China And Pakistan Beware -- This Week, India And US Sign Major War Pact

[Pathan khan]

Stealth. US is doing this to counter china and generating money out of india but india is doing it to counter Pakistan. China and to become super power by getting key technology..

USA is using india like ivan drago put on steriods giv it some trainng best equipment then once fight starts and it does not look promising then usa will leave the area. usa is far away it wont hurt them just like soviet afghan war it was pakistans job to clean up. This is what india must consider you can change friends but cant change neighbours. The chinese also can do thing like maybe crash the dollar as russians are trying.

if i was pak i target saudi oil fields - crash the dollar once for all. that make you the ultimate revolutionary ever.

There are billionaires in pakistan i think they should be forced to contribute towards survival prepper clubs / gun clubs training for youth and ederley for defence etc.

I disagree this time its not Afghanistan or Iraq it is China with whom US is messing up.
If so happen it will be world war 3. Because japan philphine vietnam india and usa are against china.
If Pakistan support china India and Afghanistan and most probably israeel are ready for Pakistan.
What American is trying to do is to spoil the enviroment of Asia as they have done in Arab Africa and Europe so that they can sell there weapons and retain the there supreamacy

 

[Azadkashmir]

Stealth. US is doing this to counter china and generating money out of india but india is doing it to counter Pakistan. China and to become super power by getting key technology..


I disagree this time its not Afghanistan or Iraq it is China with whom US is messing up.
If so happen it will be world war 3. Because japan philphine vietnam india and usa are against china.
If Pakistan support china India and Afghanistan and most probably israeel are ready for Pakistan.
What American is trying to do is to spoil the enviroment of Asia as they have done in Arab Africa and Europe so that they can sell there weapons and retain the there supreamacy

but what bout loans that usa has borrowed from china. i read that china has bought up ports and land in usa.
i dont think afghanistan will go aginst china i know they dont like pakistan but hey pakistan is thier bread too.

 

[aamirzs]

 

[wiseone2]

Stealth. US is doing this to counter china and generating money out of india but india is doing it to counter Pakistan. China and to become super power by getting key technology..


I disagree this time its not Afghanistan or Iraq it is China with whom US is messing up.
If so happen it will be world war 3. Because japan philphine vietnam india and usa are against china.
If Pakistan support china India and Afghanistan and most probably israeel are ready for Pakistan.
What American is trying to do is to spoil the enviroment of Asia as they have done in Arab Africa and Europe so that they can sell there weapons and retain the there supreamacy

China and USA are too smart to go to war

 

[Pathan khan]

but what bout loans that usa has borrowed from china. i read that china has bought up ports and land in usa.
i dont think afghanistan will go aginst china i know they dont like pakistan but hey pakistan is thier bread too.

China may have invested in USA and recently the same they have done in India too.but USA is a country which cannot be trusted.what they have done with saddam . Qaddifi. Pakistan and even gulf countries. They getting oil from there and have destabalized whole gulf just for oil.
US have much more debt to pay than us but there strong point is foreign reserve. Iternationally dollar is used as monetary currency.
As far as Afghanistan is concerned they can do any thing to destroy Pakistan.
U knw in 1947 Afghanistan was the only country that have not recognize Pakistan as a nation.

 

[Azadkashmir]

China may have invested in USA and recently the same they have done in India too.but USA is a country which cannot be trusted.what they have done with saddam . Qaddifi. Pakistan and even gulf countries. They getting oil from there and have destabalized whole gulf just for oil.
US have much more debt to pay than us but there strong point is foreign reserve. Iternationally dollar is used as monetary currency.
As far as Afghanistan is concerned they can do any thing to destroy Pakistan.
U knw in 1947 Afghanistan was the only country that have not recognize Pakistan as a nation.

yh i know that they did not reconize pakistan maybe it was due to imperialistic ambitions.
usa money is printed out of thin air and russian and chinese know it. arabs can forget about safe accounts they are in usa banks and i bet they are not going to get any of it, usa got free oil. Then thier is future land and water grab, we must protect whats ours.

The reason why they had to go was they were dropping the petro dollar to other currency. qaddafi took it further wanted halal tangible currency, that would have wiped the dollar out.
All for greater isreal expansion too.

i say arabs wasted thier wealth on stupidty, isreal is going to use bilogical weopens against the arab but what is the arab doing nothing much too much air conditing. A decent nato rated gas mask costs 360 pounds that nothing for arab. iphone costs 500 everyone must have one but still people dont invest in survival.

 

[tarrar]

Pakistan & China should sign a pact of their own. This move will counter US & India.

 

[Azadkashmir]

pakistan should try to pull turkey in as turkey and usa relationship is not gud now. then get turkey to work with russia bring them in. even germany wants out of usa grip.

 

[LeGenD]

This is leverage they try to create in nations where they might have interests, not charity. Its all done through economic hitmen and stooges. India being the soviet ally in cold war yet top recipient of USAID even surpassing Israel. And all this, the economic figures, are in pale to what we have done for them in region and beyond since 50s. We have done more then enough from our side, lets not try to create an impression that its been a one way street. Time to move on and if there has to be interaction with Americans, only when our national interests are served.

State-to-state relations are predominantly grounded in interests and/or shared objectives.

Do you think that Americans threaten us to accept their aid or else?

• Who requested loans from IMF? (Pakistani government)
• With whose permission, organizations like USAID operate in Pakistan? (Pakistani government)
• Why military establishment does not refuses American (military) aid? (such aid is used to buy arms and fund operations)

The aid we received from time-to-time was sufficient to sustain our needs and/or overhead expenses from time-to-time accordingly. Please keep in mind that grants are free but loans are to be repaid, and there should be a limit to how much we should borrow from others. We should strive for economic independence at any cost.

We haven't done anything extraordinary for the Americans so far, I'm afraid; we cooperated with them in the matters of Afghanistan because this was in our interest as well (each time). We desire a Afghanistan that is not hostile to our interests in the region. War on Terror granted us the perfect opportunity to eradicate all hostile elements in the region (local and foreign) and invest in neglected provinces such as Balochistan and Khyber Pakhtunkhwa. Our sacrifices for such a cause are not in vain and neither they should be construed as our services to the Americans.

Interaction with Americans is in our interests, my friend. This is my focal point. We simply cannot afford enmity with the US. A (friendly) US is absolutely necessary for CPEC to succeed. China cannot save us, should things go south.

Look at North Korea. Fancy it as our future? (Even with extraordinary Chinese backing, North Korea is a failed state)

Or

Look at South Korea. Fancy it as our future? (South Korea is on friendly terms with both US and China)

India

Contrary to popular belief, India adopted non-aligned stance during the Cold War era and officially joined this club in 1983. India was interested in forging a constructive relationship with both superpowers of the time. On the other hand, US had a soft corner for India since the latter's independence because US perceived it as an emerging market worth tapping at some point in the future; an assessment that is boring fruit in current times.

You assert that India is the top recipient of USAID but you overlooked another fact that China is relatively a much larger trading partner of India than Pakistan (in the terms of volume of exports and/or imports) in-spite of geopolitical friction between them. India is a huge economy and market, and cannot be ignored. Time to embrace this new reality (or) should we put forth a condition to China that they seize all trading activity with India if they want CPEC? Do you think China will entertain such a condition?

Times are changing. Its a silly notion that people will queue up for moving to America. I have personally known many who came to UK for the purpose of settling , yet went back to Pakistan after realities sunk in. Its a myth created through media and needs to be debunked.

You sure about that?

UK is a small country and already hosts a huge Muslim community; there is a limit to how many more it can accommodate. On the other hand, US is a huge country and welcomes immigration. Pakistani people are migrating to US in greater numbers than ever before, a fact brought to our attention by US census bureau itself.

FYI: http://www.dawn.com/news/732915/pakistanis-are-second-fastest-growing-race-in-us-says-report

So what do you think the American-Indian military pact is aimed for? Pakistan and China up till now have not mentioned anything which might suggest that there will be a military aspect to CPEC. Those military highups who might be a tiny bit more informed then myself and you, who are raising threats to CPEC by hostile nations, are they confused?

Do you know the terms and conditions of that pact?

Here are some details: http://www.defense.gov/News/Article/Article/604775

Do you see call for arms against CPEC initiative in the aforementioned disclosure?

I will explain to you what this game is all about. India is the largest importer of arms in the world at present. It is logical for American arms industry to tap this market and score some major deals there. To make this possible, US needs to forge a closer working relationship with Indian military establishment. In this manner, Americans would be able to convince Indian military to buy American arms without major concerns. US is willing to sell India its state-of-the-art F-35 aircraft and also offered India to manufacture F-16 aircraft domestically. These are serious offers, my friend.

Mate, its bit naive to think the oil will be replaced soon to other energy sources. As for the oil prices, it was manipulated to hurt the Russian economy. For the ME, their economy depends on their oil export. Even for the sake of argument, if west swtich over to other energy sources, for the sake of the ME and their economy survival, and I am not playing devil's advocate here, it make perfect sense for them to look for markets who are still relying on oil, and thats where China comes into picture. They are producing more cars the whole of Europe combined annually. It makes perfect sense for them to use CPEC for this purpose and sooner the transition they make the better for their own sake.

The shift to alternate sources of energy

Since the Industrial Revolution, mankind is making progress at a pace that was not possible in earlier times. Our way of life, business ethics and Industrial operations have changed a lot from the past and will change a lot in coming years. My area of expertise is Management Sciences, so mark my words.

Just 10 years ago, electric automobiles were mere prototypes and hardly anybody felt that they would become mainstream. Now, electric automobiles are poised to become mainstream and replace other cars on the roads worldwide.

Yes, the pace of shift to alternate sources of energy would vary from country to country but it will eventually happen. China is also taking steps towards this direction because this is the only way forward. Chinese solar energy related experiments are an example. Recently, China has granted Tesla permission to open a major factory in the country.

Why oil prices declined?

Oil prices weren't manipulated; they fell due to decline in demand of oil. US, in particular, significantly reduced its oil imports in recent years. Exorbitant oil prices drove US out of Iraq and fueled inflation in many countries (including Pakistan).

Russian economy took a hit due to sanctions imposed on it by the US due to its intervention in Ukraine.

Yes, economy of ME largely depends upon oil exports at present. However, ME states are also waking-up and exploring ways to diversify their economic activities. For example, UAE is marketing itself as a major tourist spot in the region.

Even Saudi Arabia is recognizing the importance of establishing domestic industry and less reliance on oil exports to sustain its economy in the near future. FYI: http://www.mckinsey.com/global-themes/employment-and-growth/moving-saudi-arabias-economy-beyond-oil

The China factor

Chinese oil imports continue to fluctuate, not consistently growing. Even if the over-all demand of oil has increased in China with passage of time, it can offer temporary relief to OPEC in this regard. China wants to tap ME markets and CPEC is the shortest route to ME.

Militarization of Arabian Sea and Indian ocean is well on the way after America-Indian pact. We just need to respond to it. and if we dont we will be shooting on our own foot. Mind you, this is something that we didnt started. Your argument is basically no argument.

See above

My argument is that a friendly (US) is really important for CPEC to succeed; militarization of CPEC would not address our issues. Look at the example of North Korea. God forbid, should things go South for us, don't expect China to fight our wars.

Time to highlight another ground-reality; CPEC is just a component of China's global silk-route (economic) initiative. As expected from a sensible state, China is not putting all of its eggs in the same basket.

Have a look:

Source: http://china-trade-research.hktdc.c...ad-Initiative/obor/en/1/1X000000/1X0A36B7.htm

My argument is just as valid as any other argument and should not be overlooked. We should invite US to invest in Pakistan just like we did with China! This is a much better way to secure our interests than militarization.

I agree, we cant be seen China centric and that why we are developing relationship with Russia. As for America, we need to keep them at arms length with bear minimum contact. They are going back in their shell, they successfully pissed off Pakistanis, Turkish, Arabs and even Europeans are questioning them with the mutual trade agreements and what not.

Thankfully, we agree on something but you still do not get it entirely.

Developing relations with Russia is a welcome move (we should have made this move long ago) but don't expect Russia to be our friends or ditch India anytime soon (or perhaps ever). More importantly, we cannot afford to alienate the WEST. And US represents the WEST, like it or not.

Turkey? When Turkey will leave NATO, give me a call. Till then, Tayyip Erdogan's aggressive posturing is toothless.

Europeans will not drop NATO either! Not anytime soon. Russia is a bane for them.

People question trade agreements all the time. This doesn't implies that NATO is coming apart. Europe has always maintained some level of economic independence but European states are not ditching trade relations with the US for some disagreements. If there are valid disagreements, the contracts will be re-defined.

 

[LeGenD]

Yes you did.

No, I didn't and neither that was my intention.

I highlighted the reasons for American focus on India. Nothing wrong with this.

As far as the peacemaker term is concerned, neither US and nor China quality for it. Both states are troublemakers for some.

Did you not say something about fear-mongering? I just showed to you what fear-mongering is.

You misread the context.

However, I shall give your point the benefit-of-doubt. Was fear-mongering productive for US-Iraq relations? It led to misunderstanding and war between the two states and Iraq is now in ruins. Now, don't tell me that Saddam Hussein was a saint in all of this. He started it in 1990s.

Similarly, fear-mongering is not productive for South Asian countries. It leads to sectarian divisions (internally) and fuels misunderstandings (externally).

It is the other way round, it seems like you got something against me for plainly pointing out what the US is to us.

Us? There is no 'us' in the matters of geopolitics. Your country pursues its interests and mine pursues its own. However, as an educated Pakistani, it is my responsibility to bring sanity in discussions and give suggestions that can be productive for my nation in the long-term. You have the right to your opinion but you don't call the shots in Pakistan or speak for 'us'.

At maximum, you have my respect and sympathies for being a Muslim.

Tell your American friends to do something constructive at home instead of propping up thuggish regimes around the globe. It's just a brotherly advice you can give to your American brothers, I think I have plenty of true brothers, I don't need one in you. You know, it's funny how you wave the Pakistani flag to display your 'patriotism', I hope you don't mind telling you this.

Last time I checked, US is a developed country and has stabilized its surrounding regions.

My sense of patriotism (it comes naturally to me) is not grounded in Anti-American sentiments and neither it should be. Just like any other fellow Pakistani, I desire a stable and prosperous Pakistan. I want to live and thrive in Pakistan in-spite of suggestions to the contrary. However, I am a pragmatic individual, not a Zaid Hamid type.

Yes, US needs to stop meddling in the affairs of other states without solid grounds. As an example, the recent US-led war in Iraq was an unwarranted aggression and could be avoided. This is why I appreciate American efforts to address Iranian issues through diplomatic channels; they eventually bore fruit. On the other hand, Iranian leadership took a wise decision by reaching an understanding with the US; they realized that they would stand alone should war come to them. Iranian leadership turned out to be more pragmatic than Arabs.

Nonetheless, any advice for bad apples in the Islamic bloc? Or you are interested in US bashing only?

 

[Arsalan]

Whats in it for us to be aware of? this really changes nothing much for us. However this do signals the major shift in geopolitical alliances in the region that we have ben hearing, reading and talking about for quite some time now.

The only concern for me is that we do get the maximum out of this shift. We will need to show clear intention and commitment to gain anything from the shift. Gov. can start by appointing a full time foreign minister may be.

 

[wiseone2]

State-to-state relations are predominantly grounded in interests and/or shared objectives.

Do you think that Americans threaten us to accept their aid or else?

• Who requested loans from IMF? (Pakistani government)
• With whose permission, organizations like USAID operate in Pakistan? (Pakistani government)
• Why military establishment does not refuses American (military) aid? (such aid is used to buy arms and fund operations)

The aid we received from time-to-time was sufficient to sustain our needs and/or overhead expenses from time-to-time accordingly. Please keep in mind that grants are free but loans are to be repaid, and there should be a limit to how much we should borrow from others. We should strive for economic independence at any cost.

We haven't done anything extraordinary for the Americans so far, I'm afraid; we cooperated with them in the matters of Afghanistan because this was in our interest as well (each time). We desire a Afghanistan that is not hostile to our interests in the region. War on Terror granted us the perfect opportunity to eradicate all hostile elements in the region (local and foreign) and invest in neglected provinces such as Balochistan and Khyber Pakhtunkhwa. Our sacrifices for such a cause are not in vain and neither they should be construed as our services to the Americans.

Interaction with Americans is in our interests, my friend. This is my focal point. We simply cannot afford enmity with the US. A (friendly) US is absolutely necessary for CPEC to succeed. China cannot save us, should things go south.

Look at North Korea. Fancy it as our future? (Even with extraordinary Chinese backing, North Korea is a failed state)

Or

Look at South Korea. Fancy it as our future? (South Korea is on friendly terms with both US and China)

India

Contrary to popular belief, India adopted non-aligned stance during the Cold War era and officially joined this club in 1983. India was interested in forging a constructive relationship with both superpowers of the time. On the other hand, US had a soft corner for India since the latter's independence because US perceived it as an emerging market worth tapping at some point in the future; an assessment that is boring fruit in current times.

You assert that India is the top recipient of USAID but you overlooked another fact that China is relatively a much larger trading partner of India than Pakistan (in the terms of volume of exports and/or imports) in-spite of geopolitical friction between them. India is a huge economy and market, and cannot be ignored. Time to embrace this new reality (or) should we put forth a condition to China that they seize all trading activity with India if they want CPEC? Do you think China will entertain such a condition?


You sure about that?

UK is a small country and already hosts a huge Muslim community; there is a limit to how many more it can accommodate. On the other hand, US is a huge country and welcomes immigration. Pakistani people are migrating to US in greater numbers than ever before, a fact brought to our attention by US census bureau itself.

FYI: http://www.dawn.com/news/732915/pakistanis-are-second-fastest-growing-race-in-us-says-report


Do you know the terms and conditions of that pact?

Here are some details: http://www.defense.gov/News/Article/Article/604775

Do you see call for arms against CPEC initiative in the aforementioned disclosure?

I will explain to you what this game is all about. India is the largest importer of arms in the world at present. It is logical for American arms industry to tap this market and score some major deals there. To make this possible, US needs to forge a closer working relationship with Indian military establishment. In this manner, Americans would be able to convince Indian military to buy American arms without major concerns. US is willing to sell India its state-of-the-art F-35 aircraft and also offered India to manufacture F-16 aircraft domestically. These are serious offers, my friend.


The shift to alternate sources of energy

Since the Industrial Revolution, mankind is making progress at a pace that was not possible in earlier times. Our way of life, business ethics and Industrial operations have changed a lot from the past and will change a lot in coming years. My area of expertise is Management Sciences, so mark my words.

Just 10 years ago, electric automobiles were mere prototypes and hardly anybody felt that they would become mainstream. Now, electric automobiles are poised to become mainstream and replace other cars on the roads worldwide.

Yes, the pace of shift to alternate sources of energy would vary from country to country but it will eventually happen. China is also taking steps towards this direction because this is the only way forward. Chinese solar energy related experiments are an example. Recently, China has granted Tesla permission to open a major factory in the country.

Why oil prices declined?

Oil prices weren't manipulated; they fell due to decline in demand of oil. US, in particular, significantly reduced its oil imports in recent years. Exorbitant oil prices drove US out of Iraq and fueled inflation in many countries (including Pakistan).

Russian economy took a hit due to sanctions imposed on it by the US due to its intervention in Ukraine.

Yes, economy of ME largely depends upon oil exports at present. However, ME states are also waking-up and exploring ways to diversify their economic activities. For example, UAE is marketing itself as a major tourist spot in the region.

Even Saudi Arabia is recognizing the importance of establishing domestic industry and less reliance on oil exports to sustain its economy in the near future. FYI: http://www.mckinsey.com/global-themes/employment-and-growth/moving-saudi-arabias-economy-beyond-oil

The China factor

Chinese oil imports continue to fluctuate, not consistently growing. Even if the over-all demand of oil has increased in China with passage of time, it can offer temporary relief to OPEC in this regard. China wants to tap ME markets and CPEC is the shortest route to ME.


See above

My argument is that a friendly (US) is really important for CPEC to succeed; militarization of CPEC would not address our issues. Look at the example of North Korea. God forbid, should things go South for us, don't expect China to fight our wars.

Time to highlight another ground-reality; CPEC is just a component of China's global silk-route (economic) initiative. As expected from a sensible state, China is not putting all of its eggs in the same basket.

Have a look:

Source: http://china-trade-research.hktdc.c...ad-Initiative/obor/en/1/1X000000/1X0A36B7.htm

My argument is just as valid as any other argument and should not be overlooked. We should invite US to invest in Pakistan just like we did with China! This is a much better way to secure our interests than militarization.


Thankfully, we agree on something but you still do not get it entirely.

Developing relations with Russia is a welcome move (we should have made this move long ago) but don't expect Russia to be our friends or ditch India anytime soon (or perhaps ever). More importantly, we cannot afford to alienate the WEST. And US represents the WEST, like it or not.

Turkey? When Turkey will leave NATO, give me a call. Till then, Tayyip Erdogan's aggressive posturing is toothless.

Europeans will not drop NATO either! Not anytime soon. Russia is a bane for them.

People question trade agreements all the time. This doesn't implies that NATO is coming apart. Europe has always maintained some level of economic independence but European states are not ditching trade relations with the US for some disagreements. If there are valid disagreements, the contracts will be re-defined.

sane arguments for a change

Whats in it for us to be aware of? this really changes nothing much for us. However this do signals the major shift in geopolitical alliances in the region that we have ben hearing, reading and talking about for quite some time now.

The only concern for me is that we do get the maximum out of this shift. We will need to show clear intention and commitment to gain anything from the shift. Gov. can start by appointing a full time foreign minister may be.

Not much has changed. some time change is in slow motion

 

[T-Rex]

State-to-state relations are predominantly grounded in interests and/or shared objectives.

Do you think that Americans threaten us to accept their aid or else?

• Who requested loans from IMF? (Pakistani government)
• With whose permission, organizations like USAID operate in Pakistan? (Pakistani government)
• Why military establishment does not refuses American (military) aid? (such aid is used to buy arms and fund operations)

The aid we received from time-to-time was sufficient to sustain our needs and/or overhead expenses from time-to-time accordingly. Please keep in mind that grants are free but loans are to be repaid, and there should be a limit to how much we should borrow from others. We should strive for economic independence at any cost.

We haven't done anything extraordinary for the Americans so far, I'm afraid; we cooperated with them in the matters of Afghanistan because this was in our interest as well (each time). We desire a Afghanistan that is not hostile to our interests in the region. War on Terror granted us the perfect opportunity to eradicate all hostile elements in the region (local and foreign) and invest in neglected provinces such as Balochistan and Khyber Pakhtunkhwa. Our sacrifices for such a cause are not in vain and neither they should be construed as our services to the Americans.

Interaction with Americans is in our interests, my friend. This is my focal point. We simply cannot afford enmity with the US. A (friendly) US is absolutely necessary for CPEC to succeed. China cannot save us, should things go south.

Look at North Korea. Fancy it as our future? (Even with extraordinary Chinese backing, North Korea is a failed state)

Or

Look at South Korea. Fancy it as our future? (South Korea is on friendly terms with both US and China)

India

Contrary to popular belief, India adopted non-aligned stance during the Cold War era and officially joined this club in 1983. India was interested in forging a constructive relationship with both superpowers of the time. On the other hand, US had a soft corner for India since the latter's independence because US perceived it as an emerging market worth tapping at some point in the future; an assessment that is boring fruit in current times.

You assert that India is the top recipient of USAID but you overlooked another fact that China is relatively a much larger trading partner of India than Pakistan (in the terms of volume of exports and/or imports) in-spite of geopolitical friction between them. India is a huge economy and market, and cannot be ignored. Time to embrace this new reality (or) should we put forth a condition to China that they seize all trading activity with India if they want CPEC? Do you think China will entertain such a condition?


You sure about that?

UK is a small country and already hosts a huge Muslim community; there is a limit to how many more it can accommodate. On the other hand, US is a huge country and welcomes immigration. Pakistani people are migrating to US in greater numbers than ever before, a fact brought to our attention by US census bureau itself.

FYI: http://www.dawn.com/news/732915/pakistanis-are-second-fastest-growing-race-in-us-says-report


Do you know the terms and conditions of that pact?

Here are some details: http://www.defense.gov/News/Article/Article/604775

Do you see call for arms against CPEC initiative in the aforementioned disclosure?

I will explain to you what this game is all about. India is the largest importer of arms in the world at present. It is logical for American arms industry to tap this market and score some major deals there. To make this possible, US needs to forge a closer working relationship with Indian military establishment. In this manner, Americans would be able to convince Indian military to buy American arms without major concerns. US is willing to sell India its state-of-the-art F-35 aircraft and also offered India to manufacture F-16 aircraft domestically. These are serious offers, my friend.


The shift to alternate sources of energy

Since the Industrial Revolution, mankind is making progress at a pace that was not possible in earlier times. Our way of life, business ethics and Industrial operations have changed a lot from the past and will change a lot in coming years. My area of expertise is Management Sciences, so mark my words.

Just 10 years ago, electric automobiles were mere prototypes and hardly anybody felt that they would become mainstream. Now, electric automobiles are poised to become mainstream and replace other cars on the roads worldwide.

Yes, the pace of shift to alternate sources of energy would vary from country to country but it will eventually happen. China is also taking steps towards this direction because this is the only way forward. Chinese solar energy related experiments are an example. Recently, China has granted Tesla permission to open a major factory in the country.

Why oil prices declined?

Oil prices weren't manipulated; they fell due to decline in demand of oil. US, in particular, significantly reduced its oil imports in recent years. Exorbitant oil prices drove US out of Iraq and fueled inflation in many countries (including Pakistan).

Russian economy took a hit due to sanctions imposed on it by the US due to its intervention in Ukraine.

Yes, economy of ME largely depends upon oil exports at present. However, ME states are also waking-up and exploring ways to diversify their economic activities. For example, UAE is marketing itself as a major tourist spot in the region.

Even Saudi Arabia is recognizing the importance of establishing domestic industry and less reliance on oil exports to sustain its economy in the near future. FYI: http://www.mckinsey.com/global-themes/employment-and-growth/moving-saudi-arabias-economy-beyond-oil

The China factor

Chinese oil imports continue to fluctuate, not consistently growing. Even if the over-all demand of oil has increased in China with passage of time, it can offer temporary relief to OPEC in this regard. China wants to tap ME markets and CPEC is the shortest route to ME.


See above

My argument is that a friendly (US) is really important for CPEC to succeed; militarization of CPEC would not address our issues. Look at the example of North Korea. God forbid, should things go South for us, don't expect China to fight our wars.

Time to highlight another ground-reality; CPEC is just a component of China's global silk-route (economic) initiative. As expected from a sensible state, China is not putting all of its eggs in the same basket.

Have a look:

Source: http://china-trade-research.hktdc.c...ad-Initiative/obor/en/1/1X000000/1X0A36B7.htm

My argument is just as valid as any other argument and should not be overlooked. We should invite US to invest in Pakistan just like we did with China! This is a much better way to secure our interests than militarization.


Thankfully, we agree on something but you still do not get it entirely.

Developing relations with Russia is a welcome move (we should have made this move long ago) but don't expect Russia to be our friends or ditch India anytime soon (or perhaps ever). More importantly, we cannot afford to alienate the WEST. And US represents the WEST, like it or not.

Turkey? When Turkey will leave NATO, give me a call. Till then, Tayyip Erdogan's aggressive posturing is toothless.

Europeans will not drop NATO either! Not anytime soon. Russia is a bane for them.

People question trade agreements all the time. This doesn't implies that NATO is coming apart. Europe has always maintained some level of economic independence but European states are not ditching trade relations with the US for some disagreements. If there are valid disagreements, the contracts will be re-defined.

Your allegiance to the US is beyond any doubt. Nobody has done anything extra ordinary for the US but the US has done everything for those whose basic rights are being violated on daily basis for the sake of the US interest. Give it a break, don't try to tell us that billions of people point the finger at the US for their misery just for the sake of meanness. We understand what you mean by friendly US and what you expect from Pakistan and we understand who you're speaking for. Of course US poodles like you are trying their best to keep Pakistan in shackles of the US but I think it's too late. US treachery in Pakistan is too obvious to the people of Pakistan, it won't make any difference if I speak for Pakistan or not but one thing for sure the days of the US poodles like you are numbered in Pakistan as it is in Turkey. Those days are not too far when these US poodles will be kicked day in day out the way they are doing it in Turkey.

 

[Hassan Guy]

India takes the L once again

 

[Taimoor Khan]

State-to-state relations are predominantly grounded in interests and/or shared objectives.

Do you think that Americans threaten us to accept their aid or else?

• Who requested loans from IMF? (Pakistani government)
• With whose permission, organizations like USAID operate in Pakistan? (Pakistani government)
• Why military establishment does not refuses American (military) aid? (such aid is used to buy arms and fund operations)

The aid we received from time-to-time was sufficient to sustain our needs and/or overhead expenses from time-to-time accordingly. Please keep in mind that grants are free but loans are to be repaid, and there should be a limit to how much we should borrow from others. We should strive for economic independence at any cost.

We haven't done anything extraordinary for the Americans so far, I'm afraid; we cooperated with them in the matters of Afghanistan because this was in our interest as well (each time). We desire a Afghanistan that is not hostile to our interests in the region. War on Terror granted us the perfect opportunity to eradicate all hostile elements in the region (local and foreign) and invest in neglected provinces such as Balochistan and Khyber Pakhtunkhwa. Our sacrifices for such a cause are not in vain and neither they should be construed as our services to the Americans.

Interaction with Americans is in our interests, my friend. This is my focal point. We simply cannot afford enmity with the US. A (friendly) US is absolutely necessary for CPEC to succeed. China cannot save us, should things go south.

Look at North Korea. Fancy it as our future? (Even with extraordinary Chinese backing, North Korea is a failed state)

Or

Look at South Korea. Fancy it as our future? (South Korea is on friendly terms with both US and China)

India

Contrary to popular belief, India adopted non-aligned stance during the Cold War era and officially joined this club in 1983. India was interested in forging a constructive relationship with both superpowers of the time. On the other hand, US had a soft corner for India since the latter's independence because US perceived it as an emerging market worth tapping at some point in the future; an assessment that is boring fruit in current times.

You assert that India is the top recipient of USAID but you overlooked another fact that China is relatively a much larger trading partner of India than Pakistan (in the terms of volume of exports and/or imports) in-spite of geopolitical friction between them. India is a huge economy and market, and cannot be ignored. Time to embrace this new reality (or) should we put forth a condition to China that they seize all trading activity with India if they want CPEC? Do you think China will entertain such a condition?

Hence the word I use economic hitmen. I am sure you are aware of who these people are. We have seen our share of these lot. Create economic dependency with a forigen entity and control it remotely.

We have put our security at grave risk for the sake of America since 50s and you think we havent done anything? We nearly started WW3 after the Gary power U2 was shoot down and I am sure you must be aware as to where it took off from. We keep American interests intact here in this region for decades all the way till the end of Afghan soviet war. All this time, name me one American corporation setting up business and infra here, doing trade and commerce just like they are propelling India these days. We went openly with them in their military alliance of ceto and cento, burning all bridges with the other pole of the geopolitics of that time. No sir, we have done more then our share and got peanuts in return and internal instability. In hindsight, it seems it was a wrong decision back in 50s to side with America. We should have kept a neutral stance. But knowing America, even today, they are breathing down the necks of their anglo saxon cousins, the Aussies to pick sides between them and Chinese. You are dealing with sick people my friend. Understand their mental state.

Its not us who are picking fights with yanks its them who are constantly going against the interests of Pakistan. I am sure you have heard the recent rants coming from yanks , and of all places, while their forigen minister was in India! Its not a rocket science my friend, time has changed , we should as well. Geopolitical landscape is changing rapidly, so should we. And trust me, of all states, along side India, its America who would leave no stone unturned to see CPEC collapse, because all signs are pointing towards their uneasiness of Chinese power and clout in global affairs, a fact they cannot swallow. CPEC gives Chinese as escape route and a checkmate to American Asia pivot doctrine in south China sea. They want to contain China and China is refusing to be contained. We are just taking advantage of this rivalry after being back stabbed by yanks on countless occasions. And yea dont worry about China, we are ugly, strong and big enough to stand on us if things do go south. Yanks and their notorious secret services have done all they can while being entrenching inside Afghanistan. NO ONE, even a super power will start a war with another nuclear armed nation. I dont know how the example of north Korea is related to this region. Different dynamics all together.


When did I give any impression that India wasnt the blue eyed boy of the yanks. They have always been , the ones who carried on the legacy of colonialism. While our relationship at best are of marriage of convenience. A marriage gone horribly wrong. And for the sake of sanity, its best to part ways, be happy in our own space, and keep each other at arms length. I cant think think of any better example then this .

You ask about the trade between China and India. Allow me to ask you, do you know the trade volume between China and America? Care to explain the why American and China at loggerheads at the moment despite this? My friend, its a very naive way to look at trade and economy from plain business point of view. I mentioned economic hitmen at the beginning. Economic power is the way to control things. The original Rothchild very famously said, that I dont care who rule England, as long as I control the economy. China if ingressing India with its economical muscle, why would that be of any concern to me as a Pakistan. It give China, Pakistan strategic partner a leverage over India. It can only be good for us! Its the same strategy China employed against America, the economic muscle backed with sufficient military projection to have yanks by their balls. While I understand where you coming from and you may find plenty of people with limited understanding to agree with your point of view, I would politely disagree.

You sure about that?

UK is a small country and already hosts a huge Muslim community; there is a limit to how many more it can accommodate. On the other hand, US is a huge country and welcomes immigration. Pakistani people are migrating to US in greater numbers than ever before, a fact brought to our attention by US census bureau itself.

FYI: http://www.dawn.com/news/732915/pakistanis-are-second-fastest-growing-race-in-us-says-report

Again its a very debatable topic. As I said, I have known many who thought grass is greener on the other side, came to senses pretty soon, pack their bags and went back to Pakistan.

Do you know the terms and conditions of that pact?

Here are some details: http://www.defense.gov/News/Article/Article/604775

Do you see call for arms against CPEC initiative in the aforementioned disclosure?

I will explain to you what this game is all about. India is the largest importer of arms in the world at present. It is logical for American arms industry to tap this market and score some major deals there. To make this possible, US needs to forge a closer working relationship with Indian military establishment. In this manner, Americans would be able to convince Indian military to buy American arms without major concerns. US is willing to sell India its state-of-the-art F-35 aircraft and also offered India to manufacture F-16 aircraft domestically. These are serious offers, my friend.

The "game" you mentioned is something, if I am brutally honest, should be very worried about as of all people it effects me and my country security the most. I am surprised you are taking it as a game. Who these military acquisitions are going to be used against? China??

This is today news:

http://www.dawn.com/news/1281511/us-india-pact-shouldnt-disturb-strategic-balance-in-s-asia-fo

US-India pact shouldn’t disturb strategic balance in S. Asia: FO


You see my friend, our deep state , do not agree with your assessments. Army cheif mentions the "others" in his yesterdays remarks along with Modi and RAW who are conspiring against CPEC. Connect the dots and picture becomes clear.

The shift to alternate sources of energy

Since the Industrial Revolution, mankind is making progress at a pace that was not possible in earlier times. Our way of life, business ethics and Industrial operations have changed a lot from the past and will change a lot in coming years. My area of expertise is Management Sciences, so mark my words.

Just 10 years ago, electric automobiles were mere prototypes and hardly anybody felt that they would become mainstream. Now, electric automobiles are poised to become mainstream and replace other cars on the roads worldwide.

Yes, the pace of shift to alternate sources of energy would vary from country to country but it will eventually happen. China is also taking steps towards this direction because this is the only way forward. Chinese solar energy related experiments are an example. Recently, China has granted Tesla permission to open a major factory in the country.

Why oil prices declined?

Oil prices weren't manipulated; they fell due to decline in demand of oil. US, in particular, significantly reduced its oil imports in recent years. Exorbitant oil prices drove US out of Iraq and fueled inflation in many countries (including Pakistan).

Russian economy took a hit due to sanctions imposed on it by the US due to its intervention in Ukraine.

Yes, economy of ME largely depends upon oil exports at present. However, ME states are also waking-up and exploring ways to diversify their economic activities. For example, UAE is marketing itself as a major tourist spot in the region.

Even Saudi Arabia is recognizing the importance of establishing domestic industry and less reliance on oil exports to sustain its economy in the near future. FYI: http://www.mckinsey.com/global-themes/employment-and-growth/moving-saudi-arabias-economy-beyond-oil

The China factor

Chinese oil imports continue to fluctuate, not consistently growing. Even if the over-all demand of oil has increased in China with passage of time, it can offer temporary relief to OPEC in this regard. China wants to tap ME markets and CPEC is the shortest route to ME.

The E-cars are a luxury atm even in west. It will take donkey years for the world at large to be revolutionized and go all electric. Technology to begin hasnt matured. Telsa can give you at max I think 200 miles on a full battery and after that you have to find your nearest power station. My friend got the latest Audi E-tron which give like 30 miles and after that have to switch over to petrol. While its welcome step, even in western world, it will take atleast a decade for e-cars to start have a significant impact but for the rest of the world specially Asia where most of the population lives, it is still lights years away. So yea , oil isnt going anywhere in near future my friend.

It is a well established fact the oil prices were artificially manipulated at the time when Russia was challenged over Ukrainian issue. You might want to believe otherwise , you are fully entitled to your opinion .

You know why Dubai is "different" from the rest, even within UAE? Because they dont have oil. They actually are in debt to Abu Dhabi. It is their necessity to be different. They dont have plan B. Saudis as of yet dont have plan B either and are totally reliant on oil exports and for them to have plan B they need plenty of time to build the necessary infra and industries but as you mentioned that American are importing less oil, and on the other hand, ignoring Saudi interests in greater middle east, it is becoming necessity for Saudis to look for alternate markets of their oil and that is where CPEC comes into picture and huge Chinese domestic market which can easily replace American market. Why do you think the defacto Saudi king was burning mid night oil in Islamabad few days ago and went straight to Beijing from Islamabad?

See above

My argument is that a friendly (US) is really important for CPEC to succeed; militarization of CPEC would not address our issues. Look at the example of North Korea. God forbid, should things go South for us, don't expect China to fight our wars.

Time to highlight another ground-reality; CPEC is just a component of China's global silk-route (economic) initiative. As expected from a sensible state, China is not putting all of its eggs in the same basket.

Have a look:

Source: http://china-trade-research.hktdc.c...ad-Initiative/obor/en/1/1X000000/1X0A36B7.htm

My argument is just as valid as any other argument and should not be overlooked. We should invite US to invest in Pakistan just like we did with China! This is a much better way to secure our interests than militarization.

You are hoping agains the hope and coming across as someone who hasnt learned from the history of Pakistan-American relations . Mark my words, there wont be any "friendly" America as far as CPEC goes because it challanges their global hegemony and their hold over ME and its resources. We need to be very clear in minds about this fact. Militrazation in modern warfare doesnt mean that you have to fight straight away, Its about area denial. We have to ensure that our trade lines specially the ones for CPEC are secure from any third party including America.

Wrong my friend. CPEC is the "pilot project" for OBOR. You said you are in management. I hope you understand what pilot project means. . If it fails, nothing will go past it. In nutshell.

Thankfully, we agree on something but you still do not get it entirely.

Developing relations with Russia is a welcome move (we should have made this move long ago) but don't expect Russia to be our friends or ditch India anytime soon (or perhaps ever). More importantly, we cannot afford to alienate the WEST. And US represents the WEST, like it or not.

Turkey? When Turkey will leave NATO, give me a call. Till then, Tayyip Erdogan's aggressive posturing is toothless.

Europeans will not drop NATO either! Not anytime soon. Russia is a bane for them.

People question trade agreements all the time. This doesn't implies that NATO is coming apart. Europe has always maintained some level of economic independence but European states are not ditching trade relations with the US for some disagreements. If there are valid disagreements, the contracts will be re-defined.

This is the issue that has been fed to us Paksitanis that we tend to look for "what ifs". We are big and ugly enough to do whatever we want. Our relations with Russia for mutual benefits and I would go as far as inviting them to CPEC if that already havent been offered. After all they felt the vulnerability after the Ukraine and Turkish crisis and black sea for time being was turning into a no go area for them. We can give them alternate route for sure. So where does India comes into picture? We dont give sh|t if Russia dump them or not, it doesnt bother us, not our concern. Russians are mature enough to understand where India priorities lies after jumping into uncle sam lap. As for Turkey, they are going through the phase which we went after 9/11 when we were hit by "forigen sponsored" terrorism which is still ongoing from Afghan soil, which eventually lead to the hate you see for America in Pakistani masses. They might leave NATO or not, but their population is now openly exhibiting anti-America sentiments and if that shouldnt ring alarm bells then I think America is run by fools.


Always remember this very famous statement by Henry kissenger:

“It may be dangerous to be America’s enemy, but to be America’s friend is fatal”


Have we still not learned anything? I am not against the america as a country or its people. BUT if you dont know the maniacs who control America from the shadows, its very hard to explain to people who are still "optimistic" about the Pak-America relationship. What I am saying that neither make them your enemy or your friend, just keep them at arms length.