Chew on this

[Speaker]

Arsehole cant even get the name of the CIA agent right. Who the hell is Shahid afridi?

It speaks loads about the 'level' of naked journalism.

Damn, that is a serious blunder. Pretty poor proof reading especially when Shahid Afridi is a well known name in the world of cricket.

 

[Jango]

Najam Sethi also ranted about Afridi case a couple of days ago, in his late night program on GEO.

A Pakistani national was working for a foreign agency without the governments consent, end of.

 

[Solomon2]

He had information about the were abouts of the world's most wanted man and chose to keep it from the authorities, that warrants action under the charge of accessory to terrorism.

This is Pakistan. As often as not - or more? - the authorities are accessories to terrorists and as such lack credibility for ordinary citizens to approach them. Are Pakistanis hapless colonials that they put such an inhuman value on blind obedience to authority?

His actions have resulted in a very serious dent on our reputation -

Pakistan's reputation was already poor. But before 5/2 the generals and politicians had kept you from realizing that, yes?

- and has cast a doubt over all our sacrifices in this war

Aha! So Afridi had to be silenced because the alternative would have been to expose the military leadership to the charge that they either criminally complicit or woefully incompetent in the deaths of many hundreds of their own soldiers. Why should Kayani and his ilk be free from such overview?

 

[King Solomon]

He had information about the were abouts of the world's most wanted man and chose to keep it from the authorities, that warrants action under the charge of accessory to terrorism.
Then he worked with CIA, charge: Conspiracy
Chose to divulge info to a foreign power, by passing local security apparatus, Charge: Treason

His actions have resulted in a very serious dent on our reputation and has cast a doubt over all our sacrifices in this war, he deserves that cell, though I think the jail cell deserved better than to house a traitor, I thought he deserved to be shot.

I was a bit misinformed at first but now I do realize US was not showing the level of trust that pakistan deserved.

But I still think the punishment was too great. Antagonism with US may fail to accomplish much for pakistan.

 

[Kompromat]

Non politically correct people suggest that this lunatic so called "arm chair thinker" sethi is on the US payroll. Expect more from the "accomplices" of the CIA network to moan about the Afridi the traitor. All they worry about is their pockets going lighter because Pakistani security forces are cutting their roots !

 

[Hulk]

Non politically correct people suggest that this lunatic so called "arm chair thinker" sethi is on the US payroll. Expect more from the "accomplices" of the CIA network to moan about the Afridi the traitor. All they worry about is their pockets going lighter because Pakistani security forces are cutting their roots !

Instead of calling him names, prove what he is saying is wrong. He is quoting information available in public domain.

 

[muse]

Thoughtful, and well reasoned responses - ONLY, Pleez (alright, so I need a spell check)



Not guilty as charged
By Feisal H Naqvi
Published: May 28, 2012

The writer is a partner at Bhandari, Naqvi & Riaz and an advocate of the Supreme Court. The writer can be reached on Twitter @laalshah. The views presented in the article above are not those of his firm

Two basic questions arise out of Dr Shakil Afridi’s conviction for “waging war” on Pakistan. Is it legal? And, is it sensible? In both cases, the answer is “No.”

Let’s start with the legalities. Afridi was convicted in a secret trial held by the Assistant Political Agent of the Khyber Tribal Agency. The trial was secret and, so far as I know, no lawyer appeared on behalf of Dr Afridi.

As a citizen of Pakistan, Shakil Afridi has a right to due process, a right that is now expressly stated in the Constitution. It is settled law that access to counsel and trial open to the public are fundamental to the concept of a fair trial. Dr Afridi was also tried by an executive official, as opposed to an independent court, and thereby deprived of his fundamental right of access to justice. His conviction is consequently illegal.

One answer to the due process argument is that fundamental rights are not applicable to the Tribal Areas. Technically, that is incorrect. All citizens of Pakistan have the same rights. What the Constitution explicitly states is that the superior courts may not exercise jurisdiction in relation to the tribal areas, a fact that prevents laws like the Frontier Crimes Regulation from being struck down.

In any event, given that the Osama bin Laden incident occurred in Abbottabad, the real question is why Afridi was being tried in the Tribal Areas. So far as I know, the judicial authorities of the Tribal Areas only have jurisdiction to punish offences committed in Fata, not outside. In a nutshell then, Afridi was illegally convicted by an executive official acting in a manner repugnant to centuries of jurisprudence.

Let us move on to the merits. It is not in dispute that Shakil Afridi committed an entirely despicable act by faking a vaccination programme and thereby betrayed his oath as a doctor. However, he was neither charged with that crime nor punished for it: he was charged with “waging war” on Pakistan. As such, the fact that he acted despicably and in conscious breach of the Hippocratic Oath is irrelevant.

What then of the actual charge? Did Shakil Afridi wage war on Pakistan? Not in my opinion.

There has been much critical analysis of Dr Afridi’s actions by a number of people whom I greatly respect. These include my learned friend, Ejaz Haider, the American columnist Glenn Greenwald, and the anonymous geniuses posting at cafepyala.com. In each case, the emphasis has been placed on the fact that Dr Afridi knowingly worked for a “foreign” intelligence agency. Greenwald, for example, asked his American readers to consider what would their reaction have been if the US had caught a Cuban-American doctor faking a vaccination campaign in order to assist the Castro regime.

The problem is that there is a world of a difference between a “foreign” intelligence agency and a “hostile” agency. Had Dr Afridi knowingly worked for RAW or Mossad, he would have no defence. But, in this case, Dr Afridi was not working for an enemy country: he was working for the United States, our ally. Indeed, not only does Pakistan proudly proclaim its status as a “major non-Nato ally” but it also openly and publicly collaborates with the US in military matters. Do we really want to say that helping the US fight the al Qaeda is the equivalent of waging war on Pakistan? Seriously?

Obviously, the fact that the US and Pakistan are allies is not an omnibus defence against treason charges. However, what the prosecution needed to show was that Afridi’s particular instance of collaboration was tantamount to waging war on Pakistan. However, Afridi helped US agencies kill Osama bin Laden. Does anybody seriously want to argue that killing Bin Laden was the equivalent of waging war against Pakistan? Leaving aside all other arguments, our country had openly and repeatedly identified Osama bin Laden as an enemy. How is helping our avowed ally kill our avowed enemy the equivalent of waging war against Pakistan?

I come now to the sensibility of punishing Dr Afridi. Pakistan is already viewed with grave suspicion in the West as a treacherous ally. Pakistan’s long suffering friends know that this narrative is false; indeed, President Asif Ali Zardari has penned so many op-eds recounting our sacrifices that the “Pakistan itself is a victim of terrorism” line has become a cliché. But countries which are themselves victims of terrorism do not respond to the death of their tormenters by punishing the killers; at least, not if they want to retain any credibility in the eyes of an increasingly sceptical world.

I also don’t think Afridi’s case can be analogised to either Jonathan Pollard or Mordechai Vanunu. In each case, they had sold official secrets in violation of an express law. Each of them was punished because the relevant law said that selling secrets to a friend is as bad as selling secrets to an ally. But the law regarding treason is different: there, the distinction between friend and foe is critical.

Let me end by conceding that Shakil Afridi is indeed an unsympathetic character. But laws are not made for sympathetic characters. A person whom the military hates has been picked up without charge, held without trial for months, tried in secret by an executive official, and punished on charges which wouldn’t survive five minutes before an independent judge. It is not idle fancy to wonder when these developments will be used against the rest of us. These are all old tricks that have been used before.

Mian Nawaz Sharif should remember. When he was being tried in Attock Fort, he had challenged the proceedings on precisely the basis that he deserved an open and fair trial. The Lahore High Court (LHC) in a travesty of a judgment rejected that argument. I remember that judgment: I was one of Mian Sahib’s lawyers.

The tribal areas scam is also old. In 1975, Manzoor Elahi was spirited away by the police from Lahore to tribal areas in Balochistan to ensure he could not be released. The LHC, however, forced the security forces to return Manzoor Elahi back to Lahore and then granted him bail. Till today, the legal community is proud of that judgment. Shakil Afridi may not deserve our respect, but the laws of Pakistan certainly do.

 

[Solomon2]

"How is helping our avowed ally kill our avowed enemy the equivalent of waging war against Pakistan?"

The logical conclusion is that while OBL was an "avowed enemy" he was in reality a secret ally of Pakistan, or at least of Pakistani officials powerful enough to get him convicted by the Agent.

 

[SQ8]

Perhaps the answer is less complicated than it is assumed?
perhaps the reason Dr Afridi is being tried is simply because a bunch of egoistic Khakis have found themselves looking like idiots..
and the internal security apparatus(A.K.A the last remnant of the British Raj) is furious at being made to look like fools(again) in front of the world.
Perhaps we should also look into those institutionalized personalities that may have lost face in front of their colleagues after "sohni dharti" was so easily violated.

Perhaps it is complicated.. and the world should stop looking at inside as if its black and white..
and more as if its like the colours of the rainbow spun at high speed.. and the non-conformist grey they create.

 

[SQ8]

Perhaps the answer is less complicated than it is assumed?
perhaps the reason Dr Afridi is being tried is simply because a bunch of egoistic Khakis have found themselves looking like idiots..
and the internal security apparatus(A.K.A the last remnant of the British Raj) is furious at being made to look like fools(again) in front of the world.
Perhaps we should also look into those institutionalized personalities that may have lost face in front of their colleagues after "sohni dharti" was so easily violated.

Perhaps it is complicated.. and the world should stop looking at inside as if its black and white..
and more as if its like the colours of the rainbow spun at high speed.. and the non-conformist grey they create.

 

[muse]

Apparently "Thoughtful and well reasoned " will carry no currency - not even with Sol? -- What's the rush, go slow, take your time, the story has a ways to go - the entire thing is a set up - and you want to settle for cheap shots??

 

[Solomon2]

Apparently "Thoughtful and well reasoned " will carry no currency - not even with Sol? -- What's the rush, go slow, take your time, the story has a ways to go - the entire thing is a set up - and you want to settle for cheap shots??

True, I wrote the logical conclusion not the "thoughtful and well reasoned" one. Oscar did that.

 

[Jango]

The order has not yet been given to the doctors lawyers. His lawyer in a press conference said that he had another case against him of doing false operations on patients. And that was in khyber agency. But 30 years in prison, does the crime fit the punishment?

And if he has been charged for collaborating with a foreign agency, thèn why not in a court outside FATA and FCR jurisdiction.

 

[muse]

The second oldest profession
By Lt-Gen (r) Asad Durrani
Published: May 29, 2012

The writer served as director-general of the ISI from 1990-92 asad.durrani@tribune.com.pk

And half as honourable, as someone rather unkindly added. After all, spying for one’s country, which has not infrequently washed the sins of many from the still older profession, cannot be all bad. Just look at the stakes. If nailed in hostile territory, one faced an uncertain fate. Even your own country might disown you, as well as the fact that in most lands the act carries the death penalty. All the same, there was some solace: one did it for the motherland. No salvation, however, if one was nabbed spooking for a foreign power; even it was the friendliest of all.

Israel is not just another US-friendly country. It can influence the foreign policy of the mightiest power in history, especially in the Middle East. What it cannot do is get its agents released from American prisons. Jonathan Pollard, a US citizen imprisoned in 1987 on charges of spying for Israel, still remains in the jug. The government in Jerusalem and their powerful allies in the US have tried all tricks, including ex post facto grant of Israeli citizenship, but to no avail. Another US national, Ghulam Nabi Fai, was asked to cool his heals for failing to declare funds, allegedly received from the ISI to carry out one of the most legitimate con jobs in the US: lobbying for assorted causes. (Hope our compatriots on foreign payrolls regularly submit their returns!)

So, why so much fuss over Dr Shakil Afridi! If he was involved in clandestine work on behalf of a foreign power, there was no way he could escape prosecution. If he did it for a common cause or for common good, that might have been relevant during the trial, or may make a difference in times to come. (Yes, there is always life after a trial, unlike in cases like Osama’s, where one is executed without even a formal charge.) I do not know if Afridi should have been tried by a jirga or in a court of law, under tribal decree or under the country’s penal code, but I do know that for him, it is not yet all over.

Espionage — like prostitution and war, and unlike politics — has been long enough in business to have evolved a working code of conduct (even a code of ethics). With hundreds of thousands of secret agents snooping all around the globe, a good number of them are very likely to land themselves in trouble. They are not only of great value back home, but are also a prize catch for the hosts. No doubt they would be made to cough out important information about their mission and more, but their real worth lies in their potential for a future exchange. Lest one forgets, the other side too was not solely relying on Peace Corps volunteers. I think Dr Afridi will get another chance to administer a polio vaccine; the next time in the Promised Land.

In the meantime, those who complain that his sentence, 33 years in jail, was too harsh for the crime committed — treason — may like to think again. It is of course possible that some of them also protested when a frail Dr Afia Siddiqui was charged with attempting to disarm a platoon of crack GIs, and sentenced to 86 years behind the bars. If she did in fact commit the act, she was either out of her mind and, therefore, unfit for a court trial, or a woman of great courage. In the UK, assuming that the British still retain some of the traits that helped them create the largest empire in history, a sporting judge would have bestowed upon her a Victoria Cross.

Now that we have owned the WOT as our war, we may also start owning up our heroes and swap them with theirs. It would be nice to award a Nishan-e-Haider to someone still alive, and a female at that!

 

[airmarshal]

Just keep wondering who is Mr Sethi working for? The traitor doctor was doing all this without the knowledge of the govt or military. There is a big difference when an individual interacts with a foreign intel agency and when a federal agency interacts. Since Mr Afridi was working without knowledge of the country, he deserves punishment. Dont know why this is hurting Mr. Sethi and his types.
Its just like Mr. Sethi is working for other interests, prime of them being to not let an opportunity go to malign the state and the army of Pakistan