Cash-strapped Pakistan buys submarines -F/T

[angeldemon_007]

bhai kya ek thread kum tha jo ek or post kar diya

I never into other sections except india defense.....it wasn't posted here.

Posted already and why are you putting in India defence?

Because it has its own effect on Indian defense....

Pakistan is buying 6 subs while India is looking to purchase 6. Strange isn;t it? It is known that Subs are a very critical arm of any military and it is a key area that Indian has not addressed with sufficient numbers. India needs to procure more numbers..

Everything is wrong when it comes to submarines in India. When we are paying 11 billion $ just for 6 subs, i don't think we can buy more. Its too expensive.
I also have a question about why in the god's name we spending so much for getting technology ?? We already got technology for diesel electric submarine from France under Scorpene deal, now how many times we want to spend on technology ?? Is this ToT thing not working for us ?? Is this technology transfer helped MDL to build subs on their own or not ??/ If not then whats the guarantee that even after spending 11 billion $ just for 6 conventional submarine with ToT we will be able to build subs on our own ??/ Shouldn't we then go for a JV or something like that ???

Pakistan was on the verge of finalizing a deal with German for 3 Type 214 subs in 1 billion $. We would have bought 33 subs in 11 billion $ and with such a big sales germans would have even transfered the production line to INDIA forget about ToT.

On top of all these the submarine building in India is very slow and instead of taking actions against the MDL which cost us extra 1 billion $ and a delay of 3 years we are awarding them with the projects for 3 more subs, this will never help them to change. They are not facing any competition from anyone. Private companies have set up infrastructure to build submarines as it was promised to them that P75I will be given to them but MOD has now changed their mind. I think they must sue the government if they give this project to MDL.

I also don't get what India is expecting in this new generation conventional submarine project ?? There is no conventional submarine in the world that should cost this much. DCNS is offering a 5 billion $ deal for the 6 new generation scorpene with AIP.

I also think, it was a foolish idea to reveal that we have funds worth 11 billion $ for this project. Now everyone will offer an expensive deal to us. Where is the chance to negotiate when you have already told everyone how much money is in your wallet ??/ I think this idiotic idea of revealing the funds sanctioned for P75I will cost us billions.

Brazil also signed a 9 billion $ deal with French and they are getting 5 new Scorpene with AIP, 1 nuke sub and with full ToT. Not to mention this deal also include building of a new world class shipyard in Brazil and these subs will be build there and when the production is over, the shipyard will be handed over to Brazil. I think, it was a very nice deal as compared to what we might get in P75I which is 6 subs with AIP with full ToTwhich we actually don't need as we already have tech from our last deal, we just need few new techs like AIP, which evidently our DRDO is already working on.

I just don't see the reason to spend 11 billion $ just for 6 subs even if its saying that we will get full ToT.

I think we should go along with french offer and with the remaining 6 billion we can directly purchase 18 subs from Germans without any tech and all. We need more subs in less time. It was planned to have a fleet of 25 subs by 2015 but that figure is impossible to reach now while China is making 1-2 subs every year.

 

[Kompromat]

There is a thread available , why don't you post it there?

 

[TOPGUN]

So once again trolls at there best and dumb comments flooding from haters unreal just killing the thread ... comon guys why do you start this bs stop this sh_t . It is Pakistan's business as if when India or China or any other nation buys arms or anything its their business why so much hate you know its bad for you health neither you like it or not we are going to get them causing tensions here won't change a damn thing plzz talk about peace and friendship for once and mind your own business .

 

[angeldemon_007]

There is a thread available , why don't you post it there?

Because this topic is worth a discussion in Indian forum...

 

[Pak_Sher]

Mods this thread needs to be merged.

 

[desiman]

Cash-strapped Pakistan buys submarines

Pakistan’s decision this week to begin negotiations with China to buy six submarines coincided with confirmation of figures showing that foreign direct investment is down 21 per cent to just $1bn in the first eight months of the financial year ending in June.

Clearly, worsening economic realities have been ignored by ruling politicians and powerful generals who seem convinced that the threat to Pakistan’s shipping lanes is greater than the multiple economic, social and political challenges faced on land.

Pakistan’s defence planners have sought to keep pace with military expansion in neighbouring India. Yet, with Pakistan’s economic performance falling well behind India’s, the effort may be futile in the long run.

Just last month, India’s annual budget was broadly welcomed by the business community in a sign of the country’s ability to continue attracting investors from within and abroad.

But in Pakistan, finance ministry officials have worked frantically to persuade the International Monetary Fund to resume lending after only U$7.5bn was disbursed from a U$11bn loan program.

For the Fund, the prospect of Pakistan’s annual budget deficit in the year to June soaring to as much as 8 per cent of GDP from a target of 4.7 per cent, without quick remedial measures, makes Pakistan, for now, an unacceptable client.

Some measures to raise revenue have been agreed between the IMF and the finance ministry this month, though it is impossible to predict exactly how soon they will begin to stop the haemorrhage.

In their defence, Pakistani officials have attributed a continuing economic downturn to losses run up by factors beyond their control, notably the effect of a security crisis unleashed by Taliban activity and last year’s devastating floods.

But Pakistan’s unimpressive economic record is deep-rooted. A glaring gap is the failure to revamp the tax collection system. Just over one per cent of the population pays an economic tax while repeated efforts to slap a robust VAT style sales tax have failed.

Besides, the country’s leaders hardly offer inspiration to others. Months after president Asif Ali Zardari spoke of plans to slap a new ‘flood tax’ on affluent Pakistanis to raise money to finance post-flood rebuilding, the government still has to enforce that measure.

On other fronts too, there is hardly much hope. While globally high oil prices following the conflict in Libya forced many countries to raise domestic petroleum prices, Pakistan’s ruling party-the Pakistan People’s Party (PPP) failed in passing on the full scale of higher oil prices to consumers.

The political cost in the shape of a break with a smaller political party which protested against price increases appeared to be unacceptable to president Zardari. Part of the budget deficit will come from the cost of the domestic fuel subsidies.

If indeed a submarine deal with China is successfully concluded, Pakistan’s generals will probably pat themselves on the back for part filling the so-called strategic gap (with India).

Islamabad’s long-established defence ties with Beijing will be further reinforced following earlier projects undertaken by the two in jointly producing fighter planes, warships and tanks. But if Pakistan’s economy continues to sink, the country’s armed forces could well be faced with terrestrial challenges with the Taliban and others in which submarines may be little help. Meanwhile, India gets richer by the day.

Cash-strapped Pakistan buys submarines | beyondbrics | News and views on emerging markets from the Financial Times

 

[CaptainJackSparrow]

Good news! Hope they spend all of their GDP on defence.

 

[desiman]

Good news! Hope they spend all of their GDP on defence.

lol and someone was calling India the USSR of Asia

 

[Trisonics]

I think each country has its own priorities and no need to remind them what is right..they would know.

It comes as no surprise if you check the links below. They know what they want and its none of our business they think submarines are important right now..so yeah none of our business.

http://www.defence.pk/forums/current-events-social-issues/97108-education-emergency-pakistan.html

http://www.defence.pk/forums/curren...an-spends-7-times-more-arms-than-schools.html

http://www.defence.pk/forums/current-events-social-issues/97827-more-missiles-more-schools.html

 

[monitor]

Its true that Pakistan's economic condition is not good and internal conflict is hindering foreign direct investment in Pakistan . But this economic scenario never be a obstacle for defence Planning, as its adversary is going ahead of many program it will be suicidal to cut defence budget . i think Pakistani defence planners are well aware of the economic and political situation thats why they are contemplating on buying Chinese submarine instead of long discussed u-214 from Germany . if these planed purchase and other possible purchase happens pakistan navy can narrow the gap between its adversary .

 

[Dance]

How many times are you indians going to post this article?!

http://www.defence.pk/forums/military-forum/98300-cash-strapped-pakistan-buys-submarines-f-t.html

http://www.defence.pk/forums/india-defence/98315-cash-strapped-pakistan-buys-submarines.html


Seriously I feel all you guys do is spend your time looking for stupid articles like this. Please get a life people!

 

[Renegade]

We all could learn a lesson or a two from the Pakistanis on how to financially rip the Americans. It is simply amusing to note that for all the military aid provided by Washington, it is Beijing that benefits the most.

Can anyone specify as to what type of submarines does the PN intend to buy? & what's the progress on the Nuke submarine that the PN was intending to lease from Beijing?

 

[Tiki Tam Tam]

There is no doubt that Pakistan's economy is not buoyant.

From the Pakistan's defence point of view, it has two important ports to guard, and given the last war's experience at the Karachi port, there is no doubt that there is a dire necessity for throwing a submarine screen to protect these ports.

In addition, it has to have an offensive capability if it is enhance its strategic influence on the seas.

These submarines, while it may not meet both the defensive and offensive imperatives necessary for Pakistan, it could be taken as starters.

It so far as being cash strapped, Pakistan has made a difficult choice given the necessity of national building, improving its anti terrorist response and meeting its social imperatives.

Its effect will be borne by the Pakistan citizenry and therefore it is their call to experience the result of the decision.

 

[Elmo]

Thread reopened.

To all users, check if the thread exists before starting a new one. i just merged comments from three thread posted within hours of each other.

 

[Kompromat]

Good news! Hope they spend all of their GDP on defence.

We don't have to because we have got Nukes as a final measure as you know