Chengdu J-20 5th Generation Aircraft News & Discussions

[ziaulislam]

its disappointing to see china still not mass producing j20

 

[Figaro]

its disappointing to see china still not mass producing j20

Define mass production then ... mass production is a very ambiguous term

 

[jupiter2007]

Define mass production then ... mass production is a very ambiguous term

Mass production usually means in large numbers or up to the capacity. Chinese can easily produce 40+ J-20 each year.

 

[Figaro]

Mass production usually means in large numbers or up to the capacity. Chinese can easily produce 40+ J-20 each year.

We do not have a good estimate of the number of J-20s produced at all ... and it is very difficult to accurately predict a number since we don't know what the PLAAF requirements are. Perhaps they only want limited numbers of J-20s before the WS-15 becomes available? IMO, this is very understandable. Why mass produce an obviously inferior version when a much better version is going to be available in the not too distant future. Of course, this might be wrong and the PLAAF wants to produce as many J-20s as possible right now to deal with the F-35 threat in the Pacific. But we cannot be sure.

 

[jupiter2007]

We do not have a good estimate of the number of J-20s produced at all ... and it is very difficult to accurately predict a number since we don't know what the PLAAF requirements are. Perhaps they only want limited numbers of J-20s before the WS-15 becomes available? IMO, this is very understandable. Why mass produce an obviously inferior version when a much better version is going to be available in the not too distant future. Of course, this might be wrong and the PLAAF wants to produce as many J-20s as possible right now to deal with the F-35 threat in the Pacific. But we cannot be sure.

You might be correct, building in small batches and wait for WS-15 engine which will have more thrust than Russian engine but recent article suggest that J-20B is in mass production and WS-15 engine won’t be ready until 2022.
China has also increased the production of J-16s to make up the numbers to go against F-18s.

 

[Figaro]

You might be correct, building in small batches and wait for WA-15 engine which will have more thrust than Russian engine but recent article suggest that J-20B is in mass production and WA-15 engine won’t be ready until 2022.
China has also increased the production of J-16s to make up the numbers to go against F-18s.

First off, the engine is called the WS-15. Regarding your article, hopefully you are not referring to the one written by Minnie Chan, which is full of false information and contradictions.

In my opinion, the WS-15 will most likely be fitted onto the J-20 relatively soon (currently its undergoing flight testing most likely aboard a J-11). But from then to mass production for the J-20B will take another couple years. In 2018, Dr. Liu Daxiang, former 624 Gas Turbine Institute director, said the WS-15 would receive design certification within 3 to 5 years, which translates to 2021 to 2023. Only after design certification can the WS-15 commence mass production. So until then, the PLAAF will have to make do with the Taihangs, offering around 140 kN of thrust.

 

[jupiter2007]

First off, the engine is called the WS-15. Regarding your article, hopefully you are not referring to the one written by Minnie Chan, which is full of false information and contradictions.

In my opinion, the WS-15 will most likely be fitted onto the J-20 relatively soon (currently its undergoing flight testing most likely aboard a J-11). But from then to mass production for the J-20B will take another couple years. In 2018, Dr. Liu Daxiang, former 624 Gas Turbine Institute director, said the WS-15 would receive design certification within 3 to 5 years, which translates to 2021 to 2023. Only after design certification can the WS-15 commence mass production. So until then, the PLAAF will have to make do with the Taihangs, offering around 140 kN of thrust.

yes, I was referring to Minnie Chan‘s article. There are also rumors that China is in talk with Russia to acquire large number of SU-35S.

 

[Figaro]

yes, I was referring to Minnie Chan‘s article. There are also rumors that China is in talk with Russia to acquire large number of SU-35S.

All non credible ...

 

[Figaro]

Nothing really new but Pupu confirms that the WS-15 will come with 3D TVC on J-20B

 

[Deino]

Nothing really new but Pupu confirms that the WS-15 will come with 3D TVC on J-20B
View attachment 650558

... but the question is: WHEN?

 

[Figaro]

... but the question is: WHEN?

The WS-15 is already conducting flight tests aboard a modified J-11 ... it shouldn't be long before it moves to the J-20 for testing, which I think is when we are going to get the pictures

 

[kungfugymnast]

The WS-15 is already conducting flight tests aboard a modified J-11 ... it shouldn't be long before it moves to the J-20 for testing, which I think is when we are going to get the pictures

J-11 powered by 40,000lb engine, do you think its top speed will increase apart from fast acceleration with extra 10,000lb per engine? The SU-35 maximum speed is the same as standard Su-27, probably the design doesn't allow it any faster. J-20 with less frontal surface could go Mach 2.5 if the specification on Wikipedia is correct

 

[Figaro]

J-11 powered by 40,000lb engine, do you think its top speed will increase apart from fast acceleration with extra 10,000lb per engine? The SU-35 maximum speed is the same as standard Su-27, probably the design doesn't allow it any faster. J-20 with less frontal surface could go Mach 2.5 if the specification on Wikipedia is correct

Well I think the PLAAF would only put the WS-15 as one of the engines, with the other one being the WS-10 for testing reasons but I would expect superior aerodynamic performance given this extra thrust (albeit I don't think the speed would increase too much given the flanker's design as you mentioned). Regarding Wikipedia's Mach 2.4 claim, I don't think that has any basis. The J-20 is not a dedicated interceptor so why would it need to fly so fast?

 

[gambit]

Do you work in aerospace?

USAF veteran. F-111 Cold War, then F-16 Desert Storm.

How is j20 in your opinion?

In order of accomplishments: Good => Excellent => Outstanding.

The J-20 is an excellent/outstanding effort by China, and the Chinese engineers have all the rights to be proud of what they did. Here is the deal...

In designing a low radar observable body, there are three rules to go by:

- Control of quantity of radiators
- Control of array of radiators
- Control of modes of radiation

They are not so much rules that can be broken as they are guidelines that there are degrees of obedience to them.

The sphere is the reference calibration body in radar design. Look up 'Lincoln Calibration Sphere'. The reason the sphere is used is because the sphere is the most obedient to the three rules.

The J-20, as opined by many, is not as obedient to the three rules as the American F-22 and F-35. Ultimately, the only way to know is to have all the current 'stealth' aircrafts under 3rd party supervised measurement, which will never happen. So for now, all we have is what we observe and educated guesses.

 

[_NOBODY_]

USAF veteran. F-111 Cold War, then F-16 Desert Storm.

Wouldn't transition from F-111 to F-15 have made more sense?