Chengdu J-20 5th Generation Aircraft News & Discussions

[Asoka]

China Game-Changing J-20 FGFA and the related technologies e.g. quantum telecommunication, etc will totally alter East Asian geopolitical landscapes

and sadly for the USA, there is nothing she can do about it.

And Quantum Radar and other Anti-Stealth Radars shows what a Trillion dollars big mistake/scam F-35 really is. Stealth, it (F-35) will not be in the future, no one will be, in fact. So air combat will go back to the time before "Stealth". Anyone who Can't run, Can't fight, Can't turn, or Can't climb will be clubbed like baby seals.

"In quantum radars, a photon is split by a crystal into two entangled photons, a process known as "parametric down-conversion." The radar splits multiple photons into entangled pairs—and A and a B, so to speak. The radar systems sends one half of the pairs—the As—via microwave beam into the air. The other set, the Bs, remains at the radar base. By studying the photons retained at the radar base, the radar operators can tell what happens to the photons broadcast outward. Did they run into an object? How large was it? How fast was it traveling and in what direction? What does it look like?

Quantum radars defeat stealth by using subatomic particles, not radio waves. Subatomic particles don't care if an object's shape was designed to reduce a traditional, radio wave-based radar signature. Quantum radar would also ignore traditional radar jamming and spoofing methods such as radio-wave radar jammers and chaff.

China isn't the only country working on quantum radar: Lockheed Martin was granted a patent on a theoretical design 2008. Lockheed's plans were more far-reaching, including the ability to "visualize useful target details through background and/or camouflaging clutter, through plasma shrouds around hypersonic air vehicles, through the layers of concealment hiding underground facilities, IEDs, mines, and other threats." In many ways, Lockheed's concept of quantum radar resembles the spaceship and handheld sensors on "Star Trek."

Since the 2008 patent, Lockheed's been silent on the subject of quantum radars. Given what a technological leap such a system would be, it's quite possible the research has gone "black"—highly classified and subject to a high level of secrecy."

China Claims It Developed "Quantum" Radar To See Stealth Planes
http://www.popularmechanics.com/military/research/a22996/china-quantum-stealth-radar/

 

[CAPRICORN-88]

IMO the F-35 is much overrated 4.88 generation fighter. I read somewhere there are more than 300 defects discovered in the plane and counting based on reports by the Pentagon e.g. structural issues.

Unresolved these fighter are hurriedly put into service. They are not fully combat ready and even when they are so, I do not think they are a match for China J-20 which continues to evolve.

 

[Asoka]

IMO the F-35 is much overrated 4.88 generation fighter. I read somewhere there are more than 300 defects discovered in the plane and counting based on reports by the Pentagon e.g. structural issues.

Unresolved these fighter are hurriedly put into service. They are not fully combat ready and even when they are so, I do not think they are a match for China J-20 which continues to evolve.

I don't know where you got this F-35 is a "4.88 generation fighter" from. It's grossly overweighted. It can't Super cruise. It's maneuverability is poorer than the F-15, F-16, and F-18, its supposed to replace. This thing is made for Cancellation, but instead its going to make 3000 copies, for the next 20-30 years.

The J-20 will have this flying fat pig (F-35) for breakfast, lunch, snack and dinner, at any time, at any day.

There is no budget problem or industrial capacity barrier to prevent China from producing 500-3000, different variants of J-20, in the next 20-40 years, if anyone threatens China with wars.

J-20 will continue to develop and evolve, to include networked and distributed AESA, Quantum Radar, Laser Canon, Laser Communication Networking, Optical Stealth; while F-22 and F-35, will not. I think that's the biggest difference. F-22 is canceled, and F-35 is totally maxed out in internal space, and grossly overweight already.

This lack of internal space is a severe limitation for a stealthy plane. For other planes, if they want to include a new capability, they could use an external Pod.

 

[slng]

There should be another study for F-35 proceeding failure to delivers the goal. Those *** should be prosecuted having billions of money put into waste/someone pocket

 

[psr540]

China solved the problem of allowing J-20, and other planes, to form a inflight Stealthy Network using Laser Communication only.

This Laser Communication Network allow a direct path communication distance of 144km and 2.5Gbps capacity. The distance could be extended using drones as relay stations or upload to satellites.

Damn it's just very primitive technology test, it might be years or even decades when we could have a mature application out of this. Let me ask you a question Asok, how do you solve stable point to point laser connection between two fast moving objects? Laser communication has its limitation, don't hype things up. It really silly to see a self claimed tech guy like you to constantly post things with no ground base, you are LIKE many many amateurs on China military forums, one thing and you guys blow it up to 100 things, so silly.

 

[jhungary]

Not only fast, but there is always the probability of maneuvers.

Word of caution: If you do not support Chinese opinions on this forum, you will be labelled an Indian.

What I don't understand is this "F-35 is a fat pig" comment and stuff like that, as if these people have actually see and touch and pilot one of them before...........

I have TS/SCI (Stand for Top Secret/Sensitive Compartmentalized Information) I clearence in 2000s, even I cannot access to the actual data for F-35, how would these "supposed" expert know about this. I don't suppose every Tom, Jane and Dick in China can have access to data/detail on Microwave Communication, Quantum Communication to begin with, let alone the true capability of F-35.

In all, even J-20 and J-31 is still in prototype......So, to summarize, these Chinese member here can have top level clearence in both China and the US, and can see into the future............lol

 

[Asoka]

Damn it's just very primitive technology test, it might be years or even decades when we could have a mature application out of this. Let me ask you a question Asok, how do you solve stable point to point laser connection between two fast moving objects? Laser communication has its limitation, don't hype things up. It really silly to see a self claimed tech guy like you to constantly post things with no ground base, you are LIKE many many amateurs on China military forums, one thing and you guys blow it up to 100 things, so silly.

"how do you solve stable point to point laser connection between two fast moving objects?"

The same way USAF shoot down a missile moving at Mach 5-10 with an airborne laser. That's a lot harder than two planes pointing the communication lasers at each other at 144km, apart. IMO.

If you are really a Chinese, you would able to read the article and figure out. It mentioned how it is done.

The Chinese aren't the first to do this. The USAF are already doing this years ago. So don't doubt this is possible, you Chinese doubters. I have purposely left out, the informations that, other countries are already doing laser communications, so you doubters have a chance to work up a sweat to express your habitual, ingrained doubts about China.

http://www.nationaldefensemagazine....ommunicationsReadyForFielding,VendorsSay.aspx
http://breakingdefense.com/2015/08/air-force-moves-aggressively-on-lasers/

"Laser communication has its limitation, don't hype things up. It really silly to see a self claimed tech guy like you to constantly post things with no ground base."

Tell that to NASA, and the Europeans, they are planning a Satellite network with Laser Communications.

"In the early morning hours of Oct. 18, NASA’s Lunar Laser Communication Demonstration (LLCD) made history, transmitting data from lunar orbit to Earth at a rate of 622 Megabits-per-second (Mbps). That download rate is more than six times faster than previous state-of-the-art radio systems flown to the moon.

“It was amazing how quickly we were able to acquire the first signals, especially from such a distance,” said Don Cornwell, LLCD manager. “I attribute this success to the great work accomplished over the years by the Massachusetts Institute of Technology Lincoln Laboratory (MIT/LL) and their partnership with NASA.”

Historic Demonstration Proves Laser Communication Possible
https://www.nasa.gov/content/goddard/historic-demonstration-proves-laser-communication-possible

http://aviationweek.com/space/big-gains-horizon-laser-communications-suppliers

“It started with Teledesic, but the German Aerospace Center DLR and Tesat have stuck with it, and now it’s the policy of Germany that laser comm is a core capability in space,” says Matthias Motzigemba, head of laser products at Tesat. “We have been taking the different intermediate steps over 25 years to develop the product we have today.”

Through EDRS, Tesat has been demonstrating optical links with LEO-to-GEO laser transmissions using an experimental LCT aboard Inmarsat’s Alphasat commercial communications satellite and an operational terminal on the European Sentinel-1A synthetic aperture radar spacecraft launched last year. Alphasat then relays the data in Ka-band to the ground."

 

[Deino]

Guys ... even if surely interesting, there is no word that this is operational or even related to the J-20. So please stay on topic.

Deino

 

[Asoka]

It's highly related to J-20, because this will enable stealthy, non-radio-frequency-communications networks between J-20 and support planes. Not only, stealthy-radio-silent, and high bandwidth, the straight line/direct path of Laser Communications makes interception by the enemies highly unlikely. And detection of interception, in such unlikely scenarios, is immediate.

And I expect 2-5 years, from now, to be fully operational, on J-20 and other planes. It's part of the package for J-20, from the beginning, IMO. The many unidentified windows on J-20 is probably for such purpose, since the Laser windows needs to be on all directions.

The older planes need to carry the laser communication equipment in a Pod. Not really a problem, if you weren't design to be stealth. But if you are F-22 and F-35, that needs to retrofit into the airframe or carry it in a Pod, which might increase the RCS.

This is a huge advantage for anybody, who have this kind of Laser Communication Networks. They can communicate via a High-Bandwidth direct link, for all they want, without the fear of interception, detection, and jamming, which is one of the top method of screw up your enemy's communications.

It's the way of the future. If your enemy have Laser Communication, you can leave all your radio jamming equipments at home, in the future. While he can happily turn on his All-frequencies Jammer on you, without worrying that he will also jam his own radio communications.

Don't believe the Chinese? Ask the USAF, they are the Experts on Jamming.

 

[Deino]

But ... it's the future and surely NOT an operational system already installed in the current J-20s ... as such it is not yet related.

Please don't get me wrong, but if we discuss each and every major scientific breakthrough with at best a loose relation to the J-20, this thread derails completely off topic.

If You want start a new thread with "latest scientific breakthrough" or "future communications" but please not here.

Deino

 

[Asoka]

The Airframe design of J-20, is probably frozen by now, as it goes into LRIP; but, like the F-35, the major avionics subsystems, still need a lot of works to be fully implemented and integrated with the Flight Control System. This is one of the major reason why F-22 is so awesome against older planes. It's FCS and avionics subsystems are fully integrated.

This kind of high level systems integration (飞控和火控交联) is the holy grail for J-20 designers. Only with this kind of integration could J-20 hope to achieve F-22's level of effectiveness. It will take several more years before J-20 is combat ready. IMO.

We have not seen confirmed pictures of the AESA, the F-35 like Helmet, the Helmet Cueing System, the Cockpit LCD display, the Engine, and many other major subsystems. They are probably not matured yet.

In the future, I would expect more news and pictures of the various subsystems. In the usual Chinese way, they will probably shown, without mention explicitly, that they are for J-20. It's up to us to put together the whole picture.

 

[帅的一匹]

Confirmed that J20 adopt smart aircraft skin technology on its DSI(by implant memory alloy), which means it can change shape of its DSI bump per situation. This is a innovation in the world range, only China has. bravo!

And more surprisingly is that the skin of J20 can directly absorb radar wave of different bands. That's why they also carry luneberg len to fly when it doesn't get the paint done yet. J20 is a masterpiece , it shall have due respect.

 

[Asoka]

Confirmed that J20 adopt smart aircraft skin technology on its DSI(by implant memory alloy), which means it can change shape of its DSI bump per situation. This is a innovation in the world range, only China has. bravo!

And more surprisingly is that the skin of J20 can directly absorb radar wave of different bands. That's why they also carry luneberg len to fly when it doesn't get the paint done yet. J20 is a masterpiece , it shall have due respect.

A Chinese patent for the shape changing skin has been filed on 2010, and granted in 2013. Inside the skin, there are sensors and actuators inserted inside the skin to monitor and control the shape. This patent described its uses in aircraft wings. But it could be easily used on the J-20's DSI bump.

The shape of the skin is described as having a Trapezoidal Wave Like Structure (腰梯形波纹结构) with fillers on the outside to maintain smooth shape.

https://www.google.com/patents/CN102060101B?cl=zh
"本发明涉及飞行器的蒙皮，尤其涉及一种用于变体机翼的蒙皮，属于飞行器设计技术领域。

"进一步地，可以在上述上述等腰梯形波纹结构的变体机翼蒙皮内，嵌入驱动器和传感器，从而实现对蒙皮结构监测和控制，从而获得最佳的气动性能。

本发明通过采用等腰梯形波纹结构，解决了变体机翼蒙皮弦向要求大变形而展向需要承载能力强之间存在的矛盾，并通过蒙皮内嵌的传感器和驱动器，实现对蒙皮结构的健康监测和形状控制，获得最佳的气动性能，还通过在蒙皮外表面填充弹性材料，保证了机翼表面的光滑。"

Here is a technical paper on smart shape changing skin. it seems there are many technical papers on this subject (机翼结构的蒙皮的大变形). The international research in the field is very active. Many companies are researching on how to change the shape of the aircraft wings, in response to changing conditions.

可变后缘弯度机翼柔性蒙皮的刚度需求分析
http://www.scichina.com:8082/sciE/fileup/PDF/10ze1090.pdf

 

[帅的一匹]

@Denio either we improve our English or you shall study Chinese, translation for technical term is too hard a job for fellow Chinese.

 

[Deino]

Don't get me wrong and it is not a personel obsesson by myself: This is per will of the owner an English-language forum.

In a Chinese topic to avoid CHinese is impossible, but at least for all who can speak chinese it should be possible to give a summary, a brief note, on what this topic is at least.
Sometimres I have the feeling a few CHinese members simply don't want to do this since it gives them a feeling of being superior ...

Again, this is not my obsession, but in mind of the many others members here without any ability to read Chinese at least some sort of good will to translate ... otherwise these guys can simply stick in CHinese forum and post in chinese only and keep all their knowing for their own. Then no need to post here.

Deino