Chengdu J-10 Multirole Fighter Air Craft News & Discussions

[sancho]

J-10B/C Vigorous Dragon

...(J-10C) with enhanced 4th generation electronics including a more powerful AESA radar, more composite material and a more powerful engine was under development.

What if...

...J10B doesn't include an AESA yet?

The rumors were always unclear about PESA/AESA and the engine isn't ready either. So is it possible that J10B is a stop gap with the external modifications, to start the production, while the latter C version will be the one with indigenous engine and AESA radar?
In this case @Dazzler s info's would make sense again, that the J10As will be converted to J10Cs and not to B's, because then they would get the whole upgrade of external and internal changes, rather than keep using the same Russian engine and maybe even the same KJ10?

And IF J10B is just a stopgap now, could that also be a reason why PAF had not signed an order yet?

 

[Dazzler]

What if...

...J10B doesn't include an AESA yet?

The rumors were always unclear about PESA/AESA and the engine isn't ready either. So is it possible that J10B is a stop gap with the external modifications, to start the production, while the latter C version will be the one with indigenous engine and AESA radar?
In this case @Dazzler s info's would make sense again, that the J10As will be converted to J10Cs and not to B's, because then they would get the whole upgrade of external and internal changes, rather than keep using the same Russian engine and maybe even the same KJ10?

And IF J10B is just a stopgap now, could that also be a reason why PAF had not signed an order yet?

I recall KJ-2000, KJ-200 and ZDK-03 designer's interview where he mentioned that Chinese went directly to AESA technology skipping PESA in the process for both AWACS and fighter aircraft.

 

[SQ8]

What if...

...J10B doesn't include an AESA yet?

The rumors were always unclear about PESA/AESA and the engine isn't ready either. So is it possible that J10B is a stop gap with the external modifications, to start the production, while the latter C version will be the one with indigenous engine and AESA radar?
In this case @Dazzler s info's would make sense again, that the J10As will be converted to J10Cs and not to B's, because then they would get the whole upgrade of external and internal changes, rather than keep using the same Russian engine and maybe even the same KJ10?

And IF J10B is just a stopgap now, could that also be a reason why PAF had not signed an order yet?

The stop gap was never going to come circa 2011. There were never funds. Perhaps things have changed but I still believe that the PAF will not be going after the J-10 at all and instead will stick with the F-16 and JF-17 mix till it has the funds to pursue a 5th gen asset.

I recall KJ-2000, KJ-200 and ZDK-03 designer's interview where he mentioned that Chinese went directly to AESA technology skipping PESA in the process for both AWACS and fighter aircraft.

the AESA on the ZDK-03 is "incomplete". Its arrays are all "active" but can only scan vertically. Which is why it has the rotadome to ensure 360 coverage. Thus, it still has gaps in its coverage momentarily while the E-2D has possibly the best coverage of any AEW system so far.

 

[Dazzler]

The stop gap was never going to come circa 2011. There were never funds. Perhaps things have changed but I still believe that the PAF will not be going after the J-10 at all and instead will stick with the F-16 and JF-17 mix till it has the funds to pursue a 5th gen asset.



the AESA on the ZDK-03 is "incomplete". Its arrays are all "active" but can only scan vertically. Which is why it has the rotadome to ensure 360 coverage. Thus, it still has gaps in its coverage momentarily while the E-2D has possibly the best coverage of any AEW system so far.

cost saving measure, two rotating ESA arrays instead of three fixed ones.

Interview with Vice Chief Designer of ZDK03 (AEW for export) He Said: airborne early warning radar in our country as a breakthrough, achieved airborne radar equipment from the mechanical to the active phased array scanning across, did not engage in passive phased array, first in the world equipped with a two-dimensional active phased array early warning radar, that the radar beam in the horizontal direction and the height direction can be electronically scanned, which also led to the fighter fire control radar equipment using active phased array.

 

[SQ8]

cost saving measure, two rotating ESA arrays instead of three fixed ones.

Nope, Cost saving was never the deal.. technical issue with the design.

 

[Donatello]

Nope, Cost saving was never the deal.. technical issue with the design.

So how does it compare with the ERIEYE ESA, that is fixed and can scan in horizontal and vertical?

 

[SQ8]

So how does it compare with the ERIEYE ESA, that is fixed and can scan in horizontal and vertical?

Not as sophisticated in terms of beamforming or simultaneous modes. But as such makes up for it with a faster scan rate and full 360 coverage(The Erieye is closer to 340 using some techniques)

 

[Donatello]

Not as sophisticated in terms of beamforming or simultaneous modes. But as such makes up for it with a faster scan rate and full 360 coverage(The Erieye is closer to 340 using some techniques)

Any plans on getting any more AWACs from China? Or same old funding issues?

 

[araz]

Any plans on getting any more AWACs from China? Or same old funding issues?

Do we need anymore? I think we have enough numbers. However I do remember at the time when ZKD 03 was bought one of the reasons that was dlgiven was that we would be able to research more into it and be able to modify thimgs as per our needs. As such once we start to tinker about with it and do improve it (big if!!!) Iam sure those changez canbe incorporated into the ZKD 03.
Araz

 

[Dazzler]

ZDK-03 also has a longer search and track range than Erieye, exactly how long? is anyone's guess

 

[Donatello]

ZDK-03 also has a longer search and track range than Erieye, exactly how long? is anyone's guess

One, the exact figures would never be revealed.

Second, it depends on what the search range is for. A 747 Jumbo or a Mig 21 size target?

 

[Dazzler]

unless Alan Warnes is allowed to reveal it like he did so with the jf-17 AoA

 

[PoKeMon]

What is the vision 2025 for PAF?

How many combat aircraft they want to operate? 250 thunders and 60 F-16 make it 300+ fighters. This doesn't left PAF to spend more on numbers, may be 2 more squadron of 5th gen around 2025. 350+ is a good number for a country size of pakistan. Mind you, 350+ might be lesser than current strength but overall higher in capabilities.

 

[sancho]

The stop gap was never going to come circa 2011. There were never funds. Perhaps things have changed but I still believe that the PAF will not be going after the J-10 at all and instead will stick with the F-16 and JF-17 mix till it has the funds to pursue a 5th gen asset.

I think so too and I know about the funding issue, but that's the PAF side, I just tried to point out, that there also might be a Chinese side of the problem, by not having the fighter ready at a technical level as is should be. I am saying for quiet some time that J10B doesn't add too much to PAF compared to JF17, but if the radar isn't ready either, it surely have no importance at all. A J10C then again, IF it really can come with CFTs, AESA and the new engine, will offer clearly more to PAF, although still not a game changer like a 5th gen fighter of course.

Some pics from the MP forum:

 

[monitor]

Fuel dumping