Chengdu J-10 Multirole Fighter Air Craft News & Discussions

[Owais]

do the j-10s come with ToT?
and is pakistan going to manufacture any part of the j-10s in pakistan?

there is no need for full TOT as we are not getting it in huge numbers. TOT is economically feasible when you are getting 150+ jets

 

[hazi]

but is pakistan going to manufacture any of the parts

 

[SBD-3]

but is pakistan going to manufacture any of the parts

I Think we ll end up manufacturing FC-20 bcause
1)If we were offered grippen and rafael PAF refused them Hint Hint!
2)FC-20 share a lot with JF-17
3)With JXX ready in a few years China will switch over to JXX with FC-20 being handed over to Pakistan

any one with other views

 

[Munir]

Just inside info...

Gripen is pushed out of India competition by the US. Pentagon ordered Israeli forms not to join Gripen NG_I(ndia) so the Indians will have less compaibility with MKI electronics... I be NG will be offered to Pakistan as soon as Saab understands the impact...

 

[Manticore]

Just inside info...

Gripen is pushed out of India competition by the US. Pentagon ordered Israeli forms not to join Gripen NG_I(ndia) so the Indians will have less compaibility with MKI electronics... I be NG will be offered to Pakistan as soon as Saab understands the impact...

wouldnt paf be more interested in the swedish avionics rather than the plane if french deal does not go through for fc20 and jf17 block2?

 

[Munir]

I think that part is already indirectly covered by getting Saab2000. They will link every plane in the future so in he end you talk about avionic set...

 

[SBD-3]

wouldnt paf be more interested in the swedish avionics rather than the plane if french deal does not go through for fc20 and jf17 block2?

Well PAF is preety hopeful about french deal cuz here well get the avionics of rafael and M88 engine for not only JFs but also FCs and it will greatly help PAF with knowledge and designing in its own advanced engines

 

[hj786]

I Think we ll end up manufacturing FC-20 bcause
1)If we were offered grippen and rafael PAF refused them Hint Hint!
2)FC-20 share a lot with JF-17
3)With JXX ready in a few years China will switch over to JXX with FC-20 being handed over to Pakistan

any one with other views

FC-20 will share NOTHING with JF-17 except MAYBE a few circuit boards and antennae.
Take one single look at J-10 and JF-17, what can they possibly have in common except some minor avionics? Who says J-XX will be ready in a few years?

 

[PAFAce]

FC-20 will share NOTHING with JF-17 except MAYBE a few circuit boards and antennae.
Take one single look at J-10 and JF-17, what can they possibly have in common except some minor avionics? Who says J-XX will be ready in a few years?

hj786, while I won't comment on how much commonality the FC-20 and JF-17 will have (due to lack of sufficient in-depth knowledge of either), I will say that the appearance of two aircraft can be vastly different, and yet there could be lots of commonality. I believe Hasnain was basing his arguments on he fact that both aircraft were designed by Chengdu Aircraft Industry Corporation. As in the case of, say, the F-16 and the F-35 or the F-35 and the F-22, there is bound to be some commonality in the designs.

For example, you'd be amazed at how much these big corporations (LM, Boeing, L3, Honeywell etc.) re-use software code. The theory is, if it ain't broken, don't fix it, and it saves them precious manpower and man hours for designing, developing and testing. The same is true for certain electrical elements as well, such as the Environment Control, Auxiliary Power Unit etc. There has got to be some commonality between the two, even if unintentional. However, I don't believe that this will be enough to merit a production line in Pakistan. We simply don't need a production line for the FC-20 (not immediately, at least), unless we suddenly find loads of cash lying around.

 

[Arsalan]

also to add i dont think taht we wil be able to run so many projects at home all at one time!

we are producing JF, SAB and F16 induction will also increase the work load and therefore running a new project with limited resources will not be possible! that is what i think!
anyhow i dont think it is a case that as we are only inductiong 36 of them so we wont produce them at home because the intial order of 36 is just an evaluation order and the number can certainly go up to 80 - 90 planes!

regards!

 

[Ghazy]

Maybe number exceeds from 80-90 to around 120-130 depending upon Indian MMRCA.

 

[mean_bird]

wouldnt paf be more interested in the swedish avionics rather than the plane if french deal does not go through for fc20 and jf17 block2?

Well PAF is preety hopeful about french deal cuz here well get the avionics of rafael and M88 engine for not only JFs but also FCs and it will greatly help PAF with knowledge and designing in its own advanced engines

I would be surprised if there are french/western equipments on FC-20. I think its going to be a purely Chinese one.

FC-20 will share NOTHING with JF-17 except MAYBE a few circuit boards and antennae.
Take one single look at J-10 and JF-17, what can they possibly have in common except some minor avionics? Who says J-XX will be ready in a few years?

Lets see- the radars are similar, KLJ-7 is a derivative of KLJ-10. The FBW system, sensors and instruments, etc of current J-10 and JF-17 are similar. The fire similar weapons so quite a bit is similar. Besides, maintenance is much more concerned about things we cannot see i.e those thousands of parts that make up a plane. They might look so different externally, but what we see externally aint the real serviceability issue.

Let's see what the FC-20 will offer. Its still a bit far away to speculate anything at this stage.

 

[a1b2c145]

FC-20 will share NOTHING with JF-17 except MAYBE a few circuit boards and antennae.
Take one single look at J-10 and JF-17, what can they possibly have in common except some minor avionics? Who says J-XX will be ready in a few years?

Somebody say that JF-17 LOOKS like a composition of F-16, F-18 and F-7.
So J10B changing from J10A is more like a composition of J10A,J11B and F-16,am i right?
Regards

 

[TOPGUN]

Somebody say that JF-17 LOOKS like a composition of F-16, F-18 and F-7.
So J10B changing from J10A is more like a composition of J10A,J11B and F-16,am i right?
Regards

Well offcourse j-10a and also looks like f-16 a bit!

 

[SBD-3]

FC-20 will share NOTHING what can they possibly have in common except some minor avionics? Who says J-XX will be ready in a few years?

China's Jian-12 or J-12 (F-12 for foreign markets) is 5th generation multirole jet due to fly by 2012 and enter service by 2015. It has been codenamed XXJ by US's Office of Naval Intelligence (ONI). J-12 is destined to be China's top-end fighter along with the Su-30MKK when it will be introduced.

For now, China's top-end plane remains J-10, which is basically an Israeli airframe with Russian engines. It is still under development and it is expected that Russian content will increase extensively as the development progresses.

China has developed close ties with Russia's aerospace industry and has license produced many fighters including MiG-21 and Su-27. Their FC-1/Super 7 design is based on MiG-33 (which was rejected by Soviet Air Force). Earlier Chinese planes are the Q-5 Fantan, J-8 Finback and FBC-1. The FBC-1 was their latest attempt, and was'nt successful - the Su-27 filled in for it. Considering their track record, it may well be possible that the J-12 ends up being a re-christened MiG MFI. MAPO-MIG is already involved in the J-10 program. MFI is one of the world's 5th generation designs. However, considering the project's timeframe, it seems unlikely (they would'nt need 15 years to do this).


MiG's MFI project, (project 1.42) was first unveiled to the public in 1999. The production of this promising design unforunately was cancelled due to lack of funds.



Not much is known about J-12 right now - the aircraft is still going through initial work. The project is at is where the USAF ATF (Advanced Tactical Fighter) Program, which lead to the F-22A, was in ~1983. Virtually everything is still wide open. Sources within combat aircraft manufacturer Chengdu confirm that it is looking at a twin-engined design and that they are examining both single and two crew configuration.


Stealthiness is an integral part of all new fighter designs and J-12 is no exception. The engines are most likely to be Russian with Thrust Vectoring. Stealth and thrust vectoring are two features that are a must in all aircraft being designed today. Interestingly, Chinese aircraft designers will actually perform a 'generation leap' if J-12 goes into service with PLAAF. All aircraft produced in China before (apart from licenced Su-27) have been 3rd generation aircraft. Chengdu will have to take Western/Israeli/Russian help to make J-12 truly 5th generation.

J-12's immediate rival will be India's MCA (Medium Combat Aircraft). It too is expected to be a 5th generation aircraft. While the fate of MCA is not clear, J-12 is probably under active development.

J-12 / XXJ 5th Generation multirole fighter - China

and to talk about a few circuits here are some of the many commonalites that i have been able to get out
1)BM/KG300G electronic counter-measures pod
2)KZ900 (electronic reconnaissance) pod.
3)infra-red search and track (IRST).
4)The radar is believed to be designed by the Nanjing Research Institute of Electronic Technology (NRIET), designated KLJ-10 and a smaller variant is claimed to be installed on the JF-17 light-weight fighter (KLJ-7)
5)helmet-mounted display (HMD)
6)ejection seat which is zero-zero capable
7) "hands on throttle and stick" (HOTAS)
8)fly-by-wire flight control system
9) In a rather unusual agreement, the single seat version of the J-10 and the twin seat version of J-10 were designed by two different general designers; Song Wencong for the single seat version and Yang Wei (杨&#20255 for the twin seat version, also the general designer of the JF-17 light-weight fighter
10)DSI intake
11)ECM Housing
12)WS-10A (future engine for both ACs) with WS-13 also being a possibility
13) FILAT (Forward-looking Infra-red Laser Attack Targeting)
a few things that i was able to point out more than few circuits (No Offence Intended)