Chengdu J-20 5th Generation Aircraft News & Discussions

[Deino]

That made my day ...

 

[Taygibay]

The J-20 doesn't look like an evolution of the MiG-31 to me.

The overall stealth airframe looks like it comes from Lockheed Martin.
The canopy is from the F-22 with a small brace added.
The DSI is from the F-35.
The all-moving vertical stabilizers look like F-35.
The location and configuration of the weapon bays look like F-22.
The EOTS and DAS look like F-35.
The engines look like they come from Salut.
The overall canard configuration/planform along with the ventral fins look like MiG 1.44.

Although the large size of the aircraft and the large intakes do make it look like an interceptor, like the MiG-31.

In my opinion, the J-20 doesn't look like a 'copy' of any one specific plane. It's more of a mish-mash of different technologies from all over the world.

OK, back in some sort of shape so answering you mate!
I'll first agree overall to your last sentence. That's only normal as newer technologies get added to fighters
and in the case of all-aspect stealth, it does produce similar results, not identical though, more so than is
the case for designs with lesser requirements. Add that I said in a previous answer that we are NOT talking
copy here, at least I am not. I used filiation as when genes ( here ideas ) are passed on to a child but remixed.

Then I removed two of your points ( in red OfC ) because neither are integral to each program.
-The shape of the sensors windows mean nothing as to their performance, as rightly pointed out
by neytirilover earlier and what's more, those shapes to fit the stealth imperative will be alike for
most such integrated birds. You know, little pyramid-like affairs giving 360 view but reflecting waves.
Rafale and Typhoon have different shapes for theirs due to lesser demands in RCS reduction again
but most total stealth fighters will have either these or flush mount ones.
-The engines are widely discussed here. Had China been able to make a fully indigenous engine
answering requirements back at the start of the project, I am certain the Black Eagle would have had
a proprietary torch. The same is as we also know the case of its Russian equivalent. Programs that
included such tailor-made units depend on a national maker being able to answer and should give top
results but also cost a little more ( check F-35 alternative engine saga ).
These elements are not essential to assert lineage and mostly circumstantial in our case.

Of those left, the easy one is the last about the planform being close to 1.44. I sort of said so for the top
part earlier and the ventral fin to vert surfaces. However, air intake location and wing choice are different,
both from the 31, and the canard spacing is very Gripen-like on the old Ru machine and much much more
subtle on the J-20 to the point of acting differently on the plane's attitude. I'd be really happy with any info
on these from Chinese posters because they are an impressive achievement. For instance, is there an
active RCS suppressing tool for them as is claimed on the Typhoon or is that taken care of by the minimal
travel they exhibit on most views?


Now, true disagreement : the rest of your list is all US, LM F-22 & F-35 twice but ...
The airframe is anything except LM. Just the canards make it so. American designers have no love for those
and traditional planforms with rear surfaces is their thing. They can make them but are ( too ) conservative!
They look like broadly speaking due to answering same stealth necessity which as we said limits choices.
The canopy will look like that too for same reasons as long as interception is the idea. The PAKFA canopy
is more sunken but older ones F-16, Rafale show a design line that leads to what will be optimal shape in
stealth which the J-20 could not avoid, that's all! And it's the right place for it!
DSI will look alike for same reasons as before but they are not the same at all. The angles on the trapezoid
are inverted with the top going sharply down and out on the 35 and nearly flat/ on the j-20 - to align with the
different body inclinations. The J-20's DSI is much larger and considering China's expertise from the J-10s
I see no reason to find it copied from F-35.
All moving vertical stabilizers? The PAKFA has them too but huh NOT the F-35?!? Again, US plane makers
are as conservative as they are excellent; the vert surfaces of the JSF are almost of the F-18 line for Pete's
sake! Their trailing edge is not even canted in alignment to the front/leading angle as on the F-22.
Bays are where they'll almost always be if full stealth and interceptor size AC are married : in-line central
and fuselage side for AAMs. That's the best place for them ( GC/MC for heavy stuff, ease of LOAL for AA ).

I have to wonder if some of the pushing for relationship with American design is not socio-politically motivated.
I personally and I am not alone find the comparison unfair to China. Sure, I made the copy machine plans
joke a couple time but if it may be true of some of y/our helicopters it is not the case here.
Inspired by MiG-31 according to me yes but not a copy by any means and not one of any single aircraft. As you
said in that sentence, I agree too, the J-20 is clearly an autonomous design of quality that chose elements to fit
its needs resulting in a unique aircraft. IMHoO, it should not be compared to US made Stealth planes nor any
other. It's impressive on its own.

And have a great day, Tay.

 

[j20blackdragon]

 

[Viper0011.]

And now a quick summary of the J-20's engine mystery...

Probably Titanium or a mix of some metals that absorb the exiting flame's heat, to leave a smaller heat signature when the hot engine burn exits from these nozzles....

 

[j20blackdragon]

Probably Titanium or a mix of some metals that absorb the exiting flame's heat, to leave a smaller heat signature when the hot engine burn exits from these nozzles....

Sure, I've considered that possibility.
But where would the heat go after it has been absorbed?

For example, the heatsink inside a laptop is an excellent conductor of heat, and its job is to transfer that heat to the cooling fan to be dispersed.

How would adding a thin coating to the AL-31FN accomplish all that?

As I understand it, true stealth IR reduction requires a system that mixes cool air in with the hot exhaust gases to lower the IR signature of the aircraft. Simply adding a coating accomplishes very little in my opinion.

 

[cirr]

2018 and 2019. Anyone？

 

[terranMarine]

2018 and 2019. Anyone？

2 more prototypes are coming?

 

[Beast]

2018 and 2019. Anyone？

No.. 2017 will be the final. Beautiful Ladies and banquet of flower are proof.

No other launch of J-20 prototype except first prototype received such grand reception.

 

[帅的一匹]

to keep your enemy guessing is the art of war by itself even your just holding a donkey card

Sorry it's not donkey card, keep guessing.

 

[The Eagle]

View attachment 280602

Indeed it's a beauty

 

[General Observer]

If you are a Ph.D and more importantly faithful to science then you do not belong in this forum.

For the yrs I have been here, I have seen the laws of physics repeatedly violated by your fellow Chinese when it comes to 'eyeballing' aircrafts, ships, wheeled vehicles, and down to firearms. We are talking about guys who can barely tell the differences between a bunsen burner and zippo lighter, and yet no problems dismissing Ph.Ds who worked on billion dollars defense projects that involved high powered computers and math so esoteric they bordered on alien languages. They dismissed by making scientifically baseless claims and accuse those who challenge those claims as racists.

But here is what I think you will do. I believe that peer approval from your fellow Chinese will be more important to you than your fidelity to science. We have seen many times in science when highly educated people, including Ph.Ds, committed scientific frauds, so ignoring obvious scientifically dubious claims will be nothing. I believe that when -- not if -- you see a claim from a fellow Chinese that defies what you know to be theoretically true and verified in the laboratory as true, you will not correct him. You are not the first one to do so and will not be the last.

If you're faithful to the fundamentals and theories of science, I suggest you turn around and look away from these forums, as I am quite positive this is no place for 'intellectuals' like you.

Besides, I don't think you'll be much missed, apart from Viets and a very few number of Indians who look up to you like a God of science.

Well, all the power to their ignorance then.

 

[Deino]

Can we come back to the topic, guys !???

 

[cirr]

No.. 2017 will be the final. Beautiful Ladies and banquet of flower are proof.

View attachment 280694

No other launch of J-20 prototype except first prototype received such grand reception.

There is THE need to further accelerate the development and batch induction of the J-20。

2 more prototypes are coming?

Why not if they are coming in pair in a few weeks？

And there is nothing that can stops these 2 prototypes from becoming part of PLAAF's inventory。

 

[Beast]

There is THE need to further accelerate the development and batch induction of the J-20。



Why not if they are coming in pair in a few weeks？

And there is nothing that can stops these 2 prototypes from becoming part of PLAAF's inventory。

They are not prototype but limited low rate production batches.

 

[terranMarine]

They are not prototype but limited low rate production batches.

A good start for the year 2016 pumping 2 out from the factory