China All Su-35 news

[Akasa]

Yeah you could doubt anything, so do I.
There's chance that J-11D, J-16, J20 developers can't make sure about the time of mass production.
A design always look advance in paper, the real performance is more important, and it seem that they can't make sure that on J-11D, J16, J20, J31... atm.
While Su-35 is the lively advanced design, although it's not new.

24x Su-35, equally an air squadron quantity, similar to S-300/S-400 purchase, could deploy to the most important site of China.
If the performance of Su-35 is as expected, we could expect there's next orders.
24x is normal quantity for first order.

And I am wrong to conclude Su-35 delivered on or about 2018-2020.
Maybe China ordered small quantity 24x for fast delivery, we expect in 2017.

Nothing suggests that the engineers aren't confident in the performance of the J-11D, J-16, or J-20? Likewise, nothing hints that their specifications aren't how they appear on paper.

 

[BoQ77]

Nothing suggests that the engineers aren't confident in the performance of the J-11D, J-16, or J-20? Likewise, nothing hints that their specifications aren't how they appear on paper.

Yes. But they are not DONE.
So why we don't make a guess. When China DONE 24X of J-11D, J-16, J-20 ?

 

[Akasa]

Yes. But it's not DONE.
So why we don't make a guess. When China DONE 24X of J-11D, J-16, J-20 ?

J-16 is being built while J-11D and J-20 are in testing. That's irrelevant to your previous point.

 

[BoQ77]

J-16 is being built while J-11D and J-20 are in testing. That's irrelevant to your previous point.

You misunderstand that I said any design with optimum parameters always come first on paper, developers would try their best to make them real, and it takes time to do so. Now we don't know how much time for those to be DONE.

The duration could be few years, 10 years or decades.
So we can't claim an incomplete design is better or equal to an existed design. Even F-15 vs Su-30, Su-35 ... it's hard to make conclusion.

Another fact, the best fighters could defend China today or tomorrow is Su-30MK2, also come with quantity 24x. To outsiders, J-16 is copy variant of Su-30MK2 which was delivered to China 12 years ago. While Su-35 is modernized variant of Su-27/Su-30.

 

[Akasa]

You misunderstand that I said any design with optimum parameters always come first on paper, developers would try their best to make them real, and it takes time to do so. Now we don't know how much time for those to be DONE.

The duration could be few years, 10 years or decades.
So we can't claim an incomplete design is better or equal to an existed design. Even F-15 vs Su-30, Su-35 ... it's hard to make conclusion.

It is already real. The J-11X and 5th gen fighters are all flying.

Another fact, the best fighters could defend China today or tomorrow is Su-30MK2, also come with quantity 24x. To outsiders, J-16 is copy variant of Su-30MK2 which was delivered to China 12 years ago. While Su-35 is modernized variant of Su-27/Su-30.

The Su-30MK2 have been superseded by the J-16, J-15S, and even JH-7A in some respects.

 

[BoQ77]

It is already real. The J-11X and 5th gen fighters are all flying.



The Su-30MK2 have been superseded by the J-16, J-15S, and even JH-7A in some respects.

Red can't prove they are flying at optimum configuration. And they aren't. Like Pak-FA has been flying for a while.

Blue "aspects" ? how you know? btw, "some aspects" can't make them looks clearly better than 24x Su-30MK2 serving in an air squadron.

 

[Akasa]

Red can't prove they are flying at optimum configuration. And they aren't.
Blue "aspects" ? how you know? btw, "some aspects" can't make them looks clearly better than 24x Su-30MK2 serving in an air squadron.

What is "optimum configuration"? "In some respects" was what I said, because while the Su-30MK2 is still serving in the PLAN, their role has been gradually dimished and superseded by front-line aircraft such as the J-11BH, J-15S, J-16, or JH-7A.

 

[BoQ77]

What is "optimum configuration"? "In some respects" was what I said, because while the Su-30MK2 is still serving in the PLAN, their role has been gradually dimished and superseded by front-line aircraft such as the J-11BH, J-15S, J-16, or JH-7A.

So it's time for order 24x Su-35 as replacement of 24x Su-30MK2 as best ones to counter next year Japanese F-35

 

[Viper0011.]

China has resumed negotiations with Russia over the purchase of "4++ generation" Sukhoi Su-35 multirole fighters. Although Moscow and Beijing had been discussing a deal for over two years, China halted the process for several months after details of the talks appeared in the Russian media.

AIRSHOW CHINA: China resumes talks with Russia on Su-35 purchase

The contract has either been signed, or about to be signed on this. Worth, over $ 2+ billion and for an initial order of 24 jets, with more as an option later.

 

[BoQ77]

What is "optimum configuration"? "In some respects" was what I said, because while the Su-30MK2 is still serving in the PLAN, their role has been gradually dimished and superseded by front-line aircraft such as the J-11BH, J-15S, J-16, or JH-7A.

What's the air squadron of PLAAF, PLANAF has better fighters than the one with Su-30MK2 ?
The air squadron with Su-35 will be the strongest air squadron.

 

[Deino]

What's the air squadron of PLAAF, PLANAF has better fighters than the one with Su-30MK2 ?
The air squadron with Su-35 will be the strongest air squadron.

Vietnam now has 3 air squadrons with Su-30MK2

And that's more than irrelevant to bring each and every time into treads, what Vietnam has !!

 

[BoQ77]

And that's more than irrelevant to bring each and every time into treads, what Vietnam has !!

I deleted that, but I want to ask you one question "to where China would put their Su-35 once they get them?"

Countries build or purchase their weapons to counter threats to their interests, not for show !!!

 

[Akasa]

What's the air squadron of PLAAF, PLANAF has better fighters than the one with Su-30MK2 ?

Not quite sure about which squadrons, but multiple ones have been formed that use the aforementioned aircraft.

The air squadron with Su-35 will be the strongest air squadron.

Unlikely. PLAAF squadrons have an equal number of planes.

 

[victor07]

Highly doubtful; the J-11D and J-16 feature the same kind of upgrade scheme as that of the Su-35, such as airframe and electronic enhancements, but also with an AESA radar. The J-20 should also start LRIP in 2016.

The same kind of upgrade scheme? How? From where China may have the knowledge of Su-35 upgrade decisions and all spectrum of used technologies? Twitter? Newspapers? Air Shows? So upgrade scheme may be similar, not same.
Airframe... Are Chinese technologies, knowledge and experience mature enough to develop own airframe for heavy fighter, equal to the best world standards, without relying on samples? Some doubts.
AESA... Problem is not in AESA vs PESA, it is in maturity of technology, including signal processing algorithms, detection and recognition of targets, weapons control, and hence, => combat capabilities. And also do not forget maintenance. Failure of such a system like radar in a combat means death. Su-35 uses mature system with capabilities equal or better to other modern combat aircrafts of the same generation.
The same is true for engines.
So if the deal will be implemented, Su-35 for China may be seen as a platform for verification and validation of current projects J-11, ..., etc.

 

[Sanchez]

The same kind of upgrade scheme? How? From where China may have the knowledge of Su-35 upgrade decisions and all spectrum of used technologies? Twitter? Newspapers? Air Shows? So upgrade scheme may be similar, not same.
Airframe... Are Chinese technologies, knowledge and experience mature enough to develop own airframe for heavy fighter, equal to the best world standards, without relying on samples? Some doubts.
AESA... Problem is not in AESA vs PESA, it is in maturity of technology, including signal processing algorithms, detection and recognition of targets, weapons control, and hence, => combat capabilities. And also do not forget maintenance. Failure of such a system like radar in a combat means death. Su-35 uses mature system with capabilities equal or better to other modern combat aircrafts of the same generation.
The same is true for engines.
So if the deal will be implemented, Su-35 for China may be seen as a platform for verification and validation of current projects J-11, ..., etc.

Are J-10 and J-20 not Chinese developed airframes? Is there anything similar to J-20? Has Russia walked away far beyond Su-27 airframe?

Chinese already mastered techs like signal processing algorithms, detection and recognition of targets, weapons control, and so on.

I think China wants to have a close look on those 117s engines to see if we could make a better WS-10 or the WS-15 for J-20.