China BAD

[Jango]

Us and them --

They are a tyranny: communism, their armed forces a police force that cannot help us, and they are ripping us off

How do Pakistanis respond?

What?

 

[muse]

Come on Nukilla - What is the response to this charge sheet?

 

[shuttler]

let's count the scenarios without China!

Are you going to run your economy with a surplus by buying weapons from usa, france, sweden, uk ahem russia - and forget about the possible embargoes!

Is there any country which can help you build your fighter jets, tanks and other weapons?

People in the indian and us camp will be delighted to see you break off from China that is why the indian round of cheerleading here!

 

[shuttler]

We have our internal problems
We are not democratic!

So fvvcking what?

is a democracy a gurantee for success and better lives?
look at your closest neighbour!

 

[Mugwop]

Dajia ren cong yingguo shitu tiao qi
False flagger

 

[muse]

let's count the scenarios without China!

Are you going to run your economy with a surplus by buying weapons from usa, france, sweden, uk ahem russia - and forget about the possible embargoes!

Is there any country which can help you build your fighter jets, tanks and other weapons?

People in the indian and us camp will be delighted to see you break off from China that is why the indian round of cheerleading here!

Easy == What should be happening is Pakistanis coming up with arguments in support and they are conspicuous by their absence - So what's going on? With friends like these Why should China need enemies?

Any way, the lead article is for Pakistanis to respond to -- yet all we see from them is befuddlement - the wages of living in lies

 

[Jango]

Come on Nukilla - What is the response to this charge sheet?

As shuttler said:

We have our internal problems
We are not democratic!

So fvvcking what?

That's my response.

Why mention China not being a democracy while discussing Pak-China relations?

 

[Audio]

the wages of living in lies

Funny. Your best friends do the same. You belong to each other. Match made in heaven.

 

[muse]

Another thing one must understand is that China imports $175 billion worth of electrical machinery, oil worth $85 billion, scientific instruments worth $50 billion and office machines worth $40 billion. Clearly, Pakistan has almost nothing that China needs. Pakistan's exports are more than 50 percent cotton and cotton-related, seven percent rice, six percent leather and two percent sporting goods.

Friends (Pakistanis?)

Are India exporting Office machines to China? Scientific equipment?? Electrical machinery? What is the volume of trade between India and China? Does China import food commodities? Does Pakistan export food commodities? How much food commodities does it export to China? Is China stopping Pakistan from trading more or from exporting more good and produce and minerals to China??

So who is to blame for the trade deficit??

 

[Chinese-Dragon]

Dajia ren cong yingguo shitu tiao qi
False flagger

Ni ren wei ta shi ying guo ren ma?

I don't think Muse is an agent provocateur. He seems to genuinely care about Pakistan, in his own way.

 

[shuttler]

Easy == What should be happening is Pakistanis coming up with arguments in support and they are conspicuous by their absence - So what's going on? With friends like these Why should China need enemies?

Any way, the lead article is for Pakistanis to respond to -- yet all we see from them is befuddlement - the wages of living in lies

There are alway contentious opinions in every society - regardless of the mode of governance

We cannot at the moment provide to Pakistanis a cover against the us drone attacks because as the OP un-intentionally leaked out, our acute internal problems are there, let alone the external pressures

If some factions in Pakistan have the viewpoint we are an untrusted friend then it is a pity and the biggest laughing stock

 

[BigDaddyWatch]

There are several things in this article that i notice.

In early 2011, as a consequence of an online call, Chinese demonstrators came out in large numbers in Beijing, Shanghai, Changchun, Changsha, Chengdu, Guangzhou, Hangzhou, Harbin, Nanjing, Shenyang, Tianjin, Wuhan and Xi'an. The slogan was the same everywhere: 'Accountability and transparency doesn't exist under the current one-party system'.

Huh, when did that happen ? There was a online call for protests in early 2011 and as far as i know virtuelly no one showed up. I think there was someone who threw some leaflets in Shanghai.

The next thing one must understand is that the PLA's 2.3 million active-duty personnel are overstretched – way overstretched – because of country-wide internal security duties. As a consequence, the PLA is neither structurally configured nor has the capacity to project Chinese power to foreign lands. In essence, the PLA's "domestic drag inhibits the PLA's ability to concentrate on external missions".

What the author of this article don't know is that the internal security duties of the PLA has largely been taken over by the People's Armed Police (PAP). The internal security role of the PLA is now very minimal. I think unless there is a massive crisis the PLA will stay in its barracks. The largest internal security duty that the PLA has these days is to help relieve natural disasters every summer.

The next thing one must understand is China's economic growth model. To be certain, China's economic growth model has been very successful but the model remains export-driven and export-dependent. The export-driven component of the model has made China's coastal population very prosperous, while others inland – a majority – remain relatively poor (a classic driver of conflict). The export-dependent component of the model has made China highly dependent on commercial sea lanes and thus dependent on the US Navy (as all commercial sea lanes in the South China Sea and the East China Sea are controlled by the Seventh Fleet).

First of all what's wrong with a export driven model of growth ? That's the same model as Japan and Germany. Is anyone saying that Japan and Germany have failed economic models ? Certainly we can't have a services and consumption led model like in the US, UK or India. Just look where those countries are today versus the exporting nations like China, Germany and Japan. That's not to say that there are no serious imbalances in the Chinese and the world economy that needs to be adressed. Its true that the US Navy is all over the world. They say is to "make the world save for trade". But save from whom ? From what ? The only threat to world trade are some pirates infront of the coast of Somalia and in the Straits of Malaca. And i think the author should take a trip to the inland areas of China too. Living standards there has been rising too. So much so that the coastal cities are now finding it difficult to attract migrant workers. Because people are able to stay closer to home for opportunities.

In effect, the Pak-China trade relationship is a one dimensional affair – China exports $10 billion worth of products every year to us but we have next to nothing that we can export to China. Shockingly, 40 percent of our entire trade deficit is the consequence of our bilateral trade with China.

He forgot to mention that Pakistan has benefitted from a lot of tech transfers coming from China and the fact that China has been building a lot of infrastructure in Pakistan either as donations or with soft loans. And the relationship between China and Pakistan goes much deeper then just economics. There is a huge strategic and security aspect to it as well. And if Pakistan doesn't import from China they will have to get those goods from somewhere else don't they ?

The next thing one must understand is that the PLA's official motto is to "guarantee the ruling position of the CPC". Officially, the top among PLA's five 'core values' is 'loyalty to the party'. In effect, the PLA's primary responsibility becomes the maintenance of the CPC's absolute monopoly over all forms of political power over every inch of China's 9.7 million square kilometres. In effect, the PLA "is not a national army that belongs to the state but rather an armed wing of the CPC". For the record, almost "all PLA officers are party members".

The PLA is there to protect China's sovereignty and territorial integrity just like any other military.

 

[muse]

Should have been written by a Pakistani but alas

 

[illusion8]

Should have been written by a Pakistani but alas

The opposite is written by a Pakistani - live with it.

 

[Audio]

Entire point of this thread was to create a bogeyman and then fish out the disaproving sentiments of Pakistanis as a token of loyalty and friendship?
lol @muse