Chengdu J-10 Multirole Fighter Air Craft News & Discussions

[nitetrogen70]

so in the end which engine will be used for this plane ? i heard people say ws13 while others saying ws10b or something along those lines ?

 

[ziaulislam]

ws-10, ws-13 is for thunder.......
but we still arent sure whether its ready or not, as china is still buying engines from russia..most say its replacement and that ws-10 is already in function though

 

[Nishan_101]

Honestly speaking I was with the procedure that if PAC and CAC has completed the JF-17 last PT-06 with composites, RD-93B, Retractable IFRP and FLIR(may be if available) then after its successful flight test they will going to produce its dual seat with all hte same things that are present on the single seat version. Then PAC has started production on their own for about 110 JF-17s Block-Is with some 30 Dual seat and a separate procurement of 50 Dual seat as AJTs for CCS more over they have only going for the 28 old F-16s Block-15s with the 31 existing being upgraded till 2010 with the funds from PAF side along with the weapons. So if PAC has planned the JF-17 procurement like: 110 JF-17s Block-Is with 30 Dual seat then 110 JF-17s Block-IIs + 30 Dual seat and 110 JF-17s Block-IIIs + some 30 Dual seat(Thing might have stealth as well). And like now they can place an order for 50-70 FC-20P that can they will going to produce at PAC Kamra with CACs help then the situation in 2020 will be totally different.
PAF would have a fleet like that:
330 JF-17s all Blocks
59 F-16s Block-15s MLU-3s
70+ FC-20Ps

 

[manofwar]

I dont know why people are always comparing LCA and JF 17....
It's not like they will be facing each other much.

Besides, LCA and JF 17 were built for different missions-
JF 17 to provide a cheap, multi role fighter to PAF
and LCA to provide IAF with a cheap workhorse......

A more proper comparison will be Rafale vs JF 17 (as Rafale is the multi role fighter of IAF)

 

[SBD-3]

if j-10 is a copy of lavi then LCA is definetly a copy of mirage=
is that your slogan now? instead of pressing slogans into biased posts, why dont
you try to prove it as i've done here? -



Uploaded with ImageShack.us

lavi -


Uploaded with ImageShack.us

sure there could be some differences, but the basic design and airframe structure
is copied off from lavi no doubt.

and what? LCA copy of mirage?
the only common factors between these are that they're both tail-less delta
wing designs and both use a single engine, check this out -


Uploaded with ImageShack.us

courtesy: stealth spy

next time, ziaulislam, back up your troll with visual proof, at least!

look at the picture and see for you self that how J-10 differs from Lavi. One word, rather than running to rubbish wikipedia and ratshit forum.Better spend some $$$ on purchasing some good material about the things (of course if you have them).

 

[MastanKhan]

Hi,

Pakistani posters are again showing their ignorance and lack of knowledge----just by talking tough, you don't prove nothing---just by circling certain parts of aircraft---does not mean anything----.

Lavi was a 80's design---thousands of man hours put into it---a perfect oppurtunity for the israelis to make some money out of it and the chinese to take on a flying design---bring about some needed changes in the design to make it a 21st century aircraft----.

For you superstar----when the israelis stole the mirage design from switzeland and came up with their own aircraft----those blue prints weighed over two tons of paper only----. The israelis used the design and came up with their own version---they had scientists as well---very capable scientists---but they didnot want to design an aircraft on their own---they made it similiar to mirage 3---they also feared sanctions and then they decided to go for a next generation aircraft---they had the model of the F16 and the mirage 2000 in front of them---they came up with ther lavi.

Now for the chinese---what other attraction they would have with israeli aviation other than the lavi design and israeli aviation engineers who have worked on it----. China needs a modern single engine aircraft design----israel has just shelved one.

WHAT I DON'T UNDERSTAND IS THAT WHERE DO YOU PEOPLE GET THIS IDEA THAT THERE IS SOMETHING BAD ABOUT THIS EXCHANGE----why does this foolish thinking keep popping up in you r discussions all the time.

Suppose israel didnot have the complete permission of the united states to share this design----wouldn't it be prudent on the part of the chinese and israelis to make some changes---and as it is a 10-15 years newer project---why not enhance the design parameters and merge them with a newer technology.

I mean to say it would be utterly stupid on the part of the chinese not to have used an existing design---whence they are known for that in the past and present---and you pakistanis are coming up with your own convulated and twisted views and perception---.

If it walks like a duck---if it quacks like a duck---it is a duck.

Who teaches you people these things----is there a school that you guys go to or you people just simply have no exposure to the world of technology and technical designs---the effort put into stealing existing designs---the espionage that goes into the effort---the end products that are similiar but are not.

The speed that this project has come into fruitation must leave no doubt in anyone's mind as to what the source of the fountainhead.

 

[SBD-3]

Hi,

Pakistani posters are again showing their ignorance and lack of knowledge----just by talking tough, you don't prove nothing---just by circling certain parts of aircraft---does not mean anything----.

Lavi was a 80's design---thousands of man hours put into it---a perfect oppurtunity for the israelis to make some money out of it and the chinese to take on a flying design---bring about some needed changes in the design to make it a 21st century aircraft----.

For you superstar----when the israelis stole the mirage design from switzeland and came up with their own aircraft----those blue prints weighed over two tons of paper only----. The israelis used the design and came up with their own version---.

Now for the chinese---what other attraction they would have with israeli aviation other than the lavi design and israeli aviation engineers who have worked on it----. China needs a modern single engine aircraft design----israel has just shelved one.

WHAT I DON'T UNDERSTAND IS THAT WHERE DO YOU PEOPLE GET THIS IDEA THAT THERE IS SOMETHING BAD ABOUT THIS EXCHANGE----why does this foolish thinking keep popping up in you r discussions all the time.

Suppose israel didnot have the complete permission of the united states to share this design----wouldn't it be prudent on the part of the chinese and israelis to make some changes---and as it is a 10-15 years newer project---why not enhance the design parameters and merge them with a newer technology.

I mean to say it would be utterly stupid on the part of the chinese not to have used an existing design---whence they are known for that in the past and present---and you pakistanis are coming up with your own convulated and twisted views and perception---.

If it walks like a duck---if it quacks like a duck---it is a duck.

Who teaches you people these things----is there a school that you guys go to or you people just simply have no exposure to the world of technology and technical designs---the effort put into stealing existing designs---the espionage that goes into the effort---the end products that are similiar but are not.

The speed that this project has come into fruitation must leave no doubt in anyone's mind as to what the source of the fountainhead.

Absolutely agree with you, it doesn't matter you get it either way. As long as it serves you well, it is good. LAVI, bench marked against F-16 was indeed a superb design. And just to add, all those who think Israeli design would be inferior. The Israelis lacked radar skills but their design and requirements far exceeded than that of most air forces. It was IDFAF who converted a poorly conceived interceptor (Mirage III) into a global superstar.

 

[PakShaheen79]

Where is FC-20 in all this debate of Where did J-10 come from? Guys, please stick to the topic!

 

[nitetrogen70]

Hi,

Pakistani posters are again showing their ignorance and lack of knowledge----just by talking tough, you don't prove nothing---just by circling certain parts of aircraft---does not mean anything----.

Lavi was a 80's design---thousands of man hours put into it---a perfect oppurtunity for the israelis to make some money out of it and the chinese to take on a flying design---bring about some needed changes in the design to make it a 21st century aircraft----.

For you superstar----when the israelis stole the mirage design from switzeland and came up with their own aircraft----those blue prints weighed over two tons of paper only----. The israelis used the design and came up with their own version---.

Now for the chinese---what other attraction they would have with israeli aviation other than the lavi design and israeli aviation engineers who have worked on it----. China needs a modern single engine aircraft design----israel has just shelved one.

WHAT I DON'T UNDERSTAND IS THAT WHERE DO YOU PEOPLE GET THIS IDEA THAT THERE IS SOMETHING BAD ABOUT THIS EXCHANGE----why does this foolish thinking keep popping up in you r discussions all the time.

Suppose israel didnot have the complete permission of the united states to share this design----wouldn't it be prudent on the part of the chinese and israelis to make some changes---and as it is a 10-15 years newer project---why not enhance the design parameters and merge them with a newer technology.

I mean to say it would be utterly stupid on the part of the chinese not to have used an existing design---whence they are known for that in the past and present---and you pakistanis are coming up with your own convulated and twisted views and perception---.

If it walks like a duck---if it quacks like a duck---it is a duck.

Who teaches you people these things----is there a school that you guys go to or you people just simply have no exposure to the world of technology and technical designs---the effort put into stealing existing designs---the espionage that goes into the effort---the end products that are similiar but are not.

The speed that this project has come into fruitation must leave no doubt in anyone's mind as to what the source of the fountainhead.

just like to add since this plane has input from the west and east this can really change ones perception about the quality of this aircraft

 

[MastanKhan]

just like to add since this plane has input from the west and east this can really change ones perception about the quality of this aircraft

Hi,

Absolutely---you are so correct in your assessment----you look at the design and the known capability of the J10 and it is not your typical chinese aircraft at all. The J10 just takes the chinese millitary aircraft to a different pleateau---the physical appearance is more of a european / american design----.

Now only if the chinese could make a one piece bubble canopy.

Industrial espionage or collaboration has always played an extremely important role in the development of any industry----. In the defence industry---as there is no recourse---basically no patent protection---nations who want to seek bigger and better---are extremely actively searching for other venues.

As a matter of fact---the defence is the only industry where the millitary can say---we stole your design---copied it and now we can compete with you---or we stole your designs and now we made it better and we can take you out.

With the israeli collaboration, the chinse got to the J10A---with the pakistani collaboration they took this aircraft to a different pleateau in the form of J10B.

It ought to be a matter of pride for pakistani posters to say that our millitary industrial base and joint ventures are based upon making better and potent versions of current designs available to us---it saves us a lots of foreign exchange and time.

Where is FC-20 in all this debate of Where did J-10 come from? Guys, please stick to the topic!

Hi,

I think it came about from the title of the thread---if I am not wrong

 

[nitetrogen70]

haha couldn't agree with you more, i mean isn't that what capitalism is all about. On top of that people fail to realize that the j 20 is the end product of having input from all sides and making something brand new i can bet that this plane will be better then what people think it to be

 

[Rank]

Hi,

Pakistani posters are again showing their ignorance and lack of knowledge----just by talking tough, you don't prove nothing---just by circling certain parts of aircraft---does not mean anything----.

Lavi was a 80's design---thousands of man hours put into it---a perfect oppurtunity for the israelis to make some money out of it and the chinese to take on a flying design---bring about some needed changes in the design to make it a 21st century aircraft----.

For you superstar----when the israelis stole the mirage design from switzeland and came up with their own aircraft----those blue prints weighed over two tons of paper only----. The israelis used the design and came up with their own version---they had scientists as well---very capable scientists---but they didnot want to design an aircraft on their own---they made it similiar to mirage 3---they also feared sanctions and then they decided to go for a next generation aircraft---they had the model of the F16 and the mirage 2000 in front of them---they came up with ther lavi.

Now for the chinese---what other attraction they would have with israeli aviation other than the lavi design and israeli aviation engineers who have worked on it----. China needs a modern single engine aircraft design----israel has just shelved one.

WHAT I DON'T UNDERSTAND IS THAT WHERE DO YOU PEOPLE GET THIS IDEA THAT THERE IS SOMETHING BAD ABOUT THIS EXCHANGE----why does this foolish thinking keep popping up in you r discussions all the time.

Suppose israel didnot have the complete permission of the united states to share this design----wouldn't it be prudent on the part of the chinese and israelis to make some changes---and as it is a 10-15 years newer project---why not enhance the design parameters and merge them with a newer technology.

I mean to say it would be utterly stupid on the part of the chinese not to have used an existing design---whence they are known for that in the past and present---and you pakistanis are coming up with your own convulated and twisted views and perception---.

If it walks like a duck---if it quacks like a duck---it is a duck.

Who teaches you people these things----is there a school that you guys go to or you people just simply have no exposure to the world of technology and technical designs---the effort put into stealing existing designs---the espionage that goes into the effort---the end products that are similiar but are not.

The speed that this project has come into fruitation must leave no doubt in anyone's mind as to what the source of the fountainhead.

If you get tech from Russia and paint grey scene called Brahmos thn its "our super duper tuper loper sonic missile" but when chines make something which they cant thn "its copy"

 

[SBD-3]

If you get tech from Russia and paint grey scene called Brahmos thn its "our super duper tuper loper sonic missile" but when chines make something which they cant thn "its copy"

You can't do anything about what the others say. In fact, the way I see it, they tend to find refuge in the argument. Indians were shell shocked more than US, when Chinese allowed to leak J-20 pictures.Chinese themselves, never officially denied the rumors of Israeli help. J-10, nevertheless, became the tipping point of revolution in Chinese Aviation Industry.

 

[Nishan_101]

I hope that Oman will look towards FC-20s instead of EF-2000 and on JF-17 Block-IIs too.

 

[SBD-3]

"if j-10 is a copy of lavi, then lca is a copy of mirage"

that was the point i disproved^^. you cant deny the fact that j-10 could never have been built
to its current capability if the israelis didn't help. whereas lca and mirage use
entirely different means of airframe construction and role they were meant to
perform

Well in real world we breath today, J-10 has not only materialized but gone a distence in its evolution while LCA still awaits it faith (Honestly its surprising how an aircraft would evolve without even operational induction). A counter argument can be that would LCA be possible without help from dassalt and GE?....

the actual chinese plan for a J-7 (MiG-21 copy) replacement was a plane called J-9. but later on
chinese got in touch with israelis for helping them with the tech and design data of the lavi, to come
up with a new plane. based on the lavi, but ofcourse with some changes in design (according to
chinese specifications/requirements), the j-9 was dropped in favor of this new plane, called J-10, which as many
pointed out, had numerous western inputs, thus superior in every way to the j-9 project that it replaced

The only thing we know about J-9 that it was a concept which never materialized with no authentic records available. Again you apparently are running back to Wikipedia for searches.

i dont know what point you guys have made by showing me sketches of j-10
and lavi (which i've shown you already), and told how they differ. sure they differ
somewhat because IDF's and PLAAF's requirements arent the same, but that
doesn't prove in any way how j-10 isn't based on lavi design, which is a well-known
fact throughout the world, the chinese industry itself had never denied
israeli help in j-10, but i dont know why PAKISTANIS are so interested in
tryin' to prove they are whole different aircraft

You have answered yourself here, why would i need a supersonic design e.g. EF when my requirements asked for a trans-sonic design like F-16 or a subsonic design like Mig-17? It is certainly not the case that Chinese invested in a design which remained experimental, never materialized as they could have an operational design e.g. Fulcrum which could come with ToT like previous Chinese designs. There are many things we dont know, so all we do is speculate. Btw neither Israel nor China has officially denied or accepted the fact that there was a collaboration on LAVI. Just because wiki says something, doesn't make it a "well-known fact".

I hope that Oman will look towards FC-20s instead of EF-2000 and on JF-17 Block-IIs too.

They have long been negotiating for EF, I don't know why do we hope for things which have nothing to back them except someone's mere emotions.