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Changing Colonial era Names (Philippines, Indonesia)

Should the Philippines and Indonesia be renamed?


  • Total voters
    30
I am just trying to understand your argument. If you believe that those countries dumped their old colonial names because they don't want to indentify with their colonial past, then there should be no mitigating reason why they should retain their use of the Spanish language, even if their creole or Hispanic population outnumber the native population of their respective countries.

How the Philippines did to address poverty should be a topic of separate discussion. I mentioned it because I believe it is the more pressing concern of the country than unnecessary changing the country's name. Changing the name will not bring food to the Filipino table.

Filipinos started to settle in Mindanao long before we had problems with population, so please don't relate non-implementation of the family planning program to Filipino migration to other parts of the country.

The difference is that the Americas are the New World and the Philippines is part of the Old World. The Spanish introduced many new technologies and institutions to the Americas which didn't exist before, while the Philippines already had them.

The Philippines already had political organization and states (Kingdom of Maynila, Kingdom of Tondo, and the Moro Sultanates). These states had gunpowder technology. The Spanish under Legazpi found a culverin (a type of cannon) when they entered the Philippines and the Moros had guns and cannon. The Philippines already had metalworking, and writing systems like Baybayin script and Jawi (Arabic script). The Philippines already had a world religion (Islam) and an education system (the Moro Panditas taught children how to read and write and educated them). The Malay language was the lingua franca among the different ethnic groupts in the Philippines, like it s over all of maritime southeast asia.

In the New World, only the Mayans had a fully developed writing system and it was cumbersone. The only metals worked were gold and silver, for ornamental purposes in the Aztec and Incan empires. In much of the Americans the technology was stone age, there was no writing and the political systems were primitive. There was no lingua franca. The Spanish introduced latin alphabet and the Spanish language as the lingua franca, as well as a new education system theough universities and schools and a unifying world religion, most Hispanics are Catholic and can communicate with each other in Spanish. The Spanish brought gunpowder, political institutions and metalworking,

Many things the Spanish introduced in the Americas were new and nessecary, and irreplaceble by native equivalents. That wasn't the case in the Old World Philippines.

Apothecary was rambling on how the "superior" Spanish culture replaced inferior native Philippines culture. If the natives were inferior, how did the Moros defeat the Spanish for 300 years? Then the Spanish were the inferior culture to the Moros, who used gunpowder weapons and their political organization to defeat the Spanish in their attempts to conquer them. So native culture could stand up to the Spanish and had equivalents to what the Spanish introduced.
 
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I am just trying to understand your argument. If you believe that those countries dumped their old colonial names because they don't want to indentify with their colonial past, then there should be no mitigating reason why they should retain their use of the Spanish language, even if their creole or Hispanic population outnumber the native population of their respective countries.

How the Philippines did to address poverty should be a topic of separate discussion. I mentioned it because I believe it is the more pressing concern of the country than unnecessary changing the country's name. Changing the name will not bring food to the Filipino table.

Filipinos started to settle in Mindanao long before we had problems with population, so please don't relate non-implementation of the family planning program to Filipino migration to other parts of the country.

The Spanish invaded and conquered the Philippines with the intent of acting as a parasite on the native peoples and resources of the Philippines. The Philippines were at a major crossroads for trade, Spain sucked tribute from the Philippines and did not improve the living standard of the people.

The Spanish conquered colonies with the intent of finding treasure, one of their slogans went like: "God in the Sky, the King n Spain, and me here".

Everything the Spanish did in the Philippines was to streamline their parasitic activities. They converted the people to Catholicism as an excuse that they did it for saving the souls of the natives, but after the natives converted, the Spanish implemented a racist caste system against them and put the native indios at the bottom, the Spanish mixed mestizos after them and the pure blooded Spanish Filipinos on the top. They did not treat Catholic natives as equals. The friars they used to convert the natives broke their vows to be celibate and fathered many children with native women. Most of the population was uneducated and illiterate during Spanish rule.

This is the reason why the Philippines revolution in 1896 happened against the Spanish. When the Americans came, they found the population living in one of the lowest living standards possible. Britain built far more in India in 100 years than Spain did in the Philippines for 300 years.

A Filipino himself, who while he was extremely westernized and thinks Spanish and American colonization was a good thing, told me that the Spanish were racists, that they abused the Filipino population, about the grip of the Catholic Church on the Philippines, how malnourished Filipinos were during Spanish rule (he viewed the Americans as way better than the Spanish and credited them with raising the health standards of Filipinos, developing the country, and bringing religious freedom).

The Spanish sold Filipinos as slaves in Mexico after they were brought on the Manila-Acapulco galleons. The trade in Manila all benefited the Spanish. They sent the goods paid for in Manila with looted Aztec gold and silver back to Spain, not to benefit the natives. The Spanish practiced mercantalism on its colonies which is a parasitic policy the colonizing country uses on the colonized in order to benefit the colonizers.

See the points made here about Filipino identity and the Philippines which was created by the Spanish to help consolidate their cntrol over resources and trade routes.

After Bangsamoro: Do the Cordilleras, Visayas, and the rest of Mindanao have equal claim to autonomy? « Get Real Post

Should Mindanao secede from what could be turning into a failed state? « Get Real Post

Partitioning the Philippines - Is It Desirable? Is It Realistic? A Scholarly Conversation - FSI Stanford

The Philippines and the Spanish colonies in the America are different in that the pre colonial Philippines was old world and more advanced than the new world.

The Philippines had indigenous political systems (the Kingdom of Maynila, Kingdom of Tondo, and the Moro Sultanates), it had writing systems like Baybayin and Jawi (Arabic script), it had metalworking, gunpowder technology and weapons (Lezgapi discovered a Culverin, a type of cannon when he invaded the Kingdom of Maynila, and the Moros were equipped with cannons, guns, and culverins), an education system (the Moro Panditas educated the children and taught them how to read and write), a world religion (Islam). Malay was the lingua franca between the different language speakers in the Philippines, like it was in pretty much all of maritime southeast asia. There were many ships and boats and navies and the Philippines was a center for maritime trade with China and southeast asia.

The Americas lacked metalworking except for gold and silver which were used only for decorative purposes by the Aztecs and Incas. Only the Aztecs, Incas, and Mayans developed advanced political states and systems, the rest were tribal chiefdoms. Only the Mayans had a fully fledged writing system, but it was cumbersome and hyrieoglyphic. Only scribes new it. There was no gunpowder technology. There was no education system in much of the Americans, and no world religion, and no lingua franca. There was no navy or ships except tiny canoes. The Aztecs and Mayans had no navies.

The Spanish introduced latin alphabet, a world religion, gunpowder technology, metalworking, a lingua franca (Spanish language), an education system, and political systems to much of the Americas. Now hispanics from all over latin america can communicate with the lingua franca of Spanish and identify with a common religion. The Spanish introduced many new things which had no native equivalents in the Americas. Even then Spain was still a parasite on the Americas. It implemented the same racist caste system and sent massive amounts of gold and silver to Spain.

The old world Philippines was different. Much of what the Spanish introduced (mostly not for natives benefits, but for the benefits of the Spanish colonizers and exacting tribute to send to Spain) had native equivalents.

The Moros, with their advanced political states, education, writing system, gunpowder technology, naval ships, trade connections with China, metalworking, and their faith (Islam) defeated the Spanish for 300 years and beat back Spanish attempts to conquer them. Apothecary was rambling on how the "superior" Spanish culture defeated and replaced the native culture. Then the Moros must be superior to the Spanish since they beat them for so long.
 
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Wow flames wars again whole b.s your just full of it this whole thing just proves who brainless you are ignorant even
 
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hahahaha oo nga gago siya hayaan mo na yan gago yun utak bayag yun wala utak
 
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again people this just thread started by whole b.s to make you people fight this pointless debate what is in a name of country in place anyway?

India, Hind,Indes, Hindustan, Hindu, et all are important for the diverse peoples of SA to determine their identity. To us these are more than names that Shakespeare had lamented about, "What's in a name?"
 
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Apothecary and Zero_wing, please, stop your rambling.

As for everyone else, I think the name of the Philippines and the situation about it are domestic.
 
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India, Hind,Indes, Hindustan, Hindu, et all are important for the diverse peoples of SA to determine their identity. To us these are more than names that Shakespeare had lamented about, "What's in a name?"

Again sir no offense its whole bs you know him and many imperials here just want to start flame wars over nothing your talking about the value of those names but am talking about whole bs objective to just f all us over (i mean he started his b.s thread with my country and Indonesia i don't know why i guess as we filipinos would say KSP ang trip nito gago ito (just seeking attention) so clearly its not to offend the non imperials here i just reminding you guys that the solo objective of this thread is to f all of us for his own amusement like any imperial sinkit bihon to make his kind feel good about themselves

Apothecary and Zero_wing, please, stop your rambling.

As for everyone else, I think the name of the Philippines and the situation about it are domestic.

I think you just need to get life or better yet learn to say your real nationality they way use my flag sickens me! because a lot good people died for that flag and you using it is an insult to those people heck you fellow imperial chinaboys are just good at insulting, harnessing and stealing from folks
 
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