Chengdu J-10 Multirole Fighter Air Craft News & Discussions

[Kompromat]

@sancho

For us : No new jet until 2020.

 

[fatman17]

What is the vision 2025 for PAF?

How many combat aircraft they want to operate? 250 thunders and 60 F-16 make it 300+ fighters. This doesn't left PAF to spend more on numbers, may be 2 more squadron of 5th gen around 2025. 350+ is a good number for a country size of pakistan. Mind you, 350+ might be lesser than current strength but overall higher in capabilities.

its not about increasing the number of combat aircraft. roughly 350-375 are servicable. its about modernization of the fleet. induct more F-16s new or upgraded, 150 Thunders Blk-1-2-3 will replace the A-5's (completed), older mirages and F-7's. J-10B/FC-20 is a possibility if it is powered by a chinese engine, the J-16 may be on offer but thats around 2025. fleet tankers, AWACS, air defence systems.

 

[PoKeMon]

its not about increasing the number of combat aircraft. roughly 350-375 are servicable. its about modernization of the fleet. induct more F-16s new or upgraded, 150 Thunders Blk-1-2-3 will replace the A-5's (completed), older mirages and F-7's. J-10B/FC-20 is a possibility if it is powered by a chinese engine, the J-16 may be on offer but thats around 2025. fleet tankers, AWACS, air defence systems.

Sir I have already stated what you infer.

350+ might be lesser than current strength but overall higher in capabilities.

However the number do matter in terms of maintenance and purchase cost. By number I am trying to figure out where is the space for new aircraft. PAF, I believe can not afford to maintain more than 350-375 4th and 4+ gen fighters and if thunders, F-16 and 2-3 sqdn of 5th gen (in future) already makes the number where is the space left to posses J-10/J-16. I dont think you have that money to waste in stop gap measures before getting hands on a cheap 5th gen fighters.

 

[fatman17]

Sir I have already stated what you infer.


However the number do matter in terms of maintenance and purchase cost. By number I am trying to figure out where is the space for new aircraft. PAF, I believe can not afford to maintain more than 350-375 4th and 4+ gen fighters and if thunders, F-16 and 2-3 sqdn of 5th gen (in future) already makes the number where is the space left to posses J-10/J-16. I dont think you have that money to waste in stop gap measures before getting hands on a cheap 5th gen fighters.

u say space for new aircraft - not in terms of new sqdns but replacement / modernization, there is plenty of space. for example, the J-10 would replace the mirage-ROSE squadron in the tactical/night attack role. J-16 could start replacing the older F-16s at some point. it is hoped that the economy will not flounder at 3-4% growth but improve if the basic economic fundamentals are improved. money is always available, not in abundance but enough. we dont want more than 20-22 combat squadrons. its about improving the technological edge.

 

[Armstrong]

u say space for new aircraft - not in terms of new sqdns but replacement / modernization, there is plenty of space. for example, the J-10 would replace the mirage-ROSE squadron in the tactical/night attack role. J-16 could start replacing the older F-16s at some point. it is hoped that the economy will not flounder at 3-4% growth but improve if the basic economic fundamentals are improved. money is always available, not in abundance but enough. we dont want more than 20-22 combat squadrons. its about improving the technological edge.

So the J-10s are still on the cards ?

But why in god's name would we go for something like the J-16 ?

 

[khanasifm]

First pic of J-10 with center line station carrying weapon instead of tank unless its Photoshopped.

 

[PoKeMon]

u say space for new aircraft - not in terms of new sqdns but replacement / modernization, there is plenty of space. for example, the J-10 would replace the mirage-ROSE squadron in the tactical/night attack role. J-16 could start replacing the older F-16s at some point. it is hoped that the economy will not flounder at 3-4% growth but improve if the basic economic fundamentals are improved. money is always available, not in abundance but enough. we dont want more than 20-22 combat squadrons. its about improving the technological edge.

I am sorry but either I am not clear or you are getting it wrong.

Say you have 250 fighters and you want to replace them. If you are inducting 250 JF-17 then where is the space for J-10. Either reduce the number of thunders say 200 Thunders and 50 J-10 or say you will have more than 250 and you are gonna increase the PAF strength in number. Here comes the cost issue.

You are saying 20-22 sqdns is what you think is optimal. That sums to 400+ odd fighters. Thunders clubbed with F-16 will sum to 310. You will then have space for 2 sqds of J-10 and another 2 sqd of 5th gen fighter. IMO thats not the best configuration. adding an additional platform just for 2 sqds is not worthy. I will suggest -

1-An additional sqd for F-16. J-10 anyhow is meant to do similar job as F-16. Also I am not sure how much value difference a J-10 will add when JF-17 Mk III will be in production.
2-Have 3 sqds of 5th gen fighter instead of 2.

That will have same technology advancement with additional 5th gen fire power(hoping a better economy around 2020).

When do you expect your F-16 to start phasing out? If its sooner than decade, J-10 comes more into picture.

 

[siegecrossbow]

Just my personal opinion: I think it is better for Pakistan to wait for J-31 (F-60). It makes sense on multiple levels. First and foremost, introducing the J-10B (FC-20) will cause maintenance issues since Pakistan will probably need to support a WS-10 variant engine. This is not a problem for the J-31, which will use WS-13 (RD-93 derivative) that will be compatible with the engines on JF-17s. Secondly, J-31 offers true Fifth gen capabilities. Given that India will introduce FGFA in the late 2010s and early 2020s time frame, it makes more sense to purchase a smaller number of capable fighters that could at least match the IAF fighters' performance.

 

[sancho]

Just my personal opinion: I think it is better for Pakistan to wait for J-31 (F-60). It makes sense on multiple levels. First and foremost, introducing the J-10B (FC-20) will cause maintenance issues since Pakistan will probably need to support a WS-10 variant engine. This is not a problem for the J-31, which will use WS-13 (RD-93 derivative) that will be compatible with the engines on JF-17s. Secondly, J-31 offers true Fifth gen capabilities. Given that India will introduce FGFA in the late 2010s and early 2020s time frame, it makes more sense to purchase a smaller number of capable fighters that could at least match the IAF fighters' performance.

That's of course the preferable way, but the problem will remain the funding, even more for a twin engined 5th gen fighter, that is far more expensive to procure and to operate. The fact that it uses the same engine as JF 17 will only be a small advantage.
A J10C (IF it will come with CFTs), will offer more capabilities at least over JF 17 and would be more affordable.

 

[Kompromat]

That's of course the preferable way, but the problem will remain the funding, even more for a twin engined 5th gen fighter, that is far more expensive to procure and to operate. The fact that it uses the same engine as JF 17 will only be a small advantage.
A J10C (IF it will come with CFTs), will offer more capabilities at least over JF 17 and would be more affordable.

Time for the J-10B/C has come and gone for PAF. They ought to save up for a leap towards a 5th gen platform.

 

[dexter]

Just my personal opinion: I think it is better for Pakistan to wait for J-31 (F-60). It makes sense on multiple levels. First and foremost, introducing the J-10B (FC-20) will cause maintenance issues since Pakistan will probably need to support a WS-10 variant engine. This is not a problem for the J-31, which will use WS-13 (RD-93 derivative) that will be compatible with the engines on JF-17s. Secondly, J-31 offers true Fifth gen capabilities. Given that India will introduce FGFA in the late 2010s and early 2020s time frame, it makes more sense to purchase a smaller number of capable fighters that could at least match the IAF fighters' performance.

Agree
Its better to stay focus on JF-17 development and in next 10 years if our economy grows (InsahaaAllah) we can go for J-31(F-60)

 

[nomi007]

 

[graphican]

View attachment 14200

Is it real? Doesn't seem to be photoshop but I cannot believe I am looking at twin engine J-10!!??!!

 

[Basel]

J-10B/C may be good plane but things around Pakistan and in tech world is evolving to fast and sadly Pakistan don't have funds to finance what all products it want, therefore PAF may wait for 5th gen option which is the real future ahead and those who are pushing J-31 as option specifically to PAF kindly provide some credible source, because the contract Pakistan signed with China never mentioned for J-31 it said new stealth plane and China at that time had plenty on design stage, so only PAF official can tell which 5th gen plane PAF will go for.

Further with news emerging of KSA getting interested in JF-17s could change the dimension of JF-17 program and could take it to more modern plane than J-10B/C.

 

[SQ8]

Is it real? Doesn't seem to be photoshop but I cannot believe I am looking at twin engine J-10!!??!!

Photoshop, posted before.. debunked before. but people just need to post stuff for the heck of it.