Case filed against Imran Khan by Justice Party for Treason

[I M Sikander]

Indeed. Allow him to actually run for office, and let us see what happens.

If Nawaz Sharif was so confident, he wouldn't have run him out of the country. But if I was him, I would be worried too.

Bhagora commando can't even win a counselor seat and here you are making idiotic tall claims.

 

[Finer]

So you are okay with the injustice just to give this fake democracy a chance? I agree with the argument that majority's choice should be respected but the manner in which that choice has been made is it transparent? the majority that made that choice are they educated enough to think about consequences of their decision?

I have no love for any current political leaders in Pakistan, Imran Khan is a liar I have heard him saying hospitals are not clean over and over in his speeches ............... but when I visited one of the government hospitals in Abbottabad I was shocked, trash lying in wards, smell all over, no janitorial staff in sights.

These liars cannot be given chances again and again so that our luli langri jamhooriat can survive. We need an authoritative leadership right now that is capable of multitasking that can revive our education system, that can speed our survival projects, that can boost our diplomatic efforts.

It appears you don't understand how the democracy process works. Since you are eager for justice, then explain what would happen to the system, any system whether it is Marshall Law, Democracy, Communism,...etc, if the leader is stopped midway under the name of justice?

I could care less about Imran Khan. The accountability should be done after one leader completes its term provided the process of the system goes smoothly which is beneficial for the system and the people of the nation.

Today, Pakistan is announced to be hottest equity market in South Asia. Why?

It boils down to the leadership and the stability.

According to the report from Quartz India:

Investment in infrastructure, coupled with aggressive government spending, is making Pakistani markets attractive to investors. Further stability in politics will only help

That's why the accountability should take place after the government completes its term for the sake of stability.

Musharraf was a better leader than Nawaz Sharif will ever be. He may have overstayed his welcome, but his record was far superior to Mian Saab.

Musharraf is the reason TTP and MQM flourished. Nawaz Sharif is the one who is cleaning the mess by launching Zarb-e-Azb mission against TTP and expanded to MQM. Again,

Musharraf was better leader for letting terrorism and criminal activity to flourish and then dumping the mess along with unstable economy on Nawaz Sharif to clean the mess by stabilizing the economy again and eradication terrorism/criminal activity by huge portion, is not better leader than Musharraf was.

The irony of your post will never fail to entertain.

how is it treason to call a spade a spade. first try to emulate turkey in governance then TALK.[/QUOTE]

Indeed. Allow him to actually run for office, and let us see what happens.

If Nawaz Sharif was so confident, he wouldn't have run him out of the country. But if I was him, I would be worried too.

Same can be said about Generals. If Generals were so confident of public support, they wouldn't need to resort to illegally takeover against the wills of the nation.

 

[LA se Karachi]

It appears you don't understand how the democracy process works. Since you are eager for justice, then explain what would happen to the system, any system whether it is Marshall Law, Democracy, Communism,...etc, if the leader is stopped midway under the name of justice?

I could care less about Imran Khan. The accountability should be done after one leader completes its term provided the process of the system goes smoothly which is beneficial for the system and the people of the nation.

Today, Pakistan is announced to be hottest equity market in South Asia. Why?

It boils down to the leadership and the stability.

According to the report from Quartz India:


That's why the accountability should take place after the government completes its term for the sake of stability.



Musharraf is the reason TTP and MQM flourished. Nawaz Sharif is the one who is cleaning the mess by launching Zarb-e-Azb mission against TTP and expanded to MQM. Again,

Musharraf was better leader for letting terrorism and criminal activity to flourish and then dumping the mess along with unstable economy on Nawaz Sharif to clean the mess by stabilizing the economy again and eradication terrorism/criminal activity by huge portion, is not better leader than Musharraf was.

The irony of your post will never fail to entertain.

how is it treason to call a spade a spade. first try to emulate turkey in governance then TALK.

Raheel Sharif has been getting rid of TTP, not Mian Saab. Wrong "Sharif".

Musharraf never liked the TTP anyway. They morphed into something else entirely, and we have been fighting them ever since. He took many steps against terrorists, unlike in the 90s.

Secondly, Musharraf grew the economy at much faster rate than Nawaz Sharif. It has been disappointing thus far under Mian Saab. Despite the fact our South Asian neighbors are doing very well in this regard.

 

[Finer]

Raheel Sharif has been getting rid of TTP, not Mian Saab. Wrong "Sharif".

Musharraf never liked the TTP anyway. They morphed into something else entirely, and we have been fighting them ever since. He took many steps against terrorists, unlike in the 90s.

Secondly, Musharraf grew the economy at much faster rate than Nawaz Sharif. It has been disappointing thus far under Mian Saab. Despite the fact our South Asian neighbors are doing very well in this regard.

Musharraf took advantage of stable economy during the booming era. If he was really that competent, then why he dumped unstable economy on its successors which you conveniently ignored.

General Raheel answers to PMLN, not the other way. TTP+MQM flourished under the ruling of Marshall Law. General Raheel wouldn't be any different and same case with General Zia Haq.

Generals love to take credit, but when they are in power, that's when they are exposed with lack of strength to tackle the real problems. To the extent, Musharraf didn't like TTP so he waited for PMLN to finish TTP. History with Generals hasn't been very kind.

In 90s, PMLN launched the military mission against MQM twice and was close to finish MQM second time, but Musharraf illegally took over and allowed MQM to flourish and TTP to be born. That shows Generals in powers have been coward to take action historically.

It is better if they respond to the democratic elected government who is not afraid to launch military operation against MQM three times in a row [historically] and TTP which Musharraf allowed that to be born in the first place. The policy of Talibans is the mark of Generals as well, historically.

 

[LA se Karachi]

Musharraf took advantage of stable economy during the booming era. If he was really that competent, then why he dumped unstable economy on its successors which you conveniently ignored.

General Raheel answers to PMLN, not the other way. TTP+MQM flourished under the ruling of Marshall Law. General Raheel wouldn't be any different and same case with General Zia Haq.

Generals love to take credit, but when they are in power, that's when they are exposed with lack of strength to tackle the real problems. To the extent, Musharraf didn't like TTP so he waited for PMLN to finish TTP. History with Generals hasn't been very kind.

In 90s, PMLN launched the military mission against MQM twice and was close to finish MQM second time, but Musharraf illegally took over and allowed MQM to flourish and TTP to be born. That shows Generals in powers have been coward to take action historically.

It is better if they respond to the democratic elected government who is not afraid to launch military operation against MQM three times in a row [historically] and TTP which Musharraf allowed that to be born in the first place. The policy of Talibans is the mark of Generals as well, historically.

If Musharraf took advantage of a booming era, why can't Nawaz Sharif??? Other countries in South Asia are doing great.

Mian Saab answers to Raheel Sharif, not the other way around. If the military wanted him gone, he would disappear immediately.

The whole world entered a recession in 2008. He didn't "dump" anything on anyone. He wanted to stay. You conveniently ignored that. First you people protested non-stop telling him to step down, then accuse him "dumping" things on his successor when he leaves. Unbelievable.

 

[I.R.A]

It appears you don't understand how the democracy process works. Since you are eager for justice, then explain what would happen to the system, any system whether it is Marshall Law, Democracy, Communism,...etc, if the leader is stopped midway under the name of justice?

May be I don't understand democracy because I have never lived in one and I have never experienced it in Pakistan, but please do tell me what is needed more in Pakistan Justice or Democracy? Look around the globe and may be you will see that real democracy is not dependent on personalities and their useless offspring, it does not matter in a real democracy if the leader is stopped midway and subjected to justice. I for one would support justice over democracy at any given time.

Today, Pakistan is announced to be hottest equity market in South Asia. Why?

It boils down to the leadership and the stability.

Leadership which one? Political? You must be joking. Please don't insult me by making me believe that a Prime Minister from type writer's age led Pakistan to be hottest market when his Finance minister acts like more of a Munshi than a qualified professional............................

That's why the accountability should take place after the government completes its term for the sake of stability.

For goodness sake man ..................... Why these useless thugs are indispensable? Why Pakistanis are made to believe that Pakistan a country of 200 million would be left unstable if Nawaz Sharif, Zaradri, Imran Khan, or any other idiot and their equally useless offspring is asked difficult questions?

None of them is there to serve Pakistan because they feel the pain of common Pakistanis .......... they are there because it is a lucrative spot where they can feel to be emperors and kings and prince and princesses ..................... as late Qudratullah Shahab wrote in one of his books "Whosoever enters that white building does not want to leave it after sometime"

 

[Finer]

Raheel Sharif has been getting rid of TTP, not Mian Saab. Wrong "Sharif".

Musharraf never liked the TTP anyway. They morphed into something else entirely, and we have been fighting them ever since. He took many steps against terrorists, unlike in the 90s.

Secondly, Musharraf grew the economy at much faster rate than Nawaz Sharif. It has been disappointing thus far under Mian Saab. Despite the fact our South Asian neighbors are doing very well in this regard.

Raheel Sharif responds to PMLN, not the other way regardless of what so-called propaganda says. The same PMLN that turned down the proposal of General two years ago based on the peace proposal of Imran Khan. Then, TTP made it clear why PMLN gave the military proposal a chance proposed by General Kiyani, not General Raheel. Get your fact straight.

Nawaz Sharif is the federal government of Pakistan. Without his permission, General can't do anything. Why do you think coup take place? Because they don't like not having authority to command and they hate being commanded by the democratic elected government

Under Musharraf, TTP was born and MQM flourished. Care to admit Musharraf likes MQM who admitted on record that it was bad idea to authorize military operation against MQM little while ago? Then fielded soft-corner tactics for TTP during his ruling is far from the truth?

Musharraf was given stable economy during the booming era. Nawaz Sharif assumed the power after Musharraf left the unstable economy coupled with the birth of TTP and MQM thriving on its successors, Zardari, and then, Nawaz Sharif who came at the time when Pakistan reached to the worst position in term of economically and security.

Musharraf was given stable economy and what did he do? He plunged its to the down within 7 years. That shows what kind of leader he was. Contrast to PMLN who actually repaired the mess left by Musharraf shows what kind of leader he is. Nawaz Sharif is proven to be problem solver, twice in a row.

Why do you think Musharraf was forced to resign? Do you think Pakistanis will be pleased that under Musharraf after 7 years, the economy went down the drain? Did you really think they were gonna be generous with Musharraf who changed the fate of Karachi for worse by allowing MQM to flourish and put the whole Pakistan at stake by not doing anything about TTP?

Given the history, Generals always had luxury to screw up with the economy that democratic elected never did, and never will as the attempting coup never fail to stop. Even today, Generals haven't brought to the accountability for the mistakes they made knowingly or unknowingly.

Only democratic leaders can been accounted for their actions in the past and always will be. That also answers to you despite your entire rant. The justice will be served because democratic elected leaders had been punished in the past and future won't be any different. The real problem is Generals who get away all the times without being accounted for their crimes. @User

The real issue is who gets to decide who deserve the punishment? Pakistan army is far from the clean. Pakistan court is neither clean. Polices who have reputation of bribery? The nation that is involved in corruption on massive levels and involved in tax evasion gets to decide ? Or selective justice is instead preferable because Pakistan prefers with one eye than no eye at all? Maybe either for all or none for all? Selective justice has its own price too.

 

[LA se Karachi]

Raheel Sharif responds to PMLN, not the other way regardless of what so-called propaganda says. The same PMLN that turned down the proposal of General two years ago based on the peace proposal of Imran Khan. Then, TTP made it clear why PMLN gave the military proposal a chance proposed by General Kiyani, not General Raheel. Get your fact straight.

Nawaz Sharif is the federal government of Pakistan. Without his permission, General can't do anything. Why do you think coup take place? Because they don't like not having authority to command and they hate being commanded by the democratic elected government

Under Musharraf, TTP was born and MQM flourished. Care to admit Musharraf likes MQM who admitted on record that it was bad idea to authorize military operation against MQM little while ago? Then fielded soft-corner tactics for TTP during his ruling is far from the truth?

Musharraf was given stable economy during the booming era. Nawaz Sharif assumed the power after Musharraf left the unstable economy coupled with the birth of TTP and MQM thriving on its successors, Zardari, and then, Nawaz Sharif who came at the time when Pakistan reached to the worst position in term of economically and security.

Musharraf was given stable economy and what did he do? He plunged its to the down within 7 years. That shows what kind of leader he was. Contrast to PMLN who actually repaired the mess left by Musharraf shows what kind of leader he is. Nawaz Sharif is proven to be problem solver, twice in a row.

Why do you think Musharraf was forced to resign? Do you think Pakistanis will be pleased that under Musharraf after 7 years, the economy went down the drain? Did you really think they were gonna be generous with Musharraf who changed the fate of Karachi for worse by allowing MQM to flourish and put the whole Pakistan at stake by not doing anything about TTP?

Given the history, Generals always had luxury to screw up with the economy that democratic elected never did, and never will as the attempting coup never fail to stop. Even today, Generals haven't brought to the accountability for the mistakes they made knowingly or unknowingly.

Only democratic leaders can been accounted for their actions in the past and always will be. That also answers to you despite your entire rant. The justice will be served because democratic elected leaders had been punished in the past and future won't be any different. The real problem is Generals who get away all the times without being accounted for their crimes. @User

The real issue is who gets to decide who deserve the punishment? Pakistan army is far from the clean. Pakistan court is neither clean. Polices who have reputation of bribery? The nation that is involved in corruption on massive levels and involved in tax evasion gets to decide ? Or selective justice is instead preferable because Pakistan prefers with one eye than no eye at all? Maybe either for all or none for all? Selective justice has its own price too.

You are kidding yourself if you think that Raheel Sharif and the Pakistan Army do exactly what Mian Saab tell them to do. Generals can do a lot if they want to. Things haven't gotten as bad as 1999 just yet (thanks in no small part to the army's influence).

Whatever one thinks about the MQM, they win elections in Karachi, just like your PML(N). He tried to keep peace with them, because he knew fighting them would result in no good for anyone. Karachi was relatively safe and very prosperous under his (and MQM's) rule. Unlike under Mian Saab in the 1990s and currently, or under Bhutto/Zardari.

TTP came out of the disintegrating situation and Afghanistan and FATA. I don't know why you are trying to shamefully tie Musharraf to the TTP. He took action against terrorists and subversive elements like the Lal Masjid siege, unlike Mian Saab who waited until Peshawar to really go after the TTP.

You are being willfully ignorant in regards to economic issues. Musharraf was given a poor economy with growth fluctuating from 3-4% under Nawaz Sharif. Even with the global economic downturn of 2008 included, Musharraf is #3. The economy has always done best under military rulers. Get your facts straight. Even Yahya Khan did better than Nawaz Sharif:

The military, while not perfect, are far superior to their "civilian" counterparts, and far less corrupt. The real problem are civilian leaders and their kin who keep coming back again and again, never receiving justice for their crimes, despite their poor performances.

 

[Finer]

You just answered yourself why those bad combinations you mentioned above were the responsible of the economy declined, and that too at the helm of Musharraf.

You avoided to the point where the economy digressed as Generals left. Why not show that in graph?

TTP borne under the ruling of Musharraf. Being General with full power, he did nothing. He even allowed MQM to flourish. While you are using Lal Masjid as point which he took strict action due to the International pressure that forced him. If it wasn't for International pressure, he would only lets the situation escalate to the further worse.

In contrast, At least PMLN tried. By legalizing Zarb-e-Azb mission after tried Imran Khan's way at first [so-called peace initiative] by showing he was open to the public decision. Then public changed its mind and demanded military operation. He gave it exactly what the public wanted. He didn't even delay it.

For years, the public protested out loud for Musharraf ignoring consistent attacks by TTP. Musharraf was being coward at that time. Then, MQM flourished in Karachi where he pretended to look the other way because MQM was so dear to him.

Coming back to the point, you didn't even show where the democracy picked it from as they replaced the dictators? Showing the selective won't prove anything in front of the world.

Historically, Generals have been cowards judging by their lack of strength to take risk. Even if you give credit to General Raheel Sharif, the truth is PMLN launched the military operation against TTP and MQM. Historically, not the first time PMLN did judging by its first two military operation against MQM and it won't be last.

 

[LA se Karachi]

You just answered yourself why those bad combinations you mentioned above were the responsible of the economy declined, and that too at the helm of Musharraf.

You avoided to the point where the economy digressed as Generals left. Why not show that in graph?

TTP borne under the ruling of Musharraf. Being General with full power, he did nothing. He even allowed MQM to flourish.

Why not show where the democracy picked it from? Showing the selective won't prove anything in front of the world.

So you agree that Nawaz Sharif has done much worse than Musharraf, the economy went down in 2008 because of global markets, and despite that he still did a much better job than Mian Saab? Also that the TTP were not his fault, and that Army is superior to most civilian leaders (including Nawaz Sharif)? Okay I guess...

 

[Finer]

So you agree that Nawaz Sharif has done much worse than Musharraf, the economy went down in 2008 because of global markets, and despite that he still did a much better job than Mian Saab? Also that the TTP were not his fault, and that Army is superior to most civilian leaders (including Nawaz Sharif)? Okay I guess...

You mean Nawaz Sharif came at the worst situation created by Musarraf citing the birth of TTP and allowed MQM to flourish? And now, PMLN is cleaning the mess by launching the military operation against TTP and MQM which is something Musarraf should have done long time ago.

Forget that, the second time PMLN came so close to finish MQM. Since Musharraf illegally took over postponed the PMLN mission to finish MQM. Why didn't Musharraf finish MQM when its was weak by the time? What stopped Musharraf from finishing MQM never mind allowing the birth of TTP to take place?

Not one of my question you have answered. At least, i have answered your to explain why PMLN didn't enjoy good stats. Because PMLN was busy cleaning the mess and stabilizing the economy left at the end by Musharraf which you so conveniently chose not to translate into graph, and to the extent, PMLN didn't have the luxury to take the stable economy to the forward unlike Musharraf who did only to plunge the economy down the drain.

 

[LA se Karachi]

You mean Nawaz Sharif came at the worst situation created by Musarraf citing the birth of TTP and allowed MQM to flourish? And now, PMLN is cleaning the mess by launching the military operation against TTP and MQM which is something Musarraf should have done long time ago.

Forget that, the second PMLN came so close to finish MQM. Musharraf came. Why didn't Musharraf finish MQM when its was weak by the time? What stopped Musharraf from finishing MQM never mind allowing the birth of TTP to take place?

Not one of my question you have answered. At least, i have answered your to explain why PMLN didn't enjoy good stats. Because PMLN was busy cleaning the mess and stabilizing the economy left at the end by Musharraf which you so conveniently chose not to translate into graph, and to the extent, PMLN didn't have the luxury to take the stable economy to the forward unlike Musharraf who did only to plunge the economy down the drain.

I'm not ignoring anything, you are. Nawaz Sharif left behind a poor economy, and only a couple years later it was flourishing under Musharraf, unlike any of Mian Saab's stints as PM. Also, Zardari and the PPP took over after Musharraf, not Nawaz Sharif & PML(N). His current stint does not include 2008 or 2009, which is when the economy really suffered (along with all other countries) due to global forces not under the Pakistani government's control. The figure I provided does include the downturn, and yet as a whole, Musharraf did better anyway. The rest of South Asia is doing very well right now, but PML(N) is unable to do the same, unlike under Musharraf.

MQM will always be there, right or wrong. Nawaz Sharif was no where close to "finishing it", nor would it have solved much. He recognized these facts and tried to work with them as much as he could, despite the difficulty, and Karachi flourished.

Musharraf did not "allow" the TTP to take place, it happened on its own. And he fought extremists throughout his tenure, perhaps more so than any other leader in Pakistan's history. Meanwhile, Nawaz Sharif waited until Peshawar to truly take action against the TTP.

You haven't responded to my main points with statistics and examples. I have answered all of yours, many of them two or three times already. If you don't like them, that is another matter.

 

[Arsalan]

Funny to see lectures of democracy from Zia,s broodlings

https://defence.pk/threads/stupid-funny-from-around-the-world-continued.397229/page-235#post-8492898

 

[Zibago]

Thanks

https://defence.pk/threads/stupid-funny-from-around-the-world-continued.397229/page-235#post-8492898

 

[Hyde]

I had never heard about this party or about its Chairman before... Thats how you become popular these days