Chengdu J-20 5th Generation Aircraft News & Discussions

[Zhu Rong Zheng Yang]

@Deino

Based on this truth / concept ... ... < There is no such thing is the ULTIMATE best on everything >.
< One can always continuously improve everything >.

Thus, even using the same AL-31FN or WS-10B engines, it does not means that
there is only one and one only ... ... Air Intake Structure Design that is the Best for that particular engine.

Now, with the world Fastest Super Computers on Earth by far and the world Leading Edge
and Highest Precision 3DP tech, plus ( Biggest Dimensional Build Size )
-- ChengDu can cheaply experimenting and designing and improving and producing seamless
DSI dynamical intake structures after structures -- with an Ultra Complex and Ultra Precision inner surface.

ChengDu does NOT have to settle on 1 or 2 Air Intake Structure Designs.
As in the conventional Subtractive manufacturing, where Prototyping process and Toolings are Ultra expensive.
If Moldings and Toolings are fast, easy and cheap, usa will have already restart f-22 ( conventional subtractive manufacturing ) production lines.

===

It is only logical to expect and it has been proven on so many times in so many areas,
that ChengDu is always improving and iterating their designs.

If it is so EASY to install DSI and changing the aircraft nose to maximize the AESA radar performance,
F-16, Rafale, EuroFighter, and Japan Shinshin and other manufacturers will have already
produce similar improvements on their designs using DSI structure and special AESA nose on their aircrafts.

If you disagree ...that is fine, but one must use logical reasonings.

 

[Beast]

Don't twist words again. I never - NEVER - said the WS-10 is not a matured design. The fact that there are more than 400 in several Flankers are operational speaks proof for that alone. Fact however is, it is not installed in the J-20 and so any of Your desperate attempts to explain why the engine of the J-20, that features exactly the same details as an AL-31 has to be a WS-10-version is nothing more than desperate wishful-thinking or ignoring the reality.

It is a 100% domestic made hybrid engine install on J-20. Your evidence is just basic purely on few external look. That is not evidence but pure speculation only. Period.

Yin Zhuo air marshal despite retired still maintain a close r/s with PLAAF and has often representing PLAAF on numerous occasion on CCTV interview regarding PLAAF development.

He told the reporter the domestic engine install currently on the two J-20 doing demo at Zhuhai 2016 has uprated engine(WS-10X) and power ensure the sharp turn and difficult moves demonstrated. Despite the impressive movement. J-20 are still waiting for WS-15 which will be entering service soon. The engine gap between China and USA is still there.

 

[Deino]

It is a 100% domestic made hybrid engine install on J-20. Your evidence is just basic purely on few external look. That is not evidence but pure speculation only. Period.

Yin Zhuo air marshal despite retired still maintain a close r/s with PLAAF and has often representing PLAAF on numerous occasion on CCTV interview regarding PLAAF development.

He told the reporter the domestic engine install currently on the two J-20 doing demo at Zhuhai 2016 has uprated engine(WS-10X) and power ensure the sharp turn and difficult moves demonstrated. Despite the impressive movement. J-20 are still waiting for WS-15 which will be entering service soon. The engine gap between China and USA is still there.

Honestly again, and I don't want to be dishonest to Mr. Yin Zhuo, I'm still convinced he's wrong in this regard. His statement is more some sort of political statement that a fact. It simply does not make any sense .... and even more You say:

... the two J-20 doing demo at Zhuhai 2016 ... ensure the sharp turn and difficult moves demonstrated

Not sure, what You have seen, but the J-20's flight demonstration at Zhuhai was impressive since it was there, but in terms of manoeuvres it was lame at best.

Deino

 

[Beast]

Honestly again, and I don't want to be dishonest to Mr. Yin Zhuo, I'm still convinced he's wrong in this regard. His statement is more some sort of political statement that a fact. It simply does not make any sense .... and even more You say:



Not sure, what You have seen, but the J-20's flight demonstration at Zhuhai was impressive since it was there, but in terms of manoeuvres it was lame at best.

Deino

Yes.. You know more than Yin Zhuo?

May I know what ties you have compare to him regards to PLAAF? Zero!

Yin Zhuo is one of the official spokesmen chosen by PLAAF to give interview on CCTV when comes to PLAAF development. I bet the current PLAAF Air Marshal told him many things which we commoner wouldnt know when regards to PLAAF development. I trust his words more than a "foreigner"

 

[Deino]

Again and even if I admit I am no-one in comparison to him, You must admit, that in his position it is also his task to tell the peoples only what the PLAAF wants them to know and what the PLAAF want them to not to know ... and that does not necessarily has the be the truth!

Deino

 

[Beast]

Again and even if I admit I am no-one in comparison to him, You must admit, that in his position it is also his task to tell the peoples only what the PLAAF wants them to know and what the PLAAF want them to not to know ... and that does not necessarily has the be the truth!

Deino

Is that an assumption from you? If you claim wants to be claim as truth. Please back your sentence. If not , I assume you are just speculating by claiming PLAAF always give rubbish news and claim.

We must trust Deino as PLAAF development official spokesmen,right?

Even Current PLAAF chief Ma Xiangtian must kowtow to Deino, right?

 

[Deino]

Is that an assumption from you? If you claim wants to be claim as truth. Please back your sentence. If not , I assume you are just speculating.

I only now came down to Your level of arguments: Give never a source, don't proof Your ideas ... I only leave the personnel attacks and accusations !

 

[Beast]

I only now came down to Your level of arguments: Give never a source, don't proof Your ideas ... I only leave the personnel attacks and accusations !

I give a video of Yin zhuo(one of the PLAAF choosen spokesmen for many CCTV military interview)personal conversation with CCTV spokeman interview who comfirmed my speculation of WS-10X install on current J-20.

You? Nothing....

 

[Deino]

I give a video of Yin zhuo(one of the PLAAF choosen spokesmen for many CCTV military interview)personal conversation with CCTV spokeman interview who comfirmed my speculation of WS-10X install on current J-20.

You? Nothing....

Agreed and I need to apologise ! But for all Your other claims (J-10B, Y-20, WS-10, WS-18, Z-10 ....) You never gave a source. As such thanks a lot ... however I still don't agree with him IMO his job is especially as a retired insider to deliberately inform and misinform the public.

Similar to the many reports in other countries too ... the military lies if it fits their agenda; that's a fact; everywhere and for us it's a hobby to find the truth.

Anyway ... time will tell.

Deino

 

[Zhu Rong Zheng Yang]

Note: This is a repost of post # 6532.

@Deino --- @星海军事

To both of you, please feel free to answer.
I sincerely would like to hear your opinions.

===

#1) Have you seen any AL-31F variant engines using 18 external Flaps nozzle ?

#2) Have you seen any AL-31F variant engines using ( Bulging / Protruding Seals on
*some* external Flaps as shown by picture below ) ?


J-20 * s/n 2001 * engine in year 2011

J-20 * s/n 2001 * engine testing in year 2011
left = AL-31F
right = Unknown Engine * Flaps with Bulging Seals ??

#3) Why is the above External Flaps Seals bulging / protruding ?

#4) Do you own any J-20 engines nozzles * pictures ( collection from yr 2014 --- 2016 ),
where one can easily count the number of External Flaps ??

If you do, could you please share and upload them ?
Maybe by counting the External FLaps, we can settle the J-20-A present engine.

Many thanks before hand for all your detail explanation.

 

[AlyxMS]

This conversation is painful to watch.

Side 1: Here's the evidence why the J-20's engine is likely AL-31F series and there's not a single piece of evident to suggest they are WS-10.

Side 2: Your evidence is just observation, I don't count that as evidence. What evidence do you have that proves WS-10 is NOT used on J-20? Btw there's this guy on TV said the engines are indigenous, I'm going to trust him.

Do you know what burden of proof is?
For you to make a extraordinary claim (J-20 uses a variant of WS-10 engine that looks exactly like AL-31F series despite no information supports the existence of such engine), you need to provide proof, not the side opposing you. I can argue that J-20 uses stolen F-119 and uses AL-31F nozzles to disguise it as AL-31, do you have proof that it is not?

 

[nang2]

This conversation is painful to watch.

Side 1: Here's the evidence why the J-20's engine is likely AL-31F series and there's not a single piece of evident to suggest they are WS-10.

Side 2: Your evidence is just observation, I don't count that as evidence. What evidence do you have that proves WS-10 is NOT used on J-20? Btw there's this guy on TV said the engines are indigenous, I'm going to trust him.

Do you know what burden of proof is?
For you to make a extraordinary claim (J-20 uses a variant of WS-10 engine that looks exactly like AL-31F series despite no information supports the existence of such engine), you need to provide proof, not the side opposing you. I can argue that J-20 uses stolen F-119 and uses AL-31F nozzles to disguise it as AL-31, do you have proof that it is not?

solution is simple: agree to disagree.

 

[j20blackdragon]

We know J-10C and J-20 production continues. Where are the Russian engine sales if both aircraft are indeed using Russian engines?

Rosoboronexport was at Zhuhai 2016.

The Russian defense industry even brought the AL-31FN.

Did the Russians announce any engine sales?

If the J-20 is using Russian engines, why didn't they say anything at the airshow?

 

[Deino]

We know J-10C and J-20 production continues. Where are the Russian engine sales if both aircraft are indeed using Russian engines?
....
Did the Russians announce any engine sales?
If the J-20 is using Russian engines, why didn't they say anything at the airshow?

There were indeed some reports about an additional contract about 100 additional AL-31F or FN during the show. The Russian media reported that briefly but - You are correct - not in the usual way.

Concerning the "no word" ... I think most likely the same contractual obligations similar to once the original AL-31FN was not admitted even if clear for years.

Deino

 

[siegecrossbow]

November 6th came and went but no J-20...