Chengdu J-20 5th Generation Aircraft News & Discussions

[ChineseTiger1986]

Excellent. I understand that the WS-15 uses a second generation monocrystalline superalloy (DD6)

There are already third and fourth generation alloys, so the WS-15 will have a lot of scope for improvement.

Indeed, Yang Wei and his team are preparing for a 2025 maiden flight of the 6th gen aircraft.

Even if the iconic 6th gen variable cycle engine is not ready by that time, the initial test flights of the 6th gen aircraft can still depend on the improved WS-15.

Can you imagine the maiden flight 6th gen aircraft being dependent on the AL-31F or WS-10X? If so, this is going to be absurd.

So the WS-15 being ready for the mass produced J-20, and the upgraded WS-15 for the maiden flight of the 6th gen aircraft by 2025 sounds reasonable to everyone with critical thinking capability.

 

[vi-va]

Hmmm??? Henry K. mentions, there are some changes visible, that hint to a future TVC engine ... can anyone spot them?

View attachment 586799

The position of the end of nozzle moved forward, it means the ws-10c engine is shorter, or somehow just leave more space for longer tvc nozzle.

 

[Deino]

Indeed, Yang Wei and his team are preparing for a 2025 maiden flight of the 6th gen aircraft.

Even if the iconic 6th gen variable cycle engine is not ready by that time, the initial test flights of the 6th gen aircraft can still depend on the improved WS-15.

Can you imagine the maiden flight 6th gen aircraft being dependent on the AL-31F or WS-10X? If so, this is going to be absurd.

So the WS-15 being ready for the mass produced J-20, and the upgraded WS-15 for the maiden flight of the 6th gen aircraft by 2025 sounds reasonable to everyone with critical thinking capability.

Thanks for Your long explanation, and sorry - now I understand - it was a misunderstanding on my side.

But ... even if I understand Your theory, aren't the WS-10 and WS-15 not built by different enterprises? From what i know the WS-10 is from Shenyang, but the WS-15 is developed by Xi'an? So how could they share a similar external design if the WS-15 is a new clean-sheet design by another team?

 

[ZeEa5KPul]

Don't know if I posted this previously but Huitong states that the J-20 is ready to test the WS-15

The latest rumor (September 2019) claimed that J-20 was ready to test the newly integrated WS-15 turbofan engine.

The phrasing "newly integrated" leads me to believe that at least one WS-15 has been installed on a J-20 airframe. There's probably going to be a period of ground and taxiing tests. Hopefully we'll see a flight test before the end of this year.

 

[ILC]

They are all designed and built-in Shenyang.

So, do you think that's WS-10 equipped production variant J-20 or WS-15 prototype?

 

[Figaro]

Excellent. I understand that the WS-15 uses a second generation monocrystalline superalloy (DD6)

There are already third and fourth generation alloys, so the WS-15 will have a lot of scope for improvement.

I think there is a good chance the WS-15 will use DD-9 and upwards considering how old DD6 is (and how the Chinese have already progressed to DD32 and beyond).

 

[ChineseTiger1986]

Thanks for Your long explanation, and sorry - now I understand - it was a misunderstanding on my side.

But ... even if I understand Your theory, aren't the WS-10 and WS-15 not built by different enterprises? From what i know the WS-10 is from Shenyang, but the WS-15 is developed by Xi'an? So how could they share a similar external design if the WS-15 is a new clean-sheet design by another team?

According to CCTV-4, the WS-15 is also being built by the Liming aircraft engine factory from Shenyang.

Maybe they could later expand new production lines elsewhere in order to boost the production capacity.

 

[ZeEa5KPul]

I think there is a good chance the WS-15 will use DD-9 and upwards considering how old DD6 is (and how the Chinese have already progressed to DD32 and beyond).

I find that hard to believe. DD6 was first reported in 2000:
https://www.tms.org/Superalloys/10.7449/2000/Superalloys_2000_777_783.pdf
while DD9 was first reported in 2016 (by the same institute, even by some of the same researchers):
https://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/10.1002/9781119075646.ch6

It's difficult to see how the first variant of the WS-15 could use this alloy as its design long predates it.

 

[Figaro]

I find that hard to believe. DD6 was first reported in 2000:
https://www.tms.org/Superalloys/10.7449/2000/Superalloys_2000_777_783.pdf
while DD9 was first reported in 2016 (by the same institute, even by some of the same researchers):

It's difficult to see how the first variant of the WS-15 could use this alloy as its design long predates it.

DD9 was already around back in 2011. I believe i have seen DD9 back in a 2009 paper but I cannot seem to find it right now.
Abstract

1 LI Jia-rong,LIU Shi-zhong,SHI Zhen-xue,LUO Yu-shi,WANG Xiao-guang(Science and Technology on Advanced High Temperature Structural Materials Laboratory,Beijing Institute of Aeronautical Materials,Beijing 100095,China);Third Generation Single Crystal Superalloy DD9[A];[C];2011

Link : http://cpfd.cnki.com.cn/Article/CPFDTOTAL-ZGJS201108003089.htm

 

[ZeEa5KPul]

DD9 was already around back in 2011. I believe i have seen DD9 back in a 2009 paper but I cannot seem to find it right now.
Abstract

1 LI Jia-rong,LIU Shi-zhong,SHI Zhen-xue,LUO Yu-shi,WANG Xiao-guang(Science and Technology on Advanced High Temperature Structural Materials Laboratory,Beijing Institute of Aeronautical Materials,Beijing 100095,China);Third Generation Single Crystal Superalloy DD9[A];[C];2011

Link : http://cpfd.cnki.com.cn/Article/CPFDTOTAL-ZGJS201108003089.htm

Interesting, it seems the authors sat on the result for quite a while. I can see DD9 being used in the WS-15 if it was being published on back in 2009-2011.

 

[LKJ86]

The mass-production version of J-20 equipped with WS-10 engines had made its maiden flight.

 

[Deino]

View attachment 587206
The mass-production version of J-20 equipped with WS-10 engines had made its maiden flight.

So one we've seen a few days ago was this maiden flight?

 

[scherz]

Specs of WS-10C? Does it has TVC?

 

[LKJ86]

Via @ccckkknnn2012 from Weibo

 

[Deino]

View attachment 588098
Via @ccckkknnn2012 from Weibo

Just a nice artwork or is this the WS-10-powered one now painted?