Chengdu J-10 Multirole Fighter Air Craft News & Discussions

[baron von richtofen]

it is signed i remember galani singed it in 2011 i think so in tour of china

could you provide with a source?

as i am unsure myself.

 

[[--Leo--]]

could you provide with a source?

as i am unsure myself.

http://news.outlookindia.com/items.aspx?artid=687957
China-Pak in MoU to Develop Stealth Variant of JF-17 Thunder | ASIAN DEFENCE NEWS

 

[Thunder_Rider]

India-France giant fighter jet deal stalled: report - The West Australian

NEW DELHI (AFP) - India's negotiations with France's Dassault Aviation on a $12-billion deal for Rafale fighter jets have stalled due to disagreements over the production of the planes in India, a report said Friday.

The defence deal, one of the biggest ever, was to see the manufacture of the first 18 of the jets in France with the remainder to be produced under licence by Hindustan Aeronautics Limited (HAL), a state-run Indian aerospace behemoth.

The Indian Express newspaper, citing anonymous sources in its report, said that Dassault had refused to take responsibility for the 108 jets to be manufactured by HAL, sparking a row with New Delhi.

The French firm reportedly told Indian officials that New Delhi would have to negotiate two contracts, one with Dassault for 18 fighters and the other with HAL for the remaining 108 aircraft.

The defence ministry "completely rejected this suggestion and made it clear to Dassault that it (the French company) will be solely responsible for the sale and delivery of all 126 aircraft," the newspaper reported, citing sources.

Dassault is thought to have reservations about the ability of HAL, a firm renowned for its inefficiencies, to handle the complex manufacturing and technology transfers which are a crucial part of the deal.

The Rafale beat off stiff competition from six rivals from Russia, the US and Europe last year when India selected the French fighter to replace its ageing fleet.

Its main rival, the Eurofighter made by European group EADS, has remained in India and is still hoping to bag the deal in case Dassault is unable to conclude the negotiations successfully.

A Dassault spokeswoman said she was unable to comment immediately on the report when contacted by AFP.

The Rafale has carried out bombing missions in Afghanistan, Libya and most recently in Mali, where it is currently flying sorties targeting Islamist militants.

India's air force chief said in February that the country hopes to sign the deal with Dassault Aviation by the middle of the year.

________________________________________________

Maybe this^^^^^^^^ is the reason why we have no recent update on the procurement of J-10Bs by PAF.

 

[Zarvan]

India-France giant fighter jet deal stalled: report - The West Australian

NEW DELHI (AFP) - India's negotiations with France's Dassault Aviation on a $12-billion deal for Rafale fighter jets have stalled due to disagreements over the production of the planes in India, a report said Friday.

The defence deal, one of the biggest ever, was to see the manufacture of the first 18 of the jets in France with the remainder to be produced under licence by Hindustan Aeronautics Limited (HAL), a state-run Indian aerospace behemoth.

The Indian Express newspaper, citing anonymous sources in its report, said that Dassault had refused to take responsibility for the 108 jets to be manufactured by HAL, sparking a row with New Delhi.

The French firm reportedly told Indian officials that New Delhi would have to negotiate two contracts, one with Dassault for 18 fighters and the other with HAL for the remaining 108 aircraft.

The defence ministry "completely rejected this suggestion and made it clear to Dassault that it (the French company) will be solely responsible for the sale and delivery of all 126 aircraft," the newspaper reported, citing sources.

Dassault is thought to have reservations about the ability of HAL, a firm renowned for its inefficiencies, to handle the complex manufacturing and technology transfers which are a crucial part of the deal.

The Rafale beat off stiff competition from six rivals from Russia, the US and Europe last year when India selected the French fighter to replace its ageing fleet.

Its main rival, the Eurofighter made by European group EADS, has remained in India and is still hoping to bag the deal in case Dassault is unable to conclude the negotiations successfully.

A Dassault spokeswoman said she was unable to comment immediately on the report when contacted by AFP.

The Rafale has carried out bombing missions in Afghanistan, Libya and most recently in Mali, where it is currently flying sorties targeting Islamist militants.

India's air force chief said in February that the country hopes to sign the deal with Dassault Aviation by the middle of the year.

________________________________________________

Maybe this^^^^^^^^ is the reason why we have no recent update on the procurement of J-10Bs by PAF.

we still need J-10 b our main issue is economy if that gets better we will order it as soon as possible

 

[araz]

we still need J-10 b our main issue is economy if that gets better we will order it as soon as possible

You need to give it time to mature. Adding and relying a half baked project would be stupidity. Even the chinese have yet to induct the J10 B version in their regiments. Must be a reason for it.
Araz

 

[CrazyPaki]

You need to give it time to mature. Adding and relying a half baked project would be stupidity. Even the chinese have yet to induct the J10 B version in their regiments. Must be a reason for it.
Araz

any idea of how long it might take ?

 

[INDIAISM]

any idea of how long it might take ?

Atleast 5-7 years if you want J10 B with WS 10 Engine.....

 

[araz]

any idea of how long it might take ?

I cant be absolutely sure but the way things are going it is unlikely that you will see it before 5 yrs in PAF colours if at all.I think it is morelikely that PAF might skip it altogether and go for J31,considering the engine similarity between it and JFT . It may also be possible that PAF makes enough changes to later iterations of JFT to induct some of the capabilities of J31 and retain the later for air superiority and deep strike(that is if there is ever a role for deep strike after the induction of standoff weapons). These arepurely my views and you can agree or disagree.
Araz

 

[CrazyPaki]

I cant be absolutely sure but the way things are going it is unlikely that you will see it before 5 yrs in PAF colours if at all.I think it is morelikely that PAF might skip it altogether and go for J31,considering the engine similarity between it and JFT . It may also be possible that PAF makes enough changes to later iterations of JFT to induct some of the capabilities of J31 and retain the later for air superiority and deep strike(that is if there is ever a role for deep strike after the induction of standoff weapons). These arepurely my views and you can agree or disagree.
Araz

the idea makes a lot of sense

 

[Genesis]

Atleast 5-7 years if you want J10 B with WS 10 Engine.....

unfortunately probably. Maybe if everything goes well, not quite that long, but 4-6 years is probably a good time frame.

Though I think it will still be in time, PAK FA is not going to be mass produced like the F-35 is from what I been hearing, at least not before 2025. I could be wrong. not sure how many India will be getting, but looking at Russian numbers can't be more than 30-40 before 2025-2030. Could still be wrong.

So Pakistan still got a good 5-10 years to really induct the J-10 B into the airforce in large numbers and maybe get a few J-31s when India is inducting it's PAk FAs really into the Airforce.

Side note, funny name PAK-FA when I first read the title I thought it was a Pakistan weapon. lol I guess I know why the Indians choose the PAK FA project instead of the F-35s.

 

[Luftwaffe]

@nuclearpak @Aeronaut Could you make changes to the Title of this Thread J-10/FC-20 without MRCA it was never an MRCA.

 

[Jango]

@nuclearpak @Aeronaut Could you make changes to the Title of this Thread J-10/FC-20 without MRCA it was never an MRCA.

Well isn't it a Multi Role combat aircraft?

 

[Luftwaffe]

Well isn't it a Multi Role combat aircraft?

Doh Yes it is nevermind I had something else in mind.

 

[Glitcher]

I cant be absolutely sure but the way things are going it is unlikely that you will see it before 5 yrs in PAF colours if at all.I think it is morelikely that PAF might skip it altogether and go for J31,considering the engine similarity between it and JFT . It may also be possible that PAF makes enough changes to later iterations of JFT to induct some of the capabilities of J31 and retain the later for air superiority and deep strike(that is if there is ever a role for deep strike after the induction of standoff weapons). These arepurely my views and you can agree or disagree.
Araz

Sir with due respect i think J31 will have WS13 engine not WS10 or RD93 so situation is a bit diff i think it would be better if we have 1 or 2 sqd of j10b just to make us safe during 2015 to 2025 after that we can go for j31 because i dont see fagfa in IAF before 2022-2023 so we must have some thing to counter su30mki or super mki rest can be handled by JFT blk2 and blk3 dont you think ?
no disrespact intended you senior member and i could learn a lot from you.

 

[araz]

Sir with due respect i think J31 will have WS13 engine not WS10 or RD93 so situation is a bit diff i think it would be better if we have 1 or 2 sqd of j10b just to make us safe during 2015 to 2025 after that we can go for j31 because i dont see fagfa in IAF before 2022-2023 so we must have some thing to counter su30mki or super mki rest can be handled by JFT blk2 and blk3 dont you think ?
no disrespact intended you senior member and i could learn a lot from you.

Please read my post again. Where did I mention WS10? J31 is currently flying with RD93s. When we do get WS13/15 do you think PAF would want to continue going for RD93? Please also note the financial situation that we are in. It does not behove another platform whhich would need anothere setup of infra structure and years of practice to get used to and train pilots. People here have a tendency to think that we have a love affair with the F16, which is why we want more and more of them. That is a serious inconsideration odf the capability of the senior brass of PAF to think and act. In fact it is the consideration of the infrastructure that is already set up that is forcing PAF to continue going for more F16s. A squadron of F16 and a couple of MLUed F16s squadrons will see us safely into the period that you are mentioning. Where there is a capability gap, dont think that China will be able to fulfill that gap vis a vis IAF. So J10B will not satisfy that role. As to numbers please consider your buying power against the buying power of the Indians. You wil never win at the numbers game with them and if you try you will bankrupt yourself.
With the exception of the PAKFA all the fighters that you have mentioned can be countered with our current strategy and decent AMRAAMs. So the need for J10 remains unproven even on that count. The future war theatre will be concentrated around AWAACS interlinking of planes and secure communications as well as advanced AMRAAMS rather than too much of close in fighting. If JFT is at Par with the F16Bl15(the most maneouverable paltform that PAF has) we are in good stead in the latter scenario. Considering the delays IAF is having in inducting Rafale we dont need to rush into anything ,but concentrate on improving our economy and further improve and mature the JFT as much as is possible. I was immensely surprised to learn a few months ago an assessment from PAF insiders which seemed to suggest that the possibilities of improvement on the JFT and its advancement is much more than the J10Bs. It would really surprise me if the PAF are saying this without any proof.
Araz