I have never been to the US. You really should not tell me about the benefits I have here. It is not your business!
You have destroyed all the historical evidence of what happened during Ayub Khan era (the pacts signed with the US), the $$$ Pakistani military elite got to fight America's war against the Soviets and so on.
That being said, Russia has no obligation to sell Pakistan its weapons. They hold the technology. Therefor the discourse.
Pakistani military establishment chose F 16s and are still getting the old toys. India, however, is in a win win situation as she played right.
Pakistani elite never balanced the relationship. They went for the maximum booli.
"It is preposterous to say the least that having good relations with the US means that country is being prostituted to the US!"
Did you forget the aid Pakistan gets after rendering the services to the US? Is that not prostitution? Without the American aid, your military will probably collapse in a week of war with India. Without their weapons your military will....
Did you forget who signed the NRO? Which general and the ISI head?
Are you denying all that? Are you saying Pakistani establishment does not sell the country for their own benefits? Are you suggesting good relations are when they give NRO? Good relations when our general waited for Zinni to wink? Are you looking for more examples?
Don't you see any relation in the graph?
Evidence is coming soon of how much commission Pakistani generals make on weapons procurement. Don't worry. Other perks given from America also coming soon.
Coming very very soon!
I can only say that I have never come across such skewed way of thinking. Let us discuss Ayub Khan era because I was already grown by then and remember it all vividly.
Following the cold war, the world got divided into two blocks, Western Block & the Soviet/Communist area of influence.
US needed allies to encircle Communist block and Pakistan needed economic & military assistance. Pakistan no doubt Pakistan received military aid from the US but did not suffer great deal of damage because of that. Greatest harm to Pakistan was during the Afghan war which gave Pakistan Kalashnikov culture and the drugs. But in that war many countries such as Saudi Arabia, Egypt as well as their citizens were also involved
Soviet Union also provided huge amount of financial as well as military support to the communist countries such as Cuba and the Arab countries like Egypt, Syria, and Iraq to extend her sphere of influence. Both China and India were also major recipients of the Soviet military & economic assistance. India signed a treaty of friendship with India before the Indian invasion of Pakistan in 1971.
Article IX of the pact implies that it was in fact a mutual defence pact in disguise as in the event Indian was threatened Soviet Union will do all it can to assist in India.
Nevertheless Indian was not prostituting herself, but you reserves this hateful word for Pakistan only. It means that in case Pakistan was unable to buy arms from her own resources, you would prefer that Pakistan fights India with lathis?
Indian had already received Migs from Soviet Union. Since you never mentioned how else how else would Pakistan have armed herself; without the US supplied Sabres Pakistan would have been unable to defend herself in 1965.
I am not in love with the US; instead I realise that just like all other nations, US action are governed not by the “goodness of their heart” but by the larger national interest. However, I am realistic enough to understand “realpolitik” and see no harm in exploiting the situation to Pakistan’s advantage whenever Pakistani & US interests converge.
Your claim that you have never visited the US does not prove anything. Canada is a great country but her foreign policy & economy is so much intertwined with the US that at times it is difficult to tell the two countries apart
Obviously you have a certain mind-set which makes your attitude toward foreign relations and the military aid very different from mine. Besides, I prefer not to use profane words like 'Prostitute' for my motherland. It is therefore pointless to take this debate any further.
In case you never came across India-Soviet Union Friendship Treaty, it is noted below:
(ARTICLE I)
The High Contracting Parties solemnly declare that enduring peace and friendship shall prevail between the two countries and their peoples. Each party shall respect the independence, sovereignty and territorial integrity of the other party and refrain from interfering in the other's internal affairs. The High Contracting Parties shall continue to develop and consolidate the relations of sincere friendship, good neighbourliness and comprehensive cooperation existing between them on the basis of the aforesaid principles as well as those of equality and mutual benefit.
(ARTICLE II)
Guided by the desire to contribute in every possible way to ensure enduring peace and security of their people, the High Contracting Parties declare their determination to continue their efforts to preserve and to strengthen peace in Asia and throughout the world, to halt the arms race and to achieve general and complete disarmament, including both nuclear and conventional, under effective international control.
(ARTICLE III)
Guided by their loyalty to the lofty ideal of equality of all peoples and nations, irrespective of race or creed, the High Contracting Parties condemn colonialism and racialism in all forms and manifestations, and reaffirm their determination to strive for their final and complete elimination.
The High Contracting Parties shall cooperate with other States to achieve these aims and to support the just aspirations of the peoples in their struggle against colonialism and racial domination.
(ARTICLE IV)
The Republic of India respects the peace-loving policy of the Union of Soviet Socialist Republics aimed at strengthening friendship and co-operation with all nations.
The Union of Soviet Socialist Republics respects India's policy of non-alignment and reaffirms that this policy constitutes an important factor in the maintenance of universal peace and international security and in the lessening of tensions in the world.
(ARTICLE V)
Deeply interested in ensuring universal peace and security, attaching great importance to their mutual co-operation in the international field for achieving these aims, the High Contracting Parties will maintain regular contacts with each other on major international problems affecting the interests of both the States by means of meetings, and exchanges of views between their leading statesmen, visits by official delegations and special envoys of the two Governments, and through diplomatic channels.
(ARTICLE VI)
Attaching great importance to economic, scientific and technological co-operation between them, the High Contracting Parties will continue to consolidate and expand mutually advantageous and comprehensive co-operation in these fields as well as expand trade, transport and communications between them on the basis of the principles of equality, mutual benefit and most-favoured nation treatment, subject to the existing agreements and the special arrangements with contiguous countries as specified in the Indo - Soviet trade agreement of 26 December 1970.
(ARTICLE VII)
The High Contracting Parties shall promote further development of ties and contacts between them in the fields of science, art, literature, education, public health, press, radio, television, cinema, tourism and sports.
(ARTICLE VIII)
In accordance with the traditional friendship established between the two countries, each of the High Contracting Parties solemnly declares that it shall not enter into or participate in any military alliance directed against the other Party.
Each High Contracting Party undertakes to abstain from any aggression against the other Party and to prevent the use of its territory for the commission of any act which might inflict military damage on the other High Contracting Party.
(ARTICLE IX)
Each High Contracting Party undertakes to abstain from providing any assistance to any third country that engages in armed conflict with the other Party. In the event of either being subjected to an attack or a threat thereof, the High Contracting Parties shall immediately enter into mutual consultations in order to remove such threat and to take appropriate effective measures to ensure peace and the security of their countries.
(ARTICLE X)
Each High Contracting Party solemnly declares that it shall not enter into any obligation, secret or public, with one or more States, which is incompatible with this Treaty. Each High Contracting Party further declares that no obligation be entered into, between itself and any other State or States, which cause military might damage to the other Party.
(ARTICLE XI)
This Treaty is concluded for the duration of twenty years and will be automatically extended for each successive period of five years unless either High Contracting Party declares its desire to terminate it by giving notice to the other High Contracting Party twelve months prior to the expiration of the Treaty. The Treaty will be subject to ratification and will come into force on the date of the exchange of Instruments of Ratification which will take place in Moscow within one month of the signing of this Treaty.
(ARTICLE XII)
Any difference of interpretation of any Article or Articles of this Treaty which may arise between the High Contracting Parties will be settled bilaterally by peaceful means in a spirit of mutual respect and understanding.
The said Plenipotentiaries have signed the present Treaty in Hindi, Russian and English, all text being equally authentic and have affixed thereto their seals.
Done in New Delhi on the Ninth day of August in the year One Thousand Nine Hundred and Seventy One.
On behalf of the Union of Soviet Socialist Republics
(Sd.) A. A. Gromyko,
Minister of External Affairs,
On behalf of the Republic of India
(Sd.) Swaran Singh, Minister of External Affairs.