Chengdu J-10 Multirole Fighter Air Craft News & Discussions

[SBD-3]

some more interesting news

Russia Signed AL-31 Engine Deal with China
According to the report of Russia media Kommersant, the Russian state-owned arms trading company Rosoboroneksport has concluded a US$300 million deal for the export of 100 modified AL-31FN turbofan engines from the Salyut Moscow Machine Building Production Enterprise to China. These engine will be fitted on the PLA Air Force’s latest indigenous J-10 fighter aircraft.

The report confirmed the earlier speculation that China had received 54 Salyut-made AL-31FP turbofan engines for a test fleet of J-10s between 2002 and 2004. Later Salyut, through Rosoboroneksport, successfully negotiated the sale of the engine for mass production of the fighter aircraft.

An official of Salyut stated that the deal, which is the latest of their deals with China, is for 100 modified AL-31FN engines worth more than US$300 million. He clearly confirmed that these engines will not be installed Russian-made fighters, but Chinese. “The contract allows us to enlarge the spectrum of our collaboration with China while avoiding ties to production only of engines of the Sukhoi family,” he said.

Salyut services and renovates engines for Su-27SK and Su-30MK2 fighters delivered to Beijing previously. A US$100 million contract was recently concluded for the delivery of parts for those engines over the next three years. It is understood that Salyut signed that contract directly, since it has a five-year license for the independent delivery of spare parts and technical servicing. It received that license in September 2002.

Experts say that the total demand of China for AL-31FN engines is 250, which could earn Russia about $900 million. Obviously, after receipt of the first lot of engines, China will sign a new contract with Salyut.

The contract with Salyut is the second within three months for the delivery of Russian engines for Chinese fighter planes. At the beginning of April, Rosoboroneksport signed a contract with Beijing for the sale of 100 RD-93 engines for the new Chinese FC-1 for $267 million. The engine was developed by the Klimov plant based on the RD-33 used in the improved MiG-29. Mass production of the RD-93 for China will be carried out at the Chernyshev plant in Moscow. Beijing's total demand for RD-93 will be about 500 pieces.

 

[Donatello]

Rumored Display Unit for J-10B

The plane that the display is showing, is definitely J-20.

 

[SBD-3]

The plane that the display is showing, is definitely J-20.

There may be an adaptation to J-10B....this was also rumored that many of the systems developed for J-20 were tested on J-10B

 

[PWFI]

The plane that the display is showing, is definitely J-20.

It's not J-20---because it's single engine while J-20 is double engines

 

[krash]

The plane that the display is showing, is definitely J-20.

Well not J-20........you can see the horizontal tail-planes in the display, The J-20 has none.

 

[razgriz19]

Rumored Display Unit for J-10B

looks like a copy of F-35 display...

 

[SBD-3]

looks like a copy of F-35 display...

Yeah, I was also thinking about it, makes sense as well. While Shape may have been benchmarked against F-22, the Avionics would have been benchmarked against F-35. Best of both worlds.....

 

[rcrmj]

looks like a copy of F-35 display...

maybe the SAC's J-xx?

 

[razgriz19]

maybe the SAC's J-xx?

true could be for another fifth G fighter, probably same class as f-35...

 

[DANGER-ZONE]

looks like a copy of F-35 display...

maybe the SAC's J-xx?

true could be for another fifth G fighter, probably same class as f-35...

yes that what it is.

The latest rumor (March 2011) suggested that 611 is working on a downgraded single-engine stealth fighter design (J-2X) which will be export-ready similar to American F-35.
- Last Updated 5/10/11
Chinese Military Aviation | China Air Force

FC-20/J-10b simulator cockpit was revealed long ago in late 2009 or early 2010, it was also posted on DPK forum but later all images were removed.

 

[houshanghai]

huzigeng said that j10b's cockpit is only next to f35. there is a bit of an exaggeration about what huzigeng means, perhaps。

Also,pupu said that PAF standards is very hign in j10B/FC20.There have some minor things that must be upto PAF requirements in j10B/FC20.

 

[Xracer]

Thanks Bro

huzigeng said that j10b's cockpit is only next to f35. there is a bit of an exaggeration about what huzigeng means, perhaps。

Also,pupu said that PAF standards is very hign in FC20.There have some minor things that must be upto PAF requirements in FC20.

 

[SBD-3]

huzigeng said that j10b's cockpit is only next to f35. there is a bit of an exaggeration about what huzigeng means, perhaps。

Also,pupu said that PAF standards is very hign in j10B/FC20.There have some minor things that must be upto PAF requirements in j10B/FC20.

AFAIK,

PAF exercised their judgment back in 2007, PAF could either choose to go with large number of F-16s or bring in J-10B. My info on this is, Chinese clearly denied to do anything with J-10 unless the orders of F-16s are cut down

and

PAF brought in their info on an F-16 version avionics that was to be unveiled in Middle East. In fact the RFP sent to LM was forwarded to Chinese with minor changes (That’s not my assumption or speculation).

PAF came up with block 60 specs and J-10B is benchmarked against it

 

[Manticore]

old post by EagleHannan

''
A few weeks ago, I showed the leaked pics to some PAF personal and they agreed that top brass of PAF has always known of this project and the pictures are indeed the J-20. However, like all Pakistani acquisations, we are NOT interested in J-20 as it is. China is where the Stealth 5th generation MRCA will be bought from but that wont exactly be J-20.
The way PAF deals with and has always delath with Chinese manufacturers (JF-17s are exception) is that we let them present what they have. Then analyse and give them our own requirements and integrate our man power and share information we get from our own sources into the project.

Eaxmples: F-7MG --> F-7PG (Chinese couldnt come up with avionics so we bought it from theird party back when sun used to shine well in west for PAF)
J-10 --> J-10B

LIke I said before, we have no input so far in this J-20. A few have laid eyes on it. My source told me, it will be another J-20 --> J-20-B story when Chinese will put it on Table. Chances are the thing will NOT be on table anytime before 2015. For many reasons, including sales of J-10. Any plane operating with PAF is a free marketing for Chinese companies (I was so proud of it when an AVIC personal said it to me in the presence of PAF personal that the world trusts PAFs standards).
Chinese want to see J-10B in considerable number before even offering J-20. The money + interest of Chinese companies is in NOT offering Pakistan J-20 unless J-10B is flying with PAF in number.
PAF exercised their judgment back in 2007, PAF could either choose to go with large number of F-16s or bring in J-10B. My info on this is, Chinese clearly denied to do anything with J-10 unless the orders of F-16s are cut down. PAF did burn their boats after agreeing to it (I am glad they did. Thanks Allah for that) and sent thier team for a long tern partnership with China (Currently located in Chingdu). It was only after then that the Chinese let in PAF/PAC engineers tweak with J-10s and we saw the J-10B.
Time line for J-20 in small batch can easily be after 2016 and only then PAF might be invited to jump in.



"It more like you show confidence and commit to the cause." All companies work like it. Chinese business mentality is as such, they want to know before selling if they'll get money or not. It simple plain business. They knew once the funds are allocated to F-16s there is a little chance Pakistan will jump in on J-10B. PAF at that time was not confident on J-10 as a top tier AC. But once Chinese allowed us in on design and avionics, PAF did cut orders for F-16s. I remember when early J-10 cockpit pictures were released, we all concluded that it’s no better than JF-17 and then near exact layout was brought in on J-10s later since Pakistan committed to J-10B.
Sir, for J-10s Pakistan is given very generous deal, inshallah I'll write about it when I am permitted to. I must commend Chinese for their business ideas. They knew Pakistan back in 2005/6 is not interested in J-10s and that simply means no market for J-10 outside China as the world sees Pakistan as the launch customer of anything good coming from China. Examples are J6/F-6, J7/F-7, J7MGs/F-7PG and inshallah FC-1/JF-17s. There was no sales of JH-7 and J-8MII, even when they were offered to many and are serving PLAAF in numbers.
I think, it was PakDef where back in 2006, I wrote that there is serious evaluation of J-10 going on. PAF saw the potential and wanted R&D with Chinese on another version of partially same air frame but improved avionics. PAF brought in their info on an F-16 version avionics that was to be unveiled in Middle East. In fact the RFP sent to LM was forwarded to Chinese with minor changes (That’s not my assumption or speculation).
As per Allah's will and thankfully it was in a good way that we finally decided to peal away from US dependence. I can imagine if we would have put our eggs in US basket, what would have been the situation today. "Never again" was rightly exercised.
Right now, the planned acquisition of J-10B's first batch is in mid of 2013 Inshallah. Engine is a hurdle (this is my speculation). We might not want to go for AL31FN and as per my info WS-10 is not failed but having teething problems, bad ones. Other than that, I confirm the engine is built with high grade materials and new labs are being built to check the manufacturing process for it. This shows commitment and promise. Some PAF personal visiting these labs told me, they are impressed. Nanjing institute is prime contractor for Radar (both Air born and AD. AD team is here already and inshallah we'll see some joint project in AD as well)for PAF.

 

[houshanghai]

old post by EagleHannan

infs about j10b engine in the futue

time have proved pupu said again

Russian 99M2 turbofan engine(thrust: 150kn)of double secure affirmance for CAC fighter in the future that were in the open.china had been pouring a lot of money into the development of 99m2.
actually,it is a good news to j10x in the future .bcz there are another choice but to chinese ws10x and ws15.
So, see not hard。china was cautious about turbofan in the future. double secure affirmance is good decision。

Courtesy Pinko in the other forum


Salut reports its AL31F-M2 turbofan is ready, thrust up from 12.5 tons for the basic version to 14.5 tons for the M2 version.

Новости Aviation EXplorer: НПЦ "Салют" представил новые двигатели для истребителей Су-27

Just a while ago. There is the order from CAC for 123 units of AL31FN made by Salut.

Several years ago, reported in its " Super-10 " article that Salut developed AL31-M series for future J10.

It highlights close relation between CAC & Salut & CAC does value its long term partner.