Çay Bahçesi

[TaiShang]

In case of China yes in case of Turkey we are not in need of a huge fleet to send stuff to next door! or if you like you may try to open a shipping line From Turkey to Iraq, Iran or may be Germany! We happened to be located just next to oil rich midle east and Europe with land conection i.e with in a day or two you can reach to Berlin or to Bagdad

We also happen to be connected to the entire Eurasia by land. The BRI-led rail lines are proof of it.

But, BRI also has its sea leg.

Shipping by sea is a very convenient, cheap and practical way of doing international trade. This does not mean land is insignificant. But, sea is significant, as well.

Sometimes, you do not trade with land-connected far-away places by land, but by sea.

Also, shipping capacity does not only suggest what you buy and sell, it also suggests what you help others buy and sell/import and export.

China is the world's No. 1 with the most number of land-sea neighbors. So, land transport is also important for it. But, sea transport is the most important for a great power to have reach to the entire planet. Remember, 70% of the world surface is water.

 

[bsruzm]

Please don't forget that you represent a country.

We aren't representing anything here but you are right lol
------
Well, I was out already. They ban you for anything but never touch those, who are close to admins, mods or who are Chinese. Plus, they try to play tough in our section as well.

 

[cabatli_53]

We have a natural climate to host threads of our brothers in our section. The members from Turkic countries coming Turkish section to introduce their developments in Kazakhstan, Turkmenistan, Azerbaijan main News&Discussion threads. We have our special rules to protect our values and cultures in here. I mean We have established our rules based on our tradition as We are in our country in this section. In this aspect, Uighurs are also a part of this community to be housed by Turkish section and Noone including you should attempt to change the ongoing climate of our section to satisfy the egoes of some trolls. It is not important How many times chinese trolls ruining many section of this forum to provake/disturb the members/mods because of they do not like what is being talked in here. MODs should have taken action, when ME section was ruined by Chinese trolls with opening 6-7 flamming threads each day to provoke Turkish members, not now when Turks has countered what they did. Pay attention, ME section has already been filled with many Chinese opened threads regarding Turkish politic and they keep openning more and more now. Do not you think They have a certain trolling agenda with disturbing ME section with those threads? How many times did you warn them for example? In this situation, Some Pakistani members may fall into trap of what chinese guys want you to put but We will not draw our discussion agenda based on wishes of outsiders in this section. @Dubious I just advice you to take a close look at ME section instead of stressing yourself with such decisions regarding Turkish section. I frequently quote MODs regarding insulting/cursing directed to Turkish tradition/values/members including me which should sometimes be given some members direct ban as a punishment but Noone mostly give a penny to what is going on in there. I even issued this matter in MOD’s room before but nothing really happened. Interestingly, You guys suddenly opened all your sense to adjust here for the sake of chinese trolls. You should have done it for ME section against chinese and arab trolls, not for Turkish section against Turkish members.

Besides, Today, It is Uighur information threads, chinese trolls want you to lock. One day, If china have a trouble with KaZakhstan for example, Would you block Turks not to talk about own realities about Kazahstani matters in our Kazakhstan related thread? I do not claim Turks are doing everything perfect during discussions and Locking many other threads causing problem is also understandable indeed since It is needed to decrease the tension but Locking some peacefull and informative threads regarding Uighurs is an open disrespect to the tradition of Turks and Those actions are like honoring the trollings/insultings/flammings of chinese guys with siding them. We do not have a consideration, nor toleration to justify the politic/hostile actions of any nation, because we are not slave of them. That is why we are trying to establish a free and independent domestic policy disturbing some states but That is the same head-strong character making us ruling the most strategic location of ME so do not force us to accept other’s official propaganda. I believe you will re-consider your decision about Turkish section.

Thanks.

 

[xenon54 out]

I really do not understand what you people are angry about and why you people do not see reason...I thought you, @xenon54 @Targon @Sinan out were friends....

I didnt think you would get blinded by hatred and anger!

You guys think we want you to choose sides but no we dont, the Chinese are your neighbors and iron brothers, not to mention they have more members and generate more traffic so lets leave that a side.
All we wanted was talking about a obviously highly sensible topic, we feel that millions of people dont deserve the treatment they get in China.
The problem is some notorious Chinese members come and troll which leads to what happened now and those members are known for their behavior for years now but they seem to have immunity in this forum.
And when we talk about it you guys say its pakistani forum so we should deal with it.
There is a reason why Chinese declare victory, one of them did it in your own thread which you opened yesterday. In a fair environment we would be allowed to talk about the topic and the Chinese trolls would get a ban for trolling. But expecting this would be naive for the reasons mentioned above.

I support my fellow countrymen in their righteous critisizm.

 

[azyr]

The nerve of the moderator that comes here and dares to rant about Turks! That's how two faced they actually are.

It seems that people have mastered "doublespeak" and are pretty proficient at it. Here, I'll paint the doublespeak for you in red

• You lock threads and punish the Turkish side here, but you label this as "protecting Turks"
• You enable the trolls to spill out from their own section into almost every corner of the forum - but actually it's the Turks fault that they're "triggered"
• You lack the spine to even warn Chinese members, and you brush that off with remarks like "well the thread is locked"

So which is it? Is the thread locked to "protect" the Turks, or is it an actual punishment like when you locked it for the Chinese?

You've been actively pushing the Turkish members here as down as you possibly can, while at the same time you DARE TO SAY that you're unfairly protecting us? Do you want to just curse at us too and be done with it?

Bending over backwards so your Chinese friends have better access might suit you - it also explains a lot about the Pakistani culture. It seems to have changed so much from what it was 20 years ago.

Back then Pakistanis were proud to be poor, they bravely showed the world that they ENDURE in the face of justice.

Today I can't find a difference between a Pakistani and a Israeli, both seem to have adopted the world view of "well there are geopolitic facts that we can't ignore". Good luck on your ventures, because "good will" will only last you for so long.

EDIT :

Forgot to add, how's the Chinaman holding up about your "dispute" with India? Is the "bending" actually finally paying off? No? Hmm.

 

[TaiShang]

It seems that people have mastered "doublespeak" and are pretty proficient at it. Here, I'll paint the doublespeak for you in red

I think you are being unfair here.

If you think you have right to open up threads in Turkish section about China's internal affairs in regards to alleged Uighur issues in Xinjiang province based on claims of ethnical kinship and religious similarity, then, other should have the right to open up threads about Turkey-based Kurds-related issues in their own sections based on ideological or religious affinity.

For once, I sympathize with leftist Kurdish struggle in Turkey. They are my ideological kins.

Yet, this hardly gives me the right to open up thread upon thread in Far East Section.

The world does not run around ethnical or religious affinities, but around nation states and borders.

This being a strategic defence forum, everybody needs to recognize and respect national sovereignty of each other.

Because, when you try to dig up stuff on a rival country, other come back and dig up more stuff about you. Everybody seems to have skeletons in their closet.

In this respect, I value the management by the Mods. I respect their efforts. Without their management, the forum would be a wild place. I have read some of people in this section use Turkish to insult mods heavily. Remember that people may have capacity to translate things into English.

Today I can't find a difference between a Pakistani and a Israeli, both seem to have adopted the world view of "well there are geopolitic facts that we can't ignore".

Indeed, geopolitics is the most important factor, especially in a defence forum. Here, we are not entitled to discuss defence of religion, but, national defence.

Besides, what is wrong with Israel? First of all, it is one of the most stable nations in the Middle East. Also, it is rather developed technologically. It has a high living standards for a Middle Eastern country with very little natural endowment.

We need to respect success, not despise them.

I wish Pakistan would have a similar technological development level as Israel.

 

[azyr]

I think you are being unfair here.

If you think you have right to open up threads in Turkish section about China's internal affairs in regards to alleged Uighur issues in Xinjiang province based on claims of ethnical kinship and religious similarity, then, other should have the right to open up threads about Turkey-based Kurds-related issues in their own sections based on ideological or religious affinity.

For once, I sympathize with leftist Kurdish struggle in Turkey. They are my ideological kins.

Yet, this hardly gives me the right to open up thread upon thread in Far East Section.

The world does not run around ethnical or religious affinities, but around nation states and borders.

This being a strategic defence forum, everybody needs to recognize and respect national sovereignty of each other.

Because, when you try to dig up stuff on a rival country, other come back and dig up more stuff about you. Everybody seems to have skeletons in their closet.

In this respect, I value the management by the Mods. I respect their efforts. Without their management, the forum would be a wild place. I have read some of people in this section use Turkish to insult mods heavily. Remember that people may have capacity to translate things into English.



Indeed, geopolitics is the most important factor, especially in a defence forum. Here, we are not entitled to discuss defence of religion, but, national defence.

Besides, what is wrong with Israel? First of all, it is one of the most stable nations in the Middle East. Also, it is rather developed technologically. It has a high living standards for a Middle Eastern country with very little natural endowment.

We need to respect success, not despise them.

I wish Pakistan would have a similar technological development level as Israel.

Thank you for the serious reply, it's becoming increasingly rarer to see this here.

Having said that, none of your points actually is an answer to my post though. You claim a defense oriented forum is not the place to "dig up skeletons" in the closet of other countries while I was talking about the obvious double standards the mods are holding up because China is literally paying Pakistan.

Now let's disassemble this ;

• First off, my post was about the double standards the mods have been sustaining these last few weeks / months regarding the rules on slander and curses flying about.
• On whether the place to talk about grievances is this forum or not; this is indeed a defense oriented forum, hence naturally enemies and coalitions fall into this category. Wars and skirmishes are held with issues talked about here. For instance the Kurdish terrorist group, the PKK, had a safe heaven in Syria, Turkey nearly went to war with Syria because of this and they had to reconcile to avoid it. So I believe that yes, this is the place to talk about such things. Also, you've got to keep in mind that these kinds of forums attract nationalists, as the topic being talked about is in a way the measure of the strength of a nation. So, naturally, these topics are brought up.
• On whether it's fair to "meddle" in China's affairs. Considering they are our own kin and the treatment they are subjected to is atrocious (for the lack of a better word) I'd consider it more then fair to talk about it in our OWN forum section. We weren't even at the China section - I mean to say that we weren't doing this to provoke China. But your response was digging up skeletons in our past. Try and compare the two : We're rightly concerned about the state of our own Kin living in China (with the rest of the world mind you), while you chose to retaliate with digging up skeletons in Turkey's past that doesn't affect you in any way. Are you sure you're in the right here?
• Regarding moderation and the state the forum would be in : This is de-railing the subject. No one is calling for a free-for-all forum, of course it needs to be moderated. In fact, if you've read the posts here you would see that we are calling FOR moderation and getting upset at the lack of it for certain participants.
• You also slipped in a remark about how some members are cursing mods in Turkish - that was pretty "random" and I'm not sure how to even respond to that, so I'm moving on.
• The bit about Israel. I didn't compare Pakistan of today with Israel because I feel countries of the same religion should defend each other. Nor did I do it because I think Israel is bad or anything. I compared them because Israel is famous for putting her interests before all else while Pakistan used to be known as a country who would put friendship and honor before materialism. But today, I see no difference, they've both become materialistic countries with their interests before all else.

I hope that comes across clear as I really don't want to de-rail the subject here (again, which is about the double standards the mod team has shown).

 

[Islamic faith&Secularism]

Heads up:

The current situation between Turks and Pakistanis here:

• https://defence.pk/pdf/threads/dear-chinese-and-turkish-members.604202/
• https://defence.pk/pdf/threads/cay-bahcesi.315137/page-1575

Some Pakistanis thank us for our open and official support against a country with over billion of citizens; meantime all Turks here complain and leave here for about the Moderation of Pakistanis in (this unoffical forum) on favour of a few Chinese members about threads of the De-Islamization and Identification in East Turkestan, despite no open and official support from China.

Sad and unfair.

So, As a Turk i cannot say the same at least for the mods and this forum.

 

[Ali Tariq]

So, As a Turk i cannot say the same at least for the mods and this forum.

Brother, it's just an online forum, don't take it seriously. If you want to know how much a common Pakistani loves Turkey and Turk nation, then come to Pakistan.

 

[Islamic faith&Secularism]

Brother, it's just an online forum, don't take it seriously. If you want to know how much a common Pakistani loves Turkey and Turk nation, then come to Pakistan.

The point you do not want to see:

We Turks almost are written in our brians and heart with your support(it was money but mean more than that for us) in our bad times; therefore the respect and solidarity are on the table for decades.

With this attitude here and also officials statements in Pakistan about the Muslim Turk of East Turkestan in De-Islamization and Identification; it will cause the same reaction with disrespect and revenge for the decades to come. Yet again, It is money China gives to Pakistan, but again it is money but mean more than money for us.

 

[Islamic faith&Secularism]

Don't be sad brother, everything will be alright now, Insha'Allah...!

Over 5 Turk members some were well-known by most of you have already left the forum; and more ready to go for unfairness.

It is like ... while some of Pakistanis appreciate our open and official support in international and real world; some others treat with unlogic and unfairness in this fictional forum for the sake of a few Chinese members.

 

[Indus Pakistan]

Heads up:

The current situation between Turks and Pakistanis here:

• https://defence.pk/pdf/threads/dear-chinese-and-turkish-members.604202/
• https://defence.pk/pdf/threads/cay-bahcesi.315137/page-1575

Some Pakistanis thank us for our open and official support against a country with over billion of citizens; meantime all Turks here complain and leave here for about the Moderation of Pakistanis in (this unoffical forum) on favour of a few Chinese members about threads of the De-Islamization and Identification in East Turkestan, despite no open and official support from China.

Sad and unfair.

So, As a Turk i cannot say the same at least for the mods and this forum.

I think I tried to explain to you before. We are with you but sometimes in business you have to be diplomatic. I hope you understand. Pakistan has always sided with Turkey over Cyprus, Armenia issue and over the Gulenists. We know we share nothing with Chinese. But try to understand. Do you know how many of our people from Northern Pakistan are married to Uigurs? Do not forget Pakistan is neighbour of Uighurs. They are right next door to us. But do try to understand the complexities.

And for what it's worth if push comes to shove I will openly say I support Turkey over China even if that means suicide. @T-123456 @KediKesenFare

 

[Ali Tariq]

Over 5 Turk members some were well-known by most of you have already left the forum; and more ready to go for unfairness.

It is like ... while some of Pakistanis appreciate our open and official support in international and real world; some others treat with unlogic and unfairness in this fictional forum for the sake of a few Chinese members.

Brother, read the comment posted by Indus Pakistan.

 

[Islamic faith&Secularism]

I think I tried to explain to you before. We are with you but sometimes in business you have to be diplomatic. I hope you understand. Pakistan has always sided with Turkey over Cyprus, Armenia issue and over the Gulenists. We know we share nothing with Chinese. But try to understand. Do you know how many of our people from Northern Pakistan are married to Uigurs? Do not forget Pakistan is neighbour of Uighurs. They are right next door to us. But do try to understand the complexities.

Then, you thank us for the sake of diplomcay; so should Turkey do and re-take that support given the business opportunities India can offer for our civilian and military industries.

It is like ... This forum has nothing to do with the diplomacy and policies between countries in the real world; Even it does, should we leave our Faith, Morality and Humanity for some money?

Some of you expect Turks here sit back and watch the De-Islamization/Identificaiton against The Muslim Turks of East Turkestan, say nothing and do nothing because of the money business between China and Pakistan.

Where is your humanity, morality and faith as muslims and citizens of the Islamic Republic?

 

[Indus Pakistan]

Then, you thank us for the sake of diplomcay; so should Turkey do and re-take that support given the business opportunities India can offer for our civilian and military industries.

It is like ... This forum has nothing to do with the diplomacy and policies between countries in the real world; Even it does, should we leave our Faith, Morality and Humanity for some money?

Some of you expect Turks here sit back and watch the De-Islamization/Identificaiton against The Muslim Turks of East Turkestan, say nothing and do nothing because of the money business between China and Pakistan.

Where is your humanity, morality and faith as muslims and citizens of the Islamic Republic?

Look I will explain later. I understand you sentiments but after I give proper explaination you will understand. In the meantime 'Turkey Zindabad'.

Ps. Leave this matter for now until I get back in the evening. Thanks.