Canada To Buy 10 Boeing F/A-18E Aircraft Worth US$5.23 billion

[Gomig-21]

It's a terrible deal. There's nothing special in it and is still more expensive than India's Rafale deal.

I can't see how this is a good or even average deal, either. If this is supposedly less costly than them buying the F-35, not sure where the logic in that came from. The only thing I can see is that maybe they figured the eventual lifetime operational cost of the F-35 will be greater, whereas this F-18 -- despite it being the Super Hornet -- is an aircraft that the Canadians operate and are familiar with, albeit the A and B models and not necessarily the SH, they're not really introducing a new aircraft. But still, even with all the additional gadgets (and most of it really isn't that special) with the exception of the additional 8 F-414 engines and maybe the 100 AIM-9X block II, but that's about it. Add the rest and it shouldn't average out to each one of those 18 jets coming in at over $290 million a piece! Wow.

Well, good for Boeing. Between this deal and the Kuwaiti one, maybe this is a message to LM that the F-35 will not monopolize the export market. And with more and more of these deals, it might force LM to drop the cost of the F-35 and widen the list of potential customers to compete better.

And Boeing could put an even bigger snag into LM's plans if it brings this design to fruition, and do it quickly.

 

[Sully3]

are people blind ? it clearly states 18 aircrafts

 

[randomradio]

I can't see how this is a good or even average deal, either. If this is supposedly less costly than them buying the F-35, not sure where the logic in that came from. The only thing I can see is that maybe they figured the eventual lifetime operational cost of the F-35 will be greater, whereas this F-18 -- despite it being the Super Hornet -- is an aircraft that the Canadians operate and are familiar with, albeit the A and B models and not necessarily the SH, they're not really introducing a new aircraft. But still, even with all the additional gadgets (and most of it really isn't that special) with the exception of the additional 8 F-414 engines and maybe the 100 AIM-9X block II, but that's about it. Add the rest and it shouldn't average out to each one of those 18 jets coming in at over $290 million a piece! Wow.

Well, good for Boeing. Between this deal and the Kuwaiti one, maybe this is a message to LM that the F-35 will not monopolize the export market. And with more and more of these deals, it might force LM to drop the cost of the F-35 and widen the list of potential customers to compete better.

And Boeing could put an even bigger snag into LM's plans if it brings this design to fruition, and do it quickly.

Qatar paid the same price for their Rafales and they also got hundreds of SCALPs and Meteors.

Anyway, I think the Canadians are paying so much in order to use as a bargaining chip in the Boeing-Bombardier dispute.
http://www.cbc.ca/news/politics/boeing-bombardier-trade-dispute-1.4274739

So politics is the reason for this insane price.

 

[Penguin]

It's a terrible deal. There's nothing special in it and is still more expensive than India's Rafale deal.

Comparing these deals = apples v oranges

are people blind ? it clearly states 18 aircrafts

Issue resolved already. OP here state 10 (incorrectly). DSCA announcement clearely 18, which implies sloppy reporting. See posts #10 and #11

 

[randomradio]

Comparing these deals = apples v oranges

Agreed. But I find the Qatari and Kuwaiti deals comparable to the Canadian deal.

http://www.dsca.mil/major-arms-sales/government-kuwait-fa-18ef-super-hornet-aircraft-support
All the Kuwaitis got were some HARMs and the Canadians got some new Aim-9X, probably don't exceed $100M for either.

The Qataris paid $2B for Rafale's weapons. If you remove that from the equation, then the Rafale still comes out cheaper than what Kuwait paid for their Super Hornets let alone the Canadians.

 

[Penguin]

Agreed. But I find the Qatari and Kuwaiti deals comparable to the Canadian deal.

http://www.dsca.mil/major-arms-sales/government-kuwait-fa-18ef-super-hornet-aircraft-support
All the Kuwaitis got were some HARMs and the Canadians got some new Aim-9X, probably don't exceed $100M for either.

The Qataris paid $2B for Rafale's weapons. If you remove that from the equation, then the Rafale still comes out cheaper than what Kuwait paid for their Super Hornets let alone the Canadians.

The Canadian already have a full infrastructure for CF-18.

The original CF-18 as delivered is largely identical to the F/A-18A and B models. In 2001, the Incremental Modernization Project (IMP) was initiated. The project was broken into two phases over a period of eight years and was designed to improve air-to-air and air-to-ground combat capabilities, upgrade sensors and the defensive suite, and replace the datalinks and communications systems on board the CF-18 from the old F/A-18A and F/A-18B standard to the current F/A-18C and D standard. The project is supposed to extend the life of the CF-18 until around 2017 to 2020.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/McDonnell_Douglas_CF-18_Hornet#Upgrades

The F/A-18E single-seat and F/A-18F tandem-seat variants are larger and more advanced derivatives of the F/A-18C and D Hornet. The Super Hornet is largely a new aircraft at about 20% larger, 7,000 lb (3,200 kg) heavier empty weight, and 15,000 lb (6,800 kg) heavier maximum weight than the original Hornet. The Super Hornet carries 33% more internal fuel, increasing mission range by 41% and endurance by 50% over the "Legacy" Hornet. Initially, the Super Hornet's avionics and software had a 90% commonality with that of the F/A-18C/D fleet at the time.The F/A-18E/F's radar cross-section was reduced greatly from some aspects, mainly the front and rear.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Boeing_F/A-18E/F_Super_Hornet

As interim fighter, Super Hornet will continue mostly with existing ordnance stock. Pilot transition from CF-18 to the new aicraft will take minimal effort.

 

[Gomig-21]

Qatar paid the same price for their Rafales and they also got hundreds of SCALPs and Meteors.

Anyway, I think the Canadians are paying so much in order to use as a bargaining chip in the Boeing-Bombardier dispute.
http://www.cbc.ca/news/politics/boeing-bombardier-trade-dispute-1.4274739

So politics is the reason for this insane price.

That pretty much sums it up lol. Good call, and good for Bombardier to hold its ground.

Since the Canadians operate a lot of missions with the USAF, they might've been better off with the F-35 but if they figured its cost per unit and in the long run would be higher than this Super Hornet, then it's a good call. It's also a little bit of a dig on the F-35.

Oh, and BTW, the Meteor and SCALP are not exactly inexpensive missiles. They run about $2 million per for the Meteor and over $3 million per for the SCALP which sheds a little bit of light as to the the Qatari Rafale contract.

As interim fighter, Super Hornet will continue mostly with existing ordnance stock. Pilot transition from CF-18 to the new aicraft will take minimal effort.

Local airshow a few years ago and a CF-18 was participating while celebrating the 70th anniversary of the Battle of Britain and dawned British colors. Canadian pilot was excellent and put on a great show. Notice the light and the painted canopy under the cockpit. Unique to just the Canadian F-18s.

 

[randomradio]

The Canadian already have a full infrastructure for CF-18.

The original CF-18 as delivered is largely identical to the F/A-18A and B models. In 2001, the Incremental Modernization Project (IMP) was initiated. The project was broken into two phases over a period of eight years and was designed to improve air-to-air and air-to-ground combat capabilities, upgrade sensors and the defensive suite, and replace the datalinks and communications systems on board the CF-18 from the old F/A-18A and F/A-18B standard to the current F/A-18C and D standard. The project is supposed to extend the life of the CF-18 until around 2017 to 2020.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/McDonnell_Douglas_CF-18_Hornet#Upgrades

The F/A-18E single-seat and F/A-18F tandem-seat variants are larger and more advanced derivatives of the F/A-18C and D Hornet. The Super Hornet is largely a new aircraft at about 20% larger, 7,000 lb (3,200 kg) heavier empty weight, and 15,000 lb (6,800 kg) heavier maximum weight than the original Hornet. The Super Hornet carries 33% more internal fuel, increasing mission range by 41% and endurance by 50% over the "Legacy" Hornet. Initially, the Super Hornet's avionics and software had a 90% commonality with that of the F/A-18C/D fleet at the time.The F/A-18E/F's radar cross-section was reduced greatly from some aspects, mainly the front and rear.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Boeing_F/A-18E/F_Super_Hornet

As interim fighter, Super Hornet will continue mostly with existing ordnance stock. Pilot transition from CF-18 to the new aicraft will take minimal effort.

Exactly. Which means they are paying way more than they really should be. I'm smelling an investigation in the near future.

Since the Canadians operate a lot of missions with the USAF, they might've been better off with the F-35 but if they figured its cost per unit and in the long run would be higher than this Super Hornet, then it's a good call. It's also a little bit of a dig on the F-35.

They most likely will buy the F-35. But I'm looking forward to a fair competition.

 

[Penguin]

Exactly. Which means they are paying way more than they really should be. I'm smelling an investigation in the near future.

Still comparing apples and oranges.

They most likely will buy the F-35. But I'm looking forward to a fair competition.

They remain consortium partner of the F-35, which makes it in their interest to not stray too far when it comes to aircraft purchases.

 

[randomradio]

Still comparing apples and oranges.

Why so? The differences will be way too small. Probably Golden Delicious v Red Delicious apples.

They remain consortium partner of the F-35, which makes it in their interest to not stray too far when it comes to aircraft purchases.

Yeah. That tender's gonna be a dog and pony show. We will probably see the competitors simply not bidding, like in Belgium.

 

[Penguin]

Yeah. That tender's gonna be a dog and pony show. We will probably see the competitors simply not bidding, like in Belgium.

Belgium is no F-35 consortium partner. Belgium specifically seeks long term operational support.
https://www.defensenews.com/air/2017/07/10/sweden-pulls-out-of-belgian-fighter-battle/

 

[airmarshal]

I was wrong, a good deal in-deed.

I think American weapons are always cheaper than French. Look at how many customers French have and how many do Americans have. Also the volume in which they produce their weapons systems decrease their unit cost.

 

[Khafee]

are people blind ? it clearly states 18 aircrafts

Yes 10E + 8F = 18

http://dsca.mil/major-arms-sales/government-canada-fa-18ef-super-hornet-aircraft-support

 

[Penguin]

Yes 10E + 8F = 18

http://dsca.mil/major-arms-sales/government-canada-fa-18ef-super-hornet-aircraft-support

See posts #10 and #11. Long since cleared up. It pays to read previous parts of the thread.

 

[Khafee]

See posts #10 and #11. Long since cleared up. It pays to read previous parts of the thread.

It also pays to get info from official sources, unlike def media sites, see buffoon keyboard warrior exposing himself AGAIN:

The number of aircraft under this deal is 10.

Canada ordered 98 single-seat CF-18As and 40 two-seat CF-18Bs in 1982 (total: 138), of which 20 have been lost to accidents and at least 41 retired since 1984. Currently, 73 CF-18s remain in active service.

More F/A-18E are therefor likely to be acquired as an "interim measure" fighter, though it cannot be ruled out that at some point some number of F-35As will be acquired: Canada's participation in the Joint Strike Fighter (JSF) Program began in 1997 and the country became a program partner in 2002. The Government of Canada has only stated an intention to purchase the F-35 and there is no contract to purchase any yet. There would be no cancellation fees if the government chose not to proceed, although Canadian contractors might lose F-35-related contracts as a result. In November 2016 the government contributed funding again to the F-35 development program, to maintain the country's status as a participant in the program, including access to F-35 contract work for Canadian companies.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lockheed_Martin_F-35_Lightning_II_Canadian_procurement