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Chengdu J-10 Multirole Fighter Air Craft News & Discussions

I have been contributing to this forum for almost two months now. During this i time i have fought with the sheer arrogance of the moderators and admins of this forum.

The final straw was when they closed my welcome thread, as some of my friends were posting there.

I asked them for a reason and the reply was and i quote " i shall consider myself lucky that it was allowed for that long..."

No I don't consider myself lucky at all, they shall consider themselves lucky that people, like myself, waste their time by posting on this web page.

As far as i am concern if my welcome thread is not good enough to be here then they don't deserve to have my other contributions to this forum either.

Hence i am withdrawing all my posts from this forum.
 
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Bravo a very good answer. thank you very much.

but one final thing .... i asked about aligning ourselves completely with China thus having complete vision of future plans etc. is it possible ?

again thanks for comprehensive answer.

Well i believe you got enough answers for your query :), anyway i believe PAF should take up this path as that is the best solution for it. PAF should send more aeronautical engineering students each year for studies and training to China & elsewhere if possible and develop countr's own aerospace infrastructure as it will help in future.

China has a future potential, they are gonna make heavy airlift transporters, they are aiming for civilian aircrafts, so if we make our own infrastructure we can become self reliant to a great extent.

Plus i believe PAF might try to keep and acquire a western 4+ gen fighter to compare its performance with its Chinese counterparts & keep itself updated to the latest gen of avionics in market.

And this western platform is gonna be the one which mostly would be used in the arab world, i believe that you know why :)

:pakistan:
 
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Well i believe you got enough answers for your query :), anyway i believe PAF should take up this path as that is the best solution for it. PAF should send more aeronautical engineering students each year for studies and training to China & elsewhere if possible and develop countr's own aerospace infrastructure as it will help in future.

China has a future potential, they are gonna make heavy airlift transporters, they are aiming for civilian aircrafts, so if we make our own infrastructure we can become self reliant to a great extent.

Plus i believe PAF might try to keep and acquire a western 4+ gen fighter to compare its performance with its Chinese counterparts & keep itself updated to the latest gen of avionics in market.

And this western platform is gonna be the one which mostly would be used in the arab world, i believe that you know why :)

:pakistan:


sir i just need to know that , what skill is most needed for PAF ? is it Engineering or Avionics ?
 
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sir i just need to know that , what skill is most needed for PAF ? is it Engineering or Avionics ?

Aeronautical engineering will nearly cover all the things.

Engines are the hardest of all, but atleast we should be able to make max spare parts needed and overhaul them locally and making them would required decades and decades. We can buy engines and fit them in Pakistan.

Read the below to get a good idea how what i mean.

Aerospace engineering - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
 
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Well the J-10B may be the platform where the WS-10A is being fine-tuned before it is introduced into service and production. Since the J-10B is not slated for entry until 2014-2015, the WS-10A by then shouldn't be an issue. The other likely option would be Russian engines, the PAF is already considering the Russian RD-93M for future JF-17s.

Mark,

Its pretty unlikely that a new engine is tried and 'fine-tuned' in a single engine aircraft. So I do not believe that the J10B will be trying it out (unless it is already a proven engine).

The best chance we have is that those J-11B pics actually do have the WS-10A on it and that tests are (and have been for a while) going on for the engine to be thoroughly tested before being installed on the FC-20/J-10B.

It remains to be seen if Russia will have a similar agreement with China as it did for the RD-93. It might be more politically sensitive than the RD-93 issue but nothing can be ruled out.
 
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Mark,

Its pretty unlikely that a new engine is tried and 'fine-tuned' in a single engine aircraft. So I do not believe that the J10B will be trying it out (unless it is already a proven engine).

The best chance we have is that those J-11B pics actually do have the WS-10A on it and that tests are (and have been for a while) going on for the engine to be thoroughly tested before being installed on the FC-20/J-10B.

It remains to be seen if Russia will have a similar agreement with China as it did for the RD-93. It might be more politically sensitive than the RD-93 issue but nothing can be ruled out.

As per Chinese defense forums there seems to be 2 variants of WS-10 engine series, one is the basic WS-10 variant at about 125Kn thrust and the WS-10A at 132Kn and most probably having TVC, as per picture reviews by some Chinese members.

A recent picture of the designer of WS-10 series seen in a video shows WS-10 engine being manufactured in the background, and it seemed to be a mass production kind of facility as multiple WS-10s were being seen, and as per some other reports the production rate of components being used in WS-10 engines from plants have increased too. Suggesting that WS-10 is ready for service, while WS-10A is still in the trial and evaluation version.

But again as per Chinese traditions, their defence products are kept secret till the last end and only rumors and some confirmed specifications are known, so we all can guess about the WS-10 and WS-10A engines and their status, but their real official status will be only known when they get started to be used or we see multiple aircrafts with WS-10 series engines like the above picture of J-11 with both engines as WS-10 or the A variant.

But the emergence of the above picture if real may suggest that it has been started to be incorporated in the J-11s and that one of the variants has become operational.
 
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Sometimes, you work with a technology and get stuck with it. You keep trying to work harder and harder but the improvements are marginal. It turns out, you need to try a different technology and that may work out faster, better and easier than spending time on what you got stuck with.

From the tidbits I have been reading on Chinese forums, it seems the same is happening with the Chinese engines. WS-10, WS-10A and WS-15. It appears the WS-15 is just not an enhanced version but technologically different. It may turn out that this is the breakthrough technology they have been waiting for, or atleast let's hope it is.

We should not overlook this factor that it might as well be the WS-15. On the other hand, one nice sunny day you get the breakthrough you have been waiting for years in a manner you were least expecting. Anyone of these will be good news for the FC-20 though the more powerful engine the better.

We know from former PAF chief's interview that 'technical negotiations' are almost over but the FC-20 timeline is quite a bit in the future. Engine could be just one of the many requirements. Systems mentioned in the technical requirement include a better radar, better avionics, and better weapons. To me this is a clear sign that the technical requirement is quite significant and the FC-20 will be 'one hell of a plane'
 
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J-10 model with CFT wind tunnel testing

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Yes but so far none has entered service or been long enough to prove its reliability. The only thing we have to go by is some J-11B pics "apparently" with chinese engines. WS-15 is even longer.

So what are the chances they will be functional by the FC-20 timeline (and they have to be at least a year or two before for them to be fitted) and how reliable would they be for PAF to opt for them?
These are serious questions that would need to be answered though we all hope for the best.

Here is what you want


And see my thread bellow:
http://www.defence.pk/forums/military-aviation/42978-ws-10-taihang-ready.html
 
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it has been discussed, plz go through all the posts
 
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Chinese Chengdu J-10 Emerges


Jan 14, 2010

By Richard D. Fisher, Jr.
Washington



Wrapped in secrecy for most of the decade following its 1998 test flight, Chengdu Aircraft Corp.’s J-10 multirole fighter is set to enter the global market. Following a development history that extends to the 1960s, and five years in the People’s Liberation Army Air Force (PLAAF), the J-10 may emerge in the market soon after 2010, offering capabilities approaching Lockheed Martin’s F-16C Block 60, at half the price.

About 150 J-10s may be in PLAAF units. This could exceed 300 based on Russian disclosures that China purchased 300-400 12.7-ton-thrust Salyut AL-31FN engines for the fighter. Pakistan, which received Chinese nuclear weapons technology and generations of conventional weapons, will be the debut J-10 customer.

Reports from Pakistan say a deal has been reached to sell 36 J-10s to Islamabad for $1.4 billion, about $40 million per unit. F-16C Block 60 fighters with AN/APG-80 active phased array radar were sold to the United Arab Emirates for about $80 million each. It is not known whether the price of Pakistan’s J-10 includes spares, support and training.

Pakistan could buy 70-150 J-10s. The country has been an F-16 operator since 1982, and is taking delivery of 18 F-16C/D Block 52 fighters, half of an expected sale of 36. Pakistani sources tell DTI that the J-10 is not expected to become a coproduction project with Pakistan. There have also been reports of interest in the J-10 by Iran, Myanmar and the Philippines.

China has not released data about the J-10. Recent Chinese media reports, however, offer the following: length, 16.43 meters (53.9 ft.); wingspan, 8.78 or 9.75 meters; maximum takeoff weight, 19,227 kg. (42,300 lb.); maximum weapons load, 7,000 kg.; combat radius, 1,100 km. (683 mi.); maximum speed, Mach 2; maneuverability, 9g.

Despite a history of Israeli and Russian design assistance, and its dependence on the Salyut engine, China touts the J-10 as a domestic product. November festivities marking the PLAAF’s 60th anniversary featured a J-10 aerobatic display and the showing of a prototype and full-scale, twin-seat mockup at the national aviation museum.

Besides price, what makes the J-10 attractive is competitive electronic and weapon systems. The latest version, sometimes called the J-10B (or FC-20 when slated for Pakistan) emerged in Internet photos in January 2009. It features a diverterless supersonic inlet similar in principle to that of the Joint Strike *Fighter. The nose is redesigned, with an infrared search-and-track system in front of the windscreen and what appears to be a canted radar bulkhead consistent with a fixed electronically scanned array radar. If true, this would be a major advance for China’s radar technology, and may make the J-10 competitive with upgraded Western and Russian fourth-generation-plus fighters. The cockpit is dominated by three multifunction displays and a head-up display.

The J-10 has 11 hardpoints, including five on the fuselage. Its principal counter-air weapon is the Luoyang PL‑12 active radar-guided air-to-air missile (AAM) with 70-km. range. With a twin-AAM pylon on the inner wing mount, plus two on forward fuselage mounts, the J-10 could carry eight PL-12s. Short-range AAMs include the PL-8, a copy of the Israeli Python-3, and an improved version of this missile, the PL-9, both helmet-sighted. The J-10 may soon feature a more capable helmet-mounted display and a new fifth-generation AAM from Luoyang.

The fighter’s market success will depend on China’s ability to produce reliable advanced turbofan engines. Rival fighter maker Shenyang has been developing its WS-10A Taihang turbofan since the mid-1980s, which could offer 13.2 tons of thrust. Russian sources believe it is beset by developmental difficulties.

Chengdu may have a competing Huashan advanced turbofan engine program, which some Chinese sources note is based on its late-1990s acquisition of the engineering data and sales rights to the Tumansky R-79 turbofan developed for the defunct Yakovlev Yak-141 supersonic vertical/short-takeoff-and-landing fighter. Nevertheless, Russian sources say China remains interested in more powerful versions of the Salyut AL-31FN, which could come in 13.5- and, eventually, 15-ton-thrust versions.

Chengdu remains ready to develop a carrier-based version of the J-10. During the PLAAF anniversary, a test pilot was reported noting that ground-test simulations prove the J-10 can operate from a carrier.


Chinese Chengdu J-10 Emerges
 
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