban.

 

[Paji]

Micron's response is standard to minimize lost. But any Chinese companies will definitely look for alternatives regardless which products are affected by the ban.

Sure, they will. They will probably switch to Samsung and Hynix, though the US government has already been lobbying to prevent that. At the end of the day, Chinese companies were not buying Micron products because they owed them a favour, but because they found them to be the best value for money. Chinese companies will also bear a cost for not being able to buy their first choice product, though there are close substitutes available - which is why the Chinese government targetted Micron and not Nvidia,some of whose chips would have been more difficult to substitute. Ultimately, demand and supply will gravitate towards equilibrium. If Micron chips cant be sold in China, they will find a market in some other country.

Anyway, since the Chinese government has still not announced the list of banned buyers and products , forget about what the security risk was, it is too early to speculate on the impact.

 

[JSCh]

South Korea signals its chipmakers can fill gap after China’s ban on Micron

Seoul says it is up to Samsung and SK Hynix to make ‘judgment’ on whether to expand their business

Subscribe to read | Financial Times

News, analysis and comment from the Financial Times, the worldʼs leading global business publication

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[Paji]

China’s New Chip Ban on Micron Puts South Korea in a Delicate Spot https://www.wsj.com/articles/chinas...-puts-south-korea-in-a-delicate-spot-21ce5259

So, Samsung and Hynix have a one year exemption from US semiconductor restrictions on China. If they step in to replace Micron in China, the US adminstration does have the lever to not extend the exemption - which will leave the Korean chips makers the option of choosing between the Chinese and American markets.

 

[gambit]

Seem Micron say "continuing to engage", that to me means that Micron knows what the Chinese objection are, and it is currently not putting out an outright deny/defence of wrong doing publicly.

Maybe Micron should take this to court, and let China present the evidence in court? That way everybody would know what the security problem is. But that seem not likely given Micron response.

Sure. Micron is more than willing to go to court, including the PUBLIC arena.

For the benefits of interested readers out there...Policy cannot exists without TECHNICAL capabilities.

Take designing a street, for example. Whether the street is one-way or two-way is a matter of policy. The government says the street is one-way or two-way. Can we design/build a street that allows only one-way (uni-directional) traffic? Yes, we can. One simple method is to simply make the street to fit only one lane of vehicles via PHYSICAL BARRIERS. Voila. A street that will allow only one direction of traffic flow. But the moment we build a street that CAN accommodate two lanes of vehicles, now we must have make a policy that says 'This street is one-way only'. Someone can violate policy by driving in the opposite direction, but that would be a legal, not technical, matter.

Here is the structure of a DRAM cell...

http://jarnau.site.ac.upc.edu/NCD/03-Memory_Structures_2.pdf

Here is the structure of a NAND cell...

https://www.simms.co.uk/Uploads/Resources/50/f4366381-b992-425a-bec4-cca409b51a6c.pdf

No semicon engineer will risk reputational dishonor by PUBLICLY showing the difference between YMTC and Micron products and points: "Here is where the US government and Micron colluded and make this line of product collects data and transmit to the US government."

Why not? Because the technical capabilities are not there. BECAUSE SEMICON COMPANIES BUYS EACH OTHER'S PRODUCTS ALL THE TIME. If Micron's products have that technical capabilities, it would have been known DECADES ago when every semicon company was at the 80 nm and older nodes.

Can a router, a 'smart' TV, or a computer collects data and transmit without the user's knowledge? Yes. Those things are APPLIANCES that contains both H/W and S/W capabilities to do so. Tik-Tok is not h/w but s/w. Tik-Tok does not deny its s/w collects data but is trying to deny a POLICY of data collection and transmittal to the Chinese government. The app is able to do that because the HOST can do that, and that host is the cell phone.

Micron do not make appliances but memory components FOR appliances. Big technical difference and one that not even a Chinese semicon engineer will risk reputational dishonor and international mockery in trying to indict Micron at the technical level. Where are the PHYSICAL structures inside a Micron DRAM/NAND memory cell that does not exist in any Chinese semicon product that can collect data and transmit to the US government? There are none and China knows it.

Yes, Micron knows exactly what the Chinese goobermint's objections are and behind closed doors, the company, from the CEO down to the Production operators, are laughing their @55es off. Micron is being soft on China for business reasons that any CEO would understand.

 

[gambit]

Maybe Micron should take this to court, and let China present the evidence in court? That way everybody would know what the security problem is. But that seem not likely given Micron response.

That is hilarious. Let?

Micron is somehow preventing the Chinese government from presenting evidences OUTSIDE the legal and public realms? I have no idea the company is that powerful. More like the Chinese GOOBERMINT if Micron is that powerful.