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Chengdu J-20 5th Generation Aircraft News & Discussions

I didnt mean radar scope.
I meant software would be taking real time raw data from the radar, and drawing it on some display in the cockpit if the pilot wanted to.

You can imagine better with a crude example:
Pilot gets intercept order, target unknown, he gets into some sort of range, points the radar in the general direction, finds it, software/radio camera snaps an image and then gets that image drawn on a display.

And yes i have seen decent detail radar images of stationary objects (buildings) and moving (asteroids) before, i was just wondering if there is any sort of military application along the lines of what i described in use. Is the image resolution big enough to allow type recognition for example.
Absolutely. Just keyword search on 'synthetic aperature radar' and see for yourself. But again, a SAR is best against a stationary target. With a dynamic target and if he is resistant to detection, the moment his RWR alerted him to being bombarded, his maneuvers will render any SAR attempt useless. In this case, the only and still best solution is through cluster sorting and analysis.
 
I have a Blade 400 RC chopper.. And have been able to mimic part of this.. I dont think any actual piloted chopper can do this without tearing itself apart.

Lol, based on models, that chopper is more maneuverable than the J-20 and T-50 :D
 
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I have a Blade 400 RC chopper.. And have been able to mimic part of this.. I dont think any actual piloted chopper can do this without tearing itself apart.
Wait about 90 seconds into the vid...

17 Year Old RC Pilot Stuns Crowd - YouTube

So according to our man who felled for that J-20 model, EVERYBODY are fools for going after the delta wings, canards, twin vertical stabs, and TVC.
 
if memory serves... ww2 dogfights were just like that ..
We should 'enshrine' these words...Somehow...

Looking from the air frame design, J-20 is definitely a good dog fighter, better than F-22 and Pak-FA. Canard and big wing will give it excellent control at lower speed and angle of attack.

J-20: Flight Testing! - YouTube
Well, at least the RC plane has some evidence base in real physics, but your opinion is just your opinion.
And to think that they were 'Thanked' as 'useful' posts...:lol:...More like should be 'tanked' for knowledge and understanding of real physics.
 
We should 'enshrine' these words...Somehow...


And to think that they were 'Thanked' as 'useful' posts...:lol:...More like should be 'tanked' for knowledge and understanding of real physics.


I think the J-20 ( an achievement in its own right) has dropped the last drop in the glass of chinese overpatriotism and pride.
If nothing else that is already the major J-20 achievement.

What I have noticed before though and again and again, is an over expression of bravado without equal. I remember mentioning before that one should not discard the established in favour of the new.

It is not just the toys that make a fighting force. It is the way one uses them.

by taking a far stretched example, I could say with a degree of confidence that in a fictional scenario where a couple of nato countries go up against chinese forces (even without 5th and 4.5++ gen planes), the outcome would be so profoundly one sided that our chinese friends would be speechless for some time.

heck .. half of the training our guys got was about understanding what the weapon is, and what it does. and then they went to international and bilateral training to find out what others have found out about the weapon.

In exercises US pilots were surprised to see ways HAF used their F-16s and USAF didn't . On the other hand HAF pilots found out how the F-16 can be so incredibly deadly when it is part of a cooperating larger package.

E.G. HAF F-16s are the superiority fighters in their homeland, but working with the F-15s pilots realise the potential coverage and deadly combinations of tactics that can be deployed even against deadlier aircraft such as the SU-xx or the EF-2000 and what a force multiplier a superiority fighter can be.. far beyond its own fighting capabilities.

its not the weapons that make the army.. its the men ..
 
I think the J-20 ( an achievement in its own right) has dropped the last drop in the glass of chinese overpatriotism and pride.
If nothing else that is already the major J-20 achievement.

What I have noticed before though and again and again, is an over expression of bravado without equal. I remember mentioning before that one should not discard the established in favour of the new.

It is not just the toys that make a fighting force. It is the way one uses them.

by taking a far stretched example, I could say with a degree of confidence that in a fictional scenario where a couple of nato countries go up against chinese forces (even without 5th and 4.5++ gen planes), the outcome would be so profoundly one sided that our chinese friends would be speechless for some time.

heck .. half of the training our guys got was about understanding what the weapon is, and what it does. and then they went to international and bilateral training to find out what others have found out about the weapon.

In exercises US pilots were surprised to see ways HAF used their F-16s and USAF didn't . On the other hand HAF pilots found out how the F-16 can be so incredibly deadly when it is part of a cooperating larger package.

E.G. HAF F-16s are the superiority fighters in their homeland, but working with the F-15s pilots realise the potential coverage and deadly combinations of tactics that can be deployed even against deadlier aircraft such as the SU-xx or the EF-2000 and what a force multiplier a superiority fighter can be.. far beyond its own fighting capabilities.

its not the weapons that make the army.. its the men ..
LOL who cares about your fictional story. In reality China smashed the USA and UN forces so badly in the Korea War they went on the biggest and fastest retreat in their whole military history! So speechless was the USA after Korean War and Vietnam War that Nixon came begging to Mao to normalize relations and before you know it PRC became UN security council permanent member!
 
LOL who cares about your fictional story. In reality China smashed the USA and UN forces so badly in the Korea War they went on the biggest and fastest retreat in their whole military history! So speechless was the USA after Korean War and Vietnam War that Nixon came begging to Mao to normalize relations and before you know it PRC became UN security council permanent member!

am.. not quite ..
 
What you are asking require us to go back to the basics, which am certain is abhorrent to most people, here and on other forums elsewhere, because they usually come to these places with minds ALREADY made up. So please bear with me...

radar_rcs_simple_shapes.jpg


The top line -- the smoothest one -- represent the sphere, or the diameter of a cylinder. Our Chinese members of this forum have taken this to mean that the sphere (shape) or the curvature (surface topography) are the worst in terms of RCS production.

NOTHING can be further from the truth.

What the sphere (or diameter on a cylinder) represent is UNIFORMITY and CONSISTENCY in terms of radiation. They are usually employed as standards for measurements and calibration of just about anything involving radar.

For the illustration above, we have one thing in common for those simple shapes: Surface wave inducers. And that the RCS graphs for each shape are non-rotational with the radar signal going 'left-right', if you will.

rcs_plates.jpg


Tilt the plate enough and we will have an RCS that is far lower than the sphere when the plate will present only one edge diffraction signal: The edge facing the radar. But continuing in rotating the plate and eventually the plate will present the 'full Monty' to the radar, producing an RCS far far far greater than the sphere.

The same argument applies to all of the above shapes, not that all of them will produce an RCS greater than the sphere while under rotation, but the lesson remains: Uniformity and Consistency. In radar detection and data processing, variables and variations of any kind are natural attention attractants.

The ogive (oh-ghee-vee) may have a natural RCS lower than the sphere regardless of rotational aspect angles -- MAY because we have not touch size. But the ogive shape have three radiation modes: Surface, Specular and Edge, with four locations: two sides and two points.

Same thing with the plate except that when the plate is in 'full Monty' to the radar, there will be no surface wave behaviors whereas with the ogive, even if the ogive is completely perpendicular to the seeking radar, surface topography via curvature will induce surface wave behaviors and will deny the seeking radar some measure of detection.

For the double-rounded cone, we have three modes of radiation: Surface, Plate, and Edge. And these radiators: Two points, four plates, and two curvatures.

I will leave the other shapes as entertaining mental exercise for interested readers to figure out.

Keep in mind that the shape illustration is non-rotational. Now we will add in the '10-lambda' rule...

sphere_wave_behav_1.jpg


What the '10-lambda' (wavelength) says is that if the diameter (sphere or cylinder) is less than 10-wavelengths -- regardless of wavelengths -- then the 'creeping wave' behavior will occur. If the diameter is greater than 10-wavelengths, then the creeping wave behavior WILL NOT occur. So for the diameter (sphere or cylinder) there will be a situation where the sphere will have only one radiation mode for the seeking radar: Specular. And this is regardless of rotational aspect angles.

Now apply the '10-lambda' rule to all of the above shapes while each is under rotation.

Now amplify EVERYTHING above a million times because we are dealing with a complex body call an 'aircraft'.

An aircraft is a symmetrical but irregular body. People must understand this. Irregularity produces uncertainty which produces variations which will naturally attract attentions. This is inevitable for an aircraft whose surface topography contains rare instances of discrete of any of the above shapes but usually far worse: Combinations of those shapes.

The result is that IF our goal is to control the behaviors of these radiation patterns, we must first understand the behaviors and we started with Ufimtsev. Since we cannot avoid the plate and its accompanying edges, aka 'wings' for example, we should try to contain their numbers and avoid placing them in clusters. This led us to the next rules: Containment of radiation modes. Avoidance of radiation clusters.

Now watch the bloodbaths between the radar and aerodynamic geeks.

Nowhere am I saying that the American 'stealth' aircrafts are the ones the world should go by. What I am saying is that if a foreign power want to enter the 'stealth' arena, it would behoove said 'stealth' fighter aspirant to return to the basics, study how we did it, self examine the technological capabilities, and give it a go. But do not think that the product is beyond critical examinations by observers especially when they have at least one generation of this technology as an unofficial standard to measure all 'stealth' aspirants.


These are burst data and while they can be intercepted, the bursts are so brief that at best they could be used as an warning, not as a locator.
To all PDF members we have nothing information about J-20, for e.g. what kind of RAM coating is applied on J-20, what kind of RAS structure J-20 have, we don't have even official specification about J-20
And i asked one question to Mr.gambit, you talked about surface creeping wave,then what about these surface creeping wave acted on the surface of F-22, F-35, PakFA, you shows us that these surface creeping wave only interfere on the surface of J-20, you laugh at Chinese physics, and i laugh at your American physics:woot::woot::woot:
 
To all PDF members we have nothing information about J-20, for e.g. what kind of RAM coating is applied on J-20, what kind of RAS structure J-20 have, we don't have even official specification about J-20
And i asked one question to Mr.gambit, you talked about surface creeping wave,then what about these surface creeping wave acted on the surface of F-22, F-35, PakFA, you shows us that these surface creeping wave only interfere on the surface of J-20, you laugh at Chinese physics, and i laugh at your American physics:woot::woot::woot:
Are you serious? Do you really to tell every readers that you interpreted what I said to mean ONLY for the J-20? How old are you? 12?
 
Are you serious? Do you really to tell every readers that you interpreted what I said to mean ONLY for the J-20? How old are you? 12?
but you intentionally targeted the J-20 weakness, btw no plane is perfect, even f-22 and f-35 have their own weakness
 
We should 'enshrine' these words...Somehow...


And to think that they were 'Thanked' as 'useful' posts...:lol:...More like should be 'tanked' for knowledge and understanding of real physics.

Agent orange sniffer wouldn't know the first thing about science. All your posts are quoted from other forums. You have zero knowledge. All your posts are mental mastubations.

Are you serious? Do you really to tell every readers that you interpreted what I said to mean ONLY for the J-20? How old are you? 12?

Says a 40 year old geezer that can't get laid, 24/7 on PDF.
 
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