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Its funny when clusless bharti hindus start behaving like aalims.

At least you are honest about yourself. :cheers:

What is disappointing (to put it mildly), is that people, with the exception of a few, going on for 10 pages without knowing what the SOP dictates!!

OH AND lets not forget the clueless Indians, their level of intellect or hatred is truly remarkable :tup: (Sarcasm intended)
 
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You too Qamar??
Look at what your fellow Pakistanis have to say about it.
Or read Oscar, Atanz, secur's post on this thread. You will understand what I meant.
No who are they? Do they know more about religious mattes than rest? Apparently they r ignorant of the matter discussed here. This way of Namaz was described by Prophet Muhammad (pbuh) during battle of ahzab, go read on it before trolling because Namaz is the most fundamental duty of every Muslim and there is no escape from it no excuses except for the cases described by Prophet and Quran and this is not one of them. And plz do understand that Islam is complete and easiest religion there is, it can still be practiced now as it was 1400 years ago. So quote something of import.
And secondly in case of attack breaking his Namaz will become wajib so don't u worry about his duty.
And the first time I came to know about this subject was from PN employed cleric explaining high level naval officers the very same matter which means military encourages it rather than discourage it so plz stop commenting on our religion of which u don't anything about.
 
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Indians on here complaining and shit. It take like 5 minutes to pray plus there is another guy standing guard. So what's the problem? We Muslims care for the next life way more than this one.
 
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how does this apply to the urban situation of no-warning attacks which are hit-and-run or suicide-bombing, with the attackers looking no different from ordinary citizens, with the attackers not expected to obey agreed code of conduct about border lines??

you are being stubborn for no valid reason except the desire to appear "more muslim"... sad, because i had thanked your post in the "selfies" thread.

We Muslims care for the next life way more than this one.

don't be silly, sir.

seems like your the only people who have problem with it...we pakistanis are fine.

no sir, you should go join the syrian army... they are fighting a full war.

i remember you once said that you and razpak "look for trouble"... i showed you a place of troubles.

No who are they? Do they know more about religious mattes than rest? Apparently they r ignorant of the matter discussed here. This way of Namaz was described by Prophet Muhammad (pbuh) during battle of ahzab, go read on it before trolling because Namaz is the most fundamental duty of every Muslim and there is no escape from it no excuses except for the cases described by Prophet and Quran and this is not one of them. And plz do understand that Islam is complete and easiest religion there is, it can still be practiced now as it was 1400 years ago. So quote something of import.
And secondly in case of attack breaking his Namaz will become wajib so don't u worry about his duty.
And the first time I came to know about this subject was from PN employed cleric explaining high level naval officers the very same matter which means military encourages it rather than discourage it so plz stop commenting on our religion of which u don't anything about.

none of your statements are true or practical or beneficial.

true islam may be the easiest religion but south asian muslims, especially of the last 20 years, have made it nothing less than a complicated, painful and idolating affair with no relevance to real world... true islam is socialism... anything else is fakery.

please look at the nepal earthquake and its demolishing of human-built prayer houses and learn.
 
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We will discuss this subject when I have more time - I look forward to your input. Alcohol or drugs can be banned on their qualifiers as you probably drugs are regulated in Christian, secular, Buddhist, Shinto societies. Anyway we leave this for some other time ...
Very well, some other time.

Christian, Buddhist and Shinto aren't secular, so they're irrelevant. As far as secular societies with religion-based laws, their degree of secularism is pretty low.

My point is that as long as the majority population is religious, you can't really have secularism and it would do no good anyway since social issues will remain.

You can open another thread and tag me in it if you like.

true islam is socialism.
No. Trade and some level of commerce is encouraged. Unlike in socialism, Islam encourages that people who work harder earn more. True Islam is justice.
 
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Do you know the SOP for Rangers and Armed Forces Personnel, for prayers while on duty?
Although we have SOPs even on how tie a lace, but why would we require an SOP on this subject?
 
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No. Trade and some level of commerce is encouraged. Unlike in socialism, Islam encourages that people who work harder earn more. True Islam is justice.

of course true islam is justice... no doubts... but the economics of islam was innovation for the time it came about... though prophet jesus raged against interest-based lending, it was only during islam's establishment that such economics was declared illegal and also came about looking at economics from all levels ( example, the formal system of property inheritance )... and i call all this "early socialism".

and every good idea must be refined and simplified... that is the natural course of things... modern truly-socialist societies made things like housing as a duty of the state to provide to the citizens without exchange of money... this wasn't there in islam but should be considered as elongation of long line of progresses of humanity, especially in old history, of prophet jesus and prophet muhammad.

it is inevitable that money system be abolished, as money's existence is reason for most of humanity's problems... the proper scientific human near-future will not have money system.
 
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Although we have SOPs even on how tie a lace, but why would we require an SOP on this subject?

Bhai Sahab, in the field, are Jawans allowed to waltz off, and do anything as they please? Last time I remember, they had to take permission even to take a leak!

I'm confused by your statement. What exactly are you trying to say?

1) They are free to pray without the JCO / platoon commander's permission?

2) They are not supposed to pray at all?

Kindly elaborate. Thank You!

how does this apply to the urban situation of no-warning attacks which are hit-and-run or suicide-bombing, with the attackers looking no different from ordinary citizens, with the attackers not expected to obey agreed code of conduct about border lines??

you are being stubborn for no valid reason except the desire to appear "more muslim"... sad, because i had thanked your post in the "selfies" thread.

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1) Look at the following picture. Tell me how many LEA officers do you see, EXCLUDING the one praying:

mn.jpg


2) Just because you thanked me on a certain thread:
a) Does NOT give you a license to talk nonsense
b) Remove your thanks and see IF I care!
 
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no sir, you should go join the syrian army... they are fighting a full war.

i remember you once said that you and razpak "look for trouble"... i showed you a place of troubles.
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biggest derailment of a thread ever... wtf does this have to do with anything??
your indians are wrong. this soldier is doing nothing wrong and if you want a debate on this subject let do it. either keep your mouth shut.
 
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Bhai Sahab, in the field, are Jawans allowed to waltz off, and do anything as they please? Last time I remember, they had to take permission even to take a leak!

I'm confused by your statement. What exactly are you trying to say?

1) They are free to pray without the JCO / platoon commander's permission?

2) They are not supposed to pray at all?

Kindly elaborate. Thank You!
What's so hard to understand here? Hint: How many times have you seen the Police chap guarding a mosque during Jumma or Eid prayers abandoning his post and joining the prayer when the jam'at is up?
 
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Pakistanis are religious people, there is nothing that can change that. The most we can change is reduce extremism and learn to tolerate differences of opinion. That would handle all the Qadris and Mullahs.

I'll be blunt: your statement about ''the religious brigade'' is nonsense. Over 90% of Pakistan is religious. Some more than others. But to claim that they have ''no loyalty to Pakistan'' because they have more loyalty to God is preposterous.

And so is your point about ''arrogating the right'' to pray. To arrogate means to claim something unjustly. The soldier definitely has the right to pray, he doesn't have to claim it.

Prayer is an essential element of Islam, and Islam is an essential part of the lives of the overwhelming majority of Pakistanis. That is not changing anytime soon. Problems in Islam are like mold on a wall. You don't demolish the entire wall to remove mold - you just remove the mold. It would be infinitely more practical, realistic and effective to educate people and ensure no one takes the authority to kill or fight in the name of religion than it would be to remove religion entirely.

Also, since we're on the topic about extremism, your statement that you'd ''throw him off the bridge'' for praying is nothing short of extremism. I don't care if it's secular or whatever, it is extremism.

You don't know exactly what happened there or what the circumstances were; you said it ''appears to you'' that he is on duty and your opinion and perception is based on inferences from a still picture. A few points to consider are that he is covered by his colleague standing a few feet away, so he has not left the post exposed. He probably requested the other guy to cover for him, or was on break and decided it would be more convenient to pray on the street near his post instead of going somewhere else and then return to his post after the break had ended. These are also inferences from the same picture and thus are as valid as your observations.

With that in mind, it is too hasty, improvident and unjust to condemn this man to death or severe injury like you did.

And it has nothing to do with some extremist form of ''piety'' or ''ritualism'', soldiers need some belief and some hope with the kind of hardships they face, it is perfectly rational and reasonable. For this soldier, and many others, it is religion. Why you'd wish to take that away from him is beyond me. The few minutes he spends praying doesn't reduce his effectiveness as a soldier - it probably increases his morale and tolerance tenfold, thus increasing his effectiveness as a soldier.

Quoted for truth,You put it perfectly...
 
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I care least what apartheid Hindutvawadis said here for what else they'd have said if not what they did but reaction from some Pakistani members was kind of disappointing. It was even said that Namaz was skipped during Ghazwat whereas it is documented that Muslims used to pray in smaller groups even in the heat of the battle if possible. Allamaq Iqbal has so beautifully pointed towards this in his following stanza of Shikwa:

View attachment 224011

Muslims in general are emotional, and Pakistanis in particular. Passing judgments based on a single 2D picture and questioning the commitment of the particular soldier was kind of too harsh.
Apartheid hindutvawadis???
Name calling without any provocation, as a Hindu I'm offended.
You should read this....
FORUM RULES AND REGULATIONS
@Irfan Baloch @waz @Chak Bamu @Jungibaaz
 
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