Chanoykkyo war tacts in Bangladesh: Bluff, damage & dominate.

[idune]

Does not matter how many times we provide information. New and more indians would come back with same quentions and same set of twisted decptive line.

There is no point feeding millions of these twisted indian souls.

 

[BanglaBhoot]

India is a federal republic. States frame laws that are not under the purview of the centre. Cow slaughter is only banned in Gujarat and Rajasthan i believe, i may be mistaken. Why is this? Because the state government in power has framed laws banning the slaughter of animals. I believe Muslims in India slaughter goats during Eid. Banning cow slaughter in a few states does not make India a fascist state.

You are right of course but what does make India a fascist state is allowing murderers of minorities to stand for elections. Also permitting candidates who make hate speeches and incite people to kill and to stand for elections is fascist. India is merely a fascist state in the guise of a democracy. India may be the largest democracy but it is a very shallow one indeed.

India has far more minority rights than any other country in South Asia. Have you ever read the Indian constitution? The proof of my assertion is in the constitution. We in India, bend backwards to allow religious freedom. There is a muslim personal law board in India that decides issues relating to divorce, property rights, etc. No one in India likes this law, neither educated Hindus or Muslims, yet we continue to have it, to appease our minority religious leaders. If India was a fascist state, would we allow such measures? I see no reason to even continue this discussion, we don't need to prove to you whether we are a fascist state or not.

Fine words in a constitution does not make a great country unless those words are applied to the letter and the spirit of the document. The constitution of India is applied more in the breach than in its application. The US constitution said quite specifically that all men are created equally but nevertheless allowed slavery for 200 years. There are many great and wonderful things in your constitution but the vast majority of Indians do not have access to justice or clean water or shelter or any basic amenities. What the constitution says is irrelevant to these people.

As far as Bangladeshis allowing durga puja, thats great. But you still haven't answered my question, is your national identity based on religion? Or is it based on cultural connotations? If it is based on religion, what happens to the 6% of Bangladeshis? They are Bangladeshis, right?

Our national identity is based on religion but also includes all persons living within the definable territory of Bangladesh who are accorded the same protection and rights as everyone else in the country without discrimination or hindrance. Islam is a very tolerant religion but unfortunately some fanatics have lost the true meaning of its teachings. The Bangladesh constitution however includes a specific provision concerning toleration and these are not merely words but are applied on a daily basis in Bangladesh.

 

[Khajur]

Yeh Chanoykkyo ya chunkiya kaun hey bhai??

His name is Cha-na-kya,Chanakya of Arthaśāstra fame.

Chanakya - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

 

[Nemesis]

You are right of course but what does make India a fascist state is allowing murderers of minorities to stand for elections. Also permitting candidates who make hate speeches and incite people to kill and to stand for elections is fascist. India is merely a fascist state in the guise of a democracy. India may be the largest democracy but it is a very shallow one indeed.

The law states in India states that only a person convicted of a crime, and not accused of a crime, cannot stand for elections. So India does not allow "murderers of minorities" to stand for election.

I know you mean Modi, however despite all accusations there is no evidence as such to suggest that he is responsible for the riots in Gujarat. Your accusations are essentially hyper-bole. I have no doubt he is guilty of negligence, and perhaps even of mass murder. But my opinions mean nothing. Unless evidence is provided, the law can do little. By the way, today the supreme court ordered that cases against the accused (including members of the Gujarat government) be held in fast track court. Also, the Gujarat riots despite all the failings of the law, has resulted in convictions. This would not happened in a fascist state. Please look up the word fascism by the way, people are using it way to loosely here.

As far as hate speeches, i presume you mean Varun Gandhi. Varun Gandhi spent three weeks in jail because of his speech, he is also charged under the NSA law, if convicted he'll have to vacate his post as MP (that is if he wins). Considering that Mayawati rules in UP, you can be sure, she won't let him off that easily.

Fine words in a constitution does not make a great country unless those words are applied to the letter and the spirit of the document.

The spirit is by in large enforced. There are cases of course where they are not but this has to do with corruption.

India is not perfect, no one knows that better than it's citizens. There are incidences of bigotry, sexism, corruption, in Indian society, however they have to do with illiteracy, poverty and superstition which creates a value system of hate in some people. This does not make Indian society at large fascist. By the way, similar things happen in Bangladesh, Pakistan, Sri Lanka, in fact, every country that faces the issues highlighted above.

The constitution of India is applied more in the breach than in its application. The US constitution said quite specifically that all men are created equally but nevertheless allowed slavery for 200 years. There are many great and wonderful things in your constitution but the vast majority of Indians do not have access to justice or clean water or shelter or any basic amenities. What the constitution says is irrelevant to these people.

You're saying that a country that doesnt provide basic civic amenities is fascist? So every developing country is fascist? Bangladesh is fascist? By the way, even in the US, 10% of the population is not covered by any sort of health care.

Our national identity is based on religion but also includes all persons living within the definable territory of Bangladesh who are accorded the same protection and rights as everyone else in the country without discrimination or hindrance. Islam is a very tolerant religion but unfortunately some fanatics have lost the true meaning of its teachings. The Bangladesh constitution however includes a specific provision concerning toleration and these are not merely words but are applied on a daily basis in Bangladesh.

So there are two types of identities for Bangladeshis? One for the minorities who follow Islam and another for the minorities? Is that advisable?

As far as applying it on a daily basis, i have read Shame by Taslima Nasreen, so i know similar incidences happen in Bangladesh. But let me guess, She's an Indian stooge right?

 

[BanglaBhoot]

The law states in India states that only a person convicted of a crime, and not accused of a crime, cannot stand for elections. So India does not allow "murderers of minorities" to stand for election.

I know you mean Modi, however despite all accusations there is no evidence as such to suggest that he is responsible for the riots in Gujarat. Your accusations are essentially hyper-bole. I have no doubt he is guilty of negligence, and perhaps even of mass murder. But my opinions mean nothing. Unless evidence is provided, the law can do little. By the way, today the supreme court ordered that cases against the accused (including members of the Gujarat government) be held in fast track court. Also, the Gujarat riots despite all the failings of the law, has resulted in convictions. This would not happened in a fascist state. Please look up the word fascism by the way, people are using it way to loosely here.

As far as hate speeches, i presume you mean Varun Gandhi. Varun Gandhi spent three weeks in jail because of his speech, he is also charged under the NSA law, if convicted he'll have to vacate his post as MP (that is if he wins). Considering that Mayawati rules in UP, you can be sure, she won't let him off that easily.




The spirit is by in large enforced. There are cases of course where they are not but this has to do with corruption.

India is not perfect, no one knows that better than it's citizens. There are incidences of bigotry, sexism, corruption, in Indian society, however they have to do with illiteracy, poverty and superstition which creates a value system of hate in some people. This does not make Indian society at large fascist. By the way, similar things happen in Bangladesh, Pakistan, Sri Lanka, in fact, every country that faces the issues highlighted above.



You're saying that a country that doesnt provide basic civic amenities is fascist? So every developing country is fascist? Bangladesh is fascist? By the way, even in the US, 10% of the population is not covered by any sort of health care.



So there are two types of identities for Bangladeshis? One for the minorities who follow Islam and another for the minorities? Is that advisable?

As far as applying it on a daily basis, i have read Shame by Taslima Nasreen, so i know similar incidences happen in Bangladesh. But let me guess, She's an Indian stooge right?

The obvious question is why Modi and others do not stand trial. The entire political and legal system of India is based on intimidation, violence and exercise of brute power which are all fascist attributes. India's fascist face is more obvious to its neighbour than from what happens internally within the country.

If your understanding about Banglashe if based on the book Shame then your credibility has taken a nose dive here. Shame is a worthless piece of literature and cannot be compared to Midnights Children or more recently The White Tiger. Shame is inferior in every respect.

 

[toxic_pus]

Shame is a worthless piece of literature and cannot be compared to Midnights Children or more recently The White Tiger. Shame is inferior in every respect.

True. But guess what, neither Mr Rushdie nor Mr Adiga has a price on his head, set by an Indian, because of those two books. Neither do they have to live in hiding or country hopping.

What was it that Ms Taslima Nasreen has to do, that too for her "worthless piece of literature" ?

 

[Nemesis]

In terms of literature as an art, Shame does not match up to Midnight's children, true. However, she needs to be given credit when it is due, her book writes down almost all the instances of violence against minorities in Bangladesh. That is an impressive feat.

The White Tiger is absolute ****. Stereotypical, fake, full of bad prose. The only thing that can be termed as interesting in the book is the larger story. It is irrelevant that it won the Man Booker Prize. Do you even know the politics that goes on in selecting the winner?

Your opinions on India is based on "The White Tiger"? And you're talking to me about credibility? For your sake, let's not turn this into a "which is a better book" debate, as you're sure to lose.

The obvious question is why Modi and others do not stand trial. The entire political and legal system of India is based on intimidation, violence and exercise of brute power which are all fascist attributes. India's fascist face is more obvious to its neighbour than from what happens internally within the country.

The reason he didnt stand trial is because there is no evidence against him.

So what you're saying is that the workings of the Indian legal system, is more apparent to someone outside India than a citizen of the country? Do you know how absurd that sounds? Can your rationale be extended to Bangladesh as well? Can i claim to know more about the workings of the Bangladeshi state as i live outside it's borders?

 

[BanglaBhoot]

In terms of literature as an art, Shame does not match up to Midnight's children, true. However, she needs to be given credit when it is due, her book writes down almost all the instances of violence against minorities in Bangladesh. That is an impressive feat.

Even though it is worthless literature you find veracity and truthfulness in what she writes. She is a publicity seeking low life who has made money and fame from disclosing all her affairs and sexual exploits and you expect her to be taken seriously. She is a fourth rate writer who sells lies to make money.

The White Tiger is a far superior work because it conveys nuggets of truth about present day India but does not spoil the effect by distorting the story or making it into a lecture or tirade. The story always wins out but the same cannot be said for Shame which forces a viewpoint down ones through and spoils the whole effect and purpose of writing stories.

 

[toxic_pus]

Even though it is worthless literature you find veracity and truthfulness in what she writes. She is a publicity seeking low life who has made money and fame from disclosing all her affairs and sexual exploits and you expect her to be taken seriously. She is a fourth rate writer who sells lies to make money.

OK. But why does she have to run like hell ? If writing about one's "affairs and sexual exploits" make her low life, then close to half the world's writers are low life.

Besides, you are not praising White Tiger for the quality of prose, but for the content (for some unknown reason, you think that it is a research paper and not a work of fiction)

The White Tiger is a far superior work because it conveys nuggets of truth about present day India but does not spoil the effect by distorting the story or making it into a lecture or tirade. The story always wins out but the same cannot be said for Shame which forces a viewpoint down ones through and spoils the whole effect and purpose of writing stories.

I do not know how superior The White Tiger is. I have read it and I have liked it.

The entire novel is actually an autobiography of the Balaram Halwai, the protagonist, written as a letter to the Chinese premier. It is actually a "lecture and a tirade" of that protagonist against anything and everything Indian. Even Gandhi gets a mouthful.

The novel is about "Haves" and "Have nots" and how the vicious cycle goes round and round, but never stops.

Going by your logic, I won't be surprised, if someday you start citing "A Christmas Carol" by Charles Dickens, as some research paper on the decadence of western society.

But since your intellectual constipation puts you in "rooster coop", you are not aware of other novels by Indians, like Kiran Desai, which tell similar stories. We are saved, in that sense.

Btw, whats your opinion about "The Satanic Verses" ?

 

[Nemesis]

Even though it is worthless literature you find veracity and truthfulness in what she writes. She is a publicity seeking low life who has made money and fame from disclosing all her affairs and sexual exploits and you expect her to be taken seriously. She is a fourth rate writer who sells lies to make money.

I said that Nasreen's book is not that great as an art form. However, it does not take away from the authenticity of the book.

The White Tiger is a far superior work because it conveys nuggets of truth about present day India but does not spoil the effect by distorting the story or making it into a lecture or tirade. The story always wins out but the same cannot be said for Shame which forces a viewpoint down ones through and spoils the whole effect and purpose of writing stories.

The White Tiger is useless. The opening lines of the book tells a great deal about the authors opinions. The book starts with a letter by the protagonist to the Chinese Premier, it goes something like this - "Mr President, I don't know English, You don't know English, But there are certain things that can be said only in English" - I'm paraphrasing.

Is that really true? Are there certain things that can be said only in English? Does that tell you something of the politics that goes on in selecting the winner of the booker prize? Are we supposed to believe the tripe that rest of the novel is, after these lines? But lets carry on - the depiction of Indian villages in the novel is plain wrong. Not a half truth, but completely totally incorrect. But is this really surprising? Adiga has lived all his life in Australia, on what basis can he comment on Indian village life? By the tour he took of the country while being a journalist?

As i told you earlier, don't make this a "Which is a better book debate", My specialization is Literature. This is a debate you won't win.

 

[toxic_pus]

The White Tiger is useless. The opening lines of the book tells a great deal about the authors opinions. The book starts with a letter by the protagonist to the Chinese Premier, it goes something like this - "Mr President, I don't know English, You don't know English, But there are certain things that can be said only in English" - I'm paraphrasing.

Is that really true? Are there certain things that can be said only in English? Does that tell you something of the politics that goes on in selecting the winner of the booker prize? Are we supposed to believe the tripe that rest of the novel is, after these lines? But lets carry on - the depiction of Indian villages in the novel is plain wrong. Not a half truth, but completely totally incorrect. But is this really surprising? Adiga has lived all his life in Australia, on what basis can he comment on Indian village life? By the tour he took of the country while being a journalist?

Come on nemesis. That line was a sarcastic way of representing cultural invasion. Recall what that line was...

"What a fukcing joke."

 

[Nemesis]

No, it was an attempt by an Indian writer who claims to depict Indian reality, defending himself from the obvious criticism that any reality depicted in a colonial language, can only be false.

I have a huge problem with Indian writers in English who claim to represent "Real India". Writers like Amitav Ghosh, live in the West, write primarily for a Western audience and decorate their novel with a few Hindi or colloquial words - which is their attempt at authenticity. Any reality they represent can only be a half truth. Naipaul and Rushdie being the obvious exceptions as one uses magic realism to represent truth while the other is a Trinidadian who only depicts Indians in the West Indies - (I'm talking about Naipaul's novels not his non fiction work which includes drivel like Area of Darkness)

Anyway, i'm taking the example of Amitabh Ghosh, who is a million times a better author than Adiga. Whose book Shadow Lines, is far superior to The White Tiger.

 

[BanglaBhoot]

It seems that Adiga presented a realistic portrait of modern India so that has caused offense. Nevertheless he deals with universal themes in an interesting and unique way. The same cannot be said about Taslima Nasreen's work which is drivel from start to finish and is just meant to insult. I found The Satanic Verses very much overrated. Rushdie's book Midnight's Children will remain an all time classic though. The only book that I have read that matches it for quality and style is One Hundred Years of Solitude. V.S. Naipaul has depth but little style and can often be dry to read. Other ethnic writers I have enjoyed are Ben Okri (The Famished Road), Zadie Smith (White Teeth), Micheal Ondaatje (The English Patient) and Kazou Ishiguro (The Remains of the Day). Muslims can appreciate true literature but not crap like Shame.

 

[Nemesis]

I've already explained why Adiga's book is drivel. It's a pity you can't do the same about Nasreen instead of insulting her character.

Agreed about 100 years of Solitude, but i'm surprised you like him. Gabriel Garcia Marquez is completely anti-thetical to the opinions that you have espoused. Naipaul's fiction work is crap. However, his non-fiction work including House for Mr Biswas is an all time classic. Hilarious read.

Muslims can appreciate true literature but not crap like Shame.

You represent Muslims?

 

[BanglaBhoot]

I've already explained why Adiga's book is drivel. It's a pity you can't do the same about Nasreen instead of insulting her character.

Agreed about 100 years of Solitude, but i'm surprised you like him. Gabriel Garcia Marquez is completely anti-thetical to the opinions that you have espoused. Naipaul's fiction work is crap. However, his non-fiction work including House for Mr Biswas is an all time classic. Hilarious read.

You represent Muslims?

Adiga's book is not drivel since he presents a realistic and stylistic portrayal of modern day India. Nasreen on the other hand is sensationalist, lacks style and presents an overwrought and exaggerated view of Bangladesh. It has nothing to commend it.

I can appreciate books or writers even if I disagree with them. I didn't find anything that would offend me in 100 years of solitude. A House for Mr Biswas is non-fiction?

I am a Muslim who appreciates good literature. Take it how you want. It just shows all Muslims are not ignorant.