Chengdu J-20 5th Generation Aircraft News & Discussions

[lmjiao]

How ? In what ways ?

If I say 'The J-20 is a piece of junk', how is that defying the laws of physics ?


Then you should have no problems translating for the forum. What are you afraid of ?

I am afraid of typing, checking refrences, they are really consuming. Our Chinese friends are showing conclusions. We shall wait for detailed proof. From them or from reports made by the Pentagon.

Sooner or later, all J-20s end up in junks except a few in museums. I don't judge on these meaningless words.

 

[kurutoga]

The possibility of F-22 vs J-20 is very slim. Maybe an all out war between China/Japan in the next 20 years? That is the only scenario I think these two can meet in mid air. Even that is close to impossible considering J20's main purpose is to kill fuel tanker aircrafts. So these discussions are pretty much meaningless. It is entirely possible the two jets never meet during the entire life cycle of F-22.

After 20 years we shall see next gen jets, drones, or new types of weapons, the combat situation will be different.

While I am not against dick measuring contests, I think the more meaningful scenario is J20 (and future upgrades) vs F35. Considering the numbers of these jets will be deployed in East Asia.

 

[gambit]

The possibility of F-22 vs J-20 is very slim.

If you are talking about the political environment that could lead to war, then there is no disagreement here.

But assume that there is an air war between the US and China and that the J-20 is deployed, then the possibility is nowhere near 'slim' but probable.

The F-22 was designed to be an airborne killer, just like its F-15 predecessor. The US will send the F-22 to hunt down any opposition air and if intel has the J-20 in the vicinity, we will hunt it and we will clear the sky of it.

 

[lmjiao]

If you are talking about the political environment that could lead to war, then there is no disagreement here.

But assume that there is an air war between the US and China and that the J-20 is deployed, then the possibility is nowhere near 'slim' but probable.

The F-22 was designed to be an airborne killer, just like its F-15 predecessor. The US will send the F-22 to hunt down any opposition air and if intel has the J-20 in the vicinity, we will hunt it and we will clear the sky of it.

We all know what F-22 is designed for. So is for J-20.

Now there is evil sky above east Asia. Come, and try to clear.

 

[kurutoga]

But assume that there is an air war between the US and China and that the J-20 is deployed, then the possibility is nowhere near 'slim' but probable.

Of course it is all talk. But let's just assume the two countries agree there won't be nuclear weapons involved (impossible since it is US' advantage). We know J-20 is not leaving Chinese territorial air space (other than a random walk into SCS space from time to time) Let's just say F-22 is deployed in Okinawa, the nearest PLAAF base is about 700km away. So it is like 50 F22 vs 200 J-20 that is with ground support? If the war is declared I think the first thing China would do is missile attacks on US bases.

Not something US want to risk. If you study the post WW2 history, USAF never gets into a war without overwhelming superiority in weaponry. While the Chinese jets are still inferior in 2017, they are being improved while F-22 is stagnant.

 

[gambit]

We all know what F-22 is designed for. So is for J-20.

Now there is evil sky above east Asia. Come, and try to clear.

Who has the most -- not merely more -- experience at air superiority ? Between the US and China, it is certainly not China and even the most nationalistic Chinese on this forum will have to agree.

So here is what I have been saying on this forum for yrs...

- Air Dominance. The ability of an air force to compel other air forces to rearray themselves, usually into inferior postures.

- Air Superiority. The ability of an air force to achieve operational control of contested airspace, to do it repeatedly, and if there are any losses, those losses would not pose a statistical deterrence to that ability.

- Air Supremacy. He flies, he dies.

In Desert Storm, of which I am a USAF veteran, we went from dominance to supremacy in less than 48 hrs. The Iraqi Air Force at that time was the most formidable in the region in terms of both numbers and combat experience.

China have not contribute to the art and science of aerial warfare since the dawn of aviation. That is not an insult but an incontestable fact. And currently, the PLA is struggling to reform itself -- in the mold of the US military. While the PLA is struggling to learn new things, we have been well on the way of refining or even discarding some things that the PLA is trying to learn.

So put away the science for now, what make you think the PLA air forces have any chance against the USAF and USN ?

 

[lmjiao]

Who has the most -- not merely more -- experience at air superiority ? Between the US and China, it is certainly not China and even the most nationalistic Chinese on this forum will have to agree.

So here is what I have been saying on this forum for yrs...

- Air Dominance. The ability of an air force to compel other air forces to rearray themselves, usually into inferior postures.

- Air Superiority. The ability of an air force to achieve operational control of contested airspace, to do it repeatedly, and if there are any losses, those losses would not pose a statistical deterrence to that ability.

- Air Supremacy. He flies, he dies.

In Desert Storm, of which I am a USAF veteran, we went from dominance to supremacy in less than 48 hrs. The Iraqi Air Force at that time was the most formidable in the region in terms of both numbers and combat experience.

China have not contribute to the art and science of aerial warfare since the dawn of aviation. That is not an insult but an incontestable fact. And currently, the PLA is struggling to reform itself -- in the mold of the US military. While the PLA is struggling to learn new things, we have been well on the way of refining or even discarding some things that the PLA is trying to learn.

So put away the science for now, what make you think the PLA air forces have any chance against the USAF and USN ?

Because we did have chance against USAF and usn.

Since the first day PLAAF was born.It is fighting with USAF and usn. Hint, in korea.

In that time, you cannot become general of PLAAF, if you didn't shot own a dozen of US pilots.

So, remember we did fight you at the most inexperienced time.

Who has the most -- not merely more -- experience at air superiority ? Between the US and China, it is certainly not China and even the most nationalistic Chinese on this forum will have to agree.

So here is what I have been saying on this forum for yrs...

- Air Dominance. The ability of an air force to compel other air forces to rearray themselves, usually into inferior postures.

- Air Superiority. The ability of an air force to achieve operational control of contested airspace, to do it repeatedly, and if there are any losses, those losses would not pose a statistical deterrence to that ability.

- Air Supremacy. He flies, he dies.

In Desert Storm, of which I am a USAF veteran, we went from dominance to supremacy in less than 48 hrs. The Iraqi Air Force at that time was the most formidable in the region in terms of both numbers and combat experience.

China have not contribute to the art and science of aerial warfare since the dawn of aviation. That is not an insult but an incontestable fact. And currently, the PLA is struggling to reform itself -- in the mold of the US military. While the PLA is struggling to learn new things, we have been well on the way of refining or even discarding some things that the PLA is trying to learn.

So put away the science for now, what make you think the PLA air forces have any chance against the USAF and USN ?

For the chinese science of air force, check text books of USAF, that will change your mind. USAF learned lessons from PLAF, with BLOOD.

 

[gambit]

Because we did have chance against USAF and usn.

Since the first day PLAAF was born.It is fighting with USAF and usn. Hint, in korea.

In that time, you cannot become general of PLAAF, if you didn't shot own a dozen of US pilots.

So, remember we did fight you at the most inexperienced time.

For the chinese science of air force, check text books of USAF, that will change your mind. USAF learned lessons from PLAF, with BLOOD.

Korea again ?

The issue is whether China CONTRIBUTED to the science and art of aerial warfare, not merely participated in it. What innovative ideas, from science to art, did China discovered/invented ? None. But since then, technology has moved on.

This is why I do not take claims of education seriously.

 

[帅的一匹]

All he want is China going to hell, why borther to debate with him....he didn't even spend a second on studying relevant papers of J20 development.

 

[lmjiao]

All he want is China going to hell, why borther to debate with him....he didn't even spend a second on studying relevant papers of J20 development.

One of the advantage of Chinese is open mind. We absorb any thing new from the world, while many in US simply satisfied with self-sensored information.

 

[帅的一匹]

One of the advantage of Chinese is open mind. We absorb any thing new from the world, while many in US simply satisfied with self-sensored information.

How can a country of only 200 years history to compete with a a country of 5000 years civilized history in long term? We shall have confidence in ourself. Let them trolling and we doing our work.

It's not making sense to compare F22 with J20, cause the production line of F22 had been closed 7years ago.

 

[帅的一匹]

That's why USA closed the F22 production line cause China hided the existence of J20 project.

 

[帅的一匹]

If you are talking about the political environment that could lead to war, then there is no disagreement here.

But assume that there is an air war between the US and China and that the J-20 is deployed, then the possibility is nowhere near 'slim' but probable.

The F-22 was designed to be an airborne killer, just like its F-15 predecessor. The US will send the F-22 to hunt down any opposition air and if intel has the J-20 in the vicinity, we will hunt it and we will clear the sky of it.

You only has 183 units F22, the number keeps decreasing when time passing. Unless you re-open the F22 production line and updates its avionics to F35 level?!

That is hilarious considering the US is an immigrant country. It was China who was arrogant in believing foreigners are uncivilized, leading to her subjugation by the Europeans. Unlike China, the Japanese wised up, leading her to become a global power by the early of the 20th century.

And wised-up Japanese murdered thousands Yankees relentlessly in Pearl Habour. The only reason we say no to immigrants is that we don't want someone like you.

 

[lmjiao]

don't let them pollute this thread.

Our mod will take care about this.

back to topic. Front comparison between Su-57 and J-20

 

[gambit]

If something you want to study, such as the Chinese science for fighters, have only Chinese sources. You should study ChInese. This is why I study English.

More importantly, you don't even search. So, lesson one, when you encounter something new, you google.

Feel free to judge me, I don't care.
But if you want to judge Chinese science, read papers first.

Science is neutral. The laws of nature transcends borders. At least with real science. But apparently, with you, we now have a claimed Ph.D that says the laws of nature are different for China and if we want to understand Chinese military weaponry, the only path is to learn Chinese.

Note to the admin staff: From now on, do not construe the phrase 'Chinese physics' as anything racially derogatory because this forum now have a Ph.D that says the laws of physics are different for China.

You only has 183 units F22, the number keeps decreasing when time passing. Unless you re-open the F22 production line and updates its avionics to F35 level?!

A squadron of F-22 is the equivalent of 1/2 of the PLAAF in terms of technology, training, and combat experience.

Say anything as you like. I am in Japan now, and I know details.

You do not know anything about the J-20 any more than the average forum member.

Now US is just like China hundreds years ago. And I hope you don't wake up.

Not possible because the US is an immigrant country. We CONTINUOUSLY consider new ideas and assimilate them when appropriate.