US clears Poland to buy HIMARS, ATACMS, ammunition worth $10 billion

[Dalit]

Hey, don't ignore my post. When will stalwart ally Pakistan receive weapons?

 

[nahtanbob]

no doubt Poland is buying huge amounts of weapons but why buy when you can produce ?

surely Poland has a god enough industrial base to build weapons they also have a good population

US is basically milking these nations and also HIMARS are in short supply right now so are the Javelins and Stingers and whole list of 155mm ammunition

Turkey is no doubt the most powerful army in NATO after US

Turkey is making EVERYTHING and I mean everything, right down to softwares and electronics to arm its military

at least all the money is staying inside Turkey with bonus coming from exports

Poland is being pretty reckless here they need to start thinking rather than reacting

guess Russia has them spooked

if you have been repeatedly subject to subjugation like the Poles it would be understandable

 

[Hellfire2006]

It will not deter Russia.

Right, Poland is bluffing here.

no doubt Poland is buying huge amounts of weapons but why buy when you can produce ?

surely Poland has a god enough industrial base to build weapons they also have a good population

US is basically milking these nations and also HIMARS are in short supply right now so are the Javelins and Stingers and whole list of 155mm ammunition

Turkey is no doubt the most powerful army in NATO after US

Turkey is making EVERYTHING and I mean everything, right down to softwares and electronics to arm its military

at least all the money is staying inside Turkey with bonus coming from exports

Poland is being pretty reckless here they need to start thinking rather than reacting

guess Russia has them spooked

I'd rate the french army over turkey. Brits are a complete joke tho. I doubt if they can even field a single combat ready division at a moment's notice.

 

[nahtanbob]

It will not deter Russia.

Polish military can deter Russia with financial support from the West
Of course if you are a fool to attack a NATO member I cannot help you there

 

[Path-Finder]

this Polish news channel is enough of an indicator of what the Poles are worried about they dont want any Russians near their territory.

 

[aziqbal]

Right, Poland is bluffing here.


I'd rate the french army over turkey. Brits are a complete joke tho. I doubt if they can even field a single combat ready division at a moment's notice.

I would rate Bangladesh army over Indian army

because vegetables dont wins wars

you need meat at some point, which would explain the 7 loses in last 7 decades

 

[925boy]

The Poles are not going to have Russians in their land. They have been scared enough times.

its war losers that believe military equipment will win the war- US lost in Afghanistan despite superior "military equipment" - Poles are already in the war with Ukraine- many experienced army soldiers from Polish army have fought and died in Ukraine, Russia has minced them in the sausage meatfest in places like Bakhmut, so the fact is that Poland isnt rich, and many of its citizens have already died- its the cannon fodder menu item for EU to send into Ukraine for its proxy war. Poland and Ukraine are gonna get minced up in Ukraine this year...we know cuz they whine publicly about the war already- no manpower means you loser war inevitably, Poland and Ukraine area both on that same bandwagon, and i wouldnt be on POlish army- why buy soo many weapons when Poland is already in NATO? their insecurity is what will make them lose, weapons cant make up for that rubbish.

 

[jhungary]

Right now it’s around 185,000. 50% of 185,000 are admin mos. Largest Mos in USMC is personal admin, infantry is #2. USMC is budget strapped. Unlike Army.

There is no way half the USMC personnel is 01. It would be close if you are talking about non-combat MOS, but still then there aren't that many non-combat MOS because those job would have filled with Fleet Marine Force and Navy Personnel

On the other hand, I would say the combat/non-combat ratio is probably match the army and most likely most NATO structure. If we look and compare the USMC command structure and NATO force structure.

On the other hand, I will say USMC probably is a smaller ground force than Turkey, but then Marine is an Air Ground task force, they would be comparable to a standalone national army.

 

[jhungary]

Turkish land forces consisting of 4 armies and 9 corps. Moreover, he probably saw the figure from wikipedia and pasted it. Detailed statistics and class/rank distributions of the land forces are published in the annual activity reports of the Ministry of National Defense and these are not confidential information. As of now, the size of the Turkish Land Forces is around 400,000, excluding the Gendarmerie General Command, which has around 200,000. The total combat land component is over 600,000, including Gendarmerie, Land Forces and amphibious commando elements. 60% of these are professional active duty personnel. Also, with reserves, this number could rise to over 800,000 within weeks even before mobilization is announced. Over the decade, the TAF has been gradually downsizing its personnel and shifting the main body of the army from compulsory military service to a fully professional army.

With the exception of the invasion of Libya, Turkish Land Forces has traditionally been one of the three armies that have consistently and strongly participated in NATO missions. Currently, It is deployed in 14 countries for UN, NATO, national security reasons and bilateral agreements, training or equipping at least 20 different armed forces.

The Turkish Land Forces' combat-readiness level is one of the high armed organizations in the world and are already actively fighting. On the other hand, even a casual defense enthusiast should know the difference between inventory figures and the actual number of active vehicles. Indeed, in addition to its firepower and technical capabilities, the Turkish Land Forces is an army with its own doctrines and traditions, and is one of the few military elements in NATO that can develop systems with its own military mind.

First of all, I am an Army guy, not a Marine, and we hated the Marine. That said, I am here to talk about facts and facts only.

Second of all, this would be my only post about this, because I don't want to derail the thread and turn it into a USMC vs Turkey Ground Force. So I am going to keep it brief.

USMC comprise of both Ground Element and Air Element, you can look at its force in 2 ways, from unit point of view or from MAG-TAF point of view. From the Unit point of view, USMC comprise of 4 Marine Division (5th and 6th is on disbanded and put on ready reserve) and 4 Air Wing with 7 independent operated Regimental Sized MEU.

Of those force, there are 3 Corp level Air Ground Task force (MEF) each paired with 1 Division with 1 Air Wing and 1 Supporting unit + 3 brigade of other force (including intelligence, fleet marine and so on) Each MEF have also have a fleet component attached to it (eg the LHD, LHA, LPD, Naval Service ship) manned by the Navy, but operationally, those asset would be under Marine Command in war, i mean, it's hard to put the Marine in battle when they are all bunched on the 10 mini aircraft carrier if they were under Navy Control.

Which mean if we were to talk about Marine Firepower, all those are going to put into calculation, now setting aside the training and quality of troop, let's say the performance level is one to one. If we pitch the following and we should have result like this

USMC vs Turkey Ground Force (Only) - USMC is going to win, because the Air Ground component, I mean how do you fight the USMC loaded with Naval Ship and F-35 if Turkey do not have Air Asset within Ground Force control? This is also the basis of my point

USMC (Ground Force only, ie the 4 Division + 7 Independent Regiment) vs Turkey Ground Force (Only) - Turkey Ground Force is going to win, because Marine is a combine armed force, it's land component is small, it's 1/3 of the entire branch.

USMC vs Turkey Armed Force (entire armed force) - highly likely Turkey is going to win, depends on whether technical parameter, I mean, it's about USMC FA-18/F-35 vs Turkey F-16 and you are talking about a bunch of LSD/LHA/LPD with their MCM/LCS escort against Turkish Navy. I mean, I don't do technical comparison, so it would be anyone guess.

And two more things I want to say.

1.) I did not copy and paste the number from Wikipedia (I do quote stuff from Wikipedia, usually not number), I used active personnel only, because reserve is a very complicated issue in the US, let alone Turkey (Which I do not know). There are 3 types of reserve in the US. Force Reserve (or Federal Reserve or Ready Reserve) is the Reserve Component attached to regular unit. Individual Reserve, is a pool of people after they were discharged by the US Armed Force and then There are Inactive Reserve, which are people who were Separated from the service for a while and not eligible for immediate call up. currently only US Army National Guard have Inactive Reserve component. The difference is the call up time, It's 0-400 Days for IRR and up to 2 years for Inactive.

The 3-reserve branch extended to all branch of the military as they are USC codified. And US military are required by USC to keep 400,000 IRR from all branches, and they are in between, they are separated by still maintain a paygrade to the Military, they are not counted as military Personnel because those on IRR are already discharged. USC does not require a set number of Inactive reserve.

Individual Ready Reserve - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

Inactive National Guard - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

Reserve components of the United States Armed Forces - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

And even I know the US military reserve system (as I was part of IRR after I was discharged due to my MOS) and it still too complicated for me to say, I wouldn't dare going into Turkey Reserve force and name their force and number to which I have only some knowledge about. That's why I only use active and ready personnel on their TO&E.

2.) I am in no way diminish anything about Turkey or other armed force when i made this or previous post, I made them due to the 3 scenario I put out above. Whether people agree to that, I will have to say that is my opinion, and we will have to agree to disagree on that. I mean of course everyone think highly about their armed force, I am not in a way to bicker or argue which one is the best, I am merely stating my opinion. which anyone may found agree to or disagree to for.

 

[Genghis khan1]

Polish military can deter Russia with financial support from the West
Of course if you are a fool to attack a NATO member I cannot help you there

If Poland is in Ukraine than it’s not NATO area . I even doubts NATO will do anything substantial if Russia throw few missiles into Poland itself.

These BlackSea countries are the buffer zone and are there to take the beating for the Western Europeans Incase of full scale Russia invasion.

Right, Poland is bluffing here.

Poland is being Pakistan 2.0 from 80s. Soon they will regret their choices.

 

[nahtanbob]

If Poland is in Ukraine than it’s not NATO area . I even doubts NATO will do anything substantial if Russia throw few missiles into Poland itself.

These BlackSea countries are the buffer zone and are there to take the beating for the Western Europeans Incase of full scale Russia invasion.


Poland is being Pakistan 2.0 from 80s. Soon they will regret their choices.

For every Pakistan there is a South Korea

 

[Hellfire2006]

I would rate Bangladesh army over Indian army

because vegetables dont wins wars

I wasn't expecting such a brilliant and well researched response ! Wow, thanks for showing your intellect, but I think we were talking about the poles and NATO here, it's a plain fact that the British army is a joke. You use your allies Logistics to sustain overseas operations and that too on a brigade level only, lol. Even Pakistani army and indian army currently have larger overseas deployments than the 6,500 brits. And yes, it's true that british army will fail to field a single fully equipped division in a moment's notice. Poland can field 2-3 divisions and Americans can literally transport an entire airbone corps anywhere in the world.

UK Army no longer ‘top tier fighting force’, warns US general

A senior US General has issued a major wake up call to British Defence Secretary, Ben Wallace telling the United Kingdom that the British Army is 'no longer' a top tier global fighting force, spelli

www.defenceconnect.com.au

• The British Armed Forces would run out of ammunition “in a few days” if called upon to fight.
• The Royal Air Force lacks the ability to defend its skies against the level of missile and drone strikes that Ukraine is enduring.
• It would take five to 10 years for the Army to be able to field a warfighting division of some 25,000 to 30,000 troops backed by the required tanks, artillery and helicopters.
• Thirty per cent of the UK’s forces on high readiness are reservists who are unable to mobilise within NATO timelines.
• The majority of the Army’s fleet of armoured vehicles, including tanks, was built between 30 to 60 years ago and full replacements are not due for years.

you need meat at some point,

Ok, so the Rajputs ,Sikhs, Jats, Gurkhas, Nagas, Assamese, Tamils, Malyalees, paharis, Marathis don't eat meat ? Lol. Your IQ is so low even a 5 yr old can put you to shame. Do some research !! 70% Indians eat meat !

which would explain the 7 loses in last 7 decades

You're showing Side effects of cheap afghan weed. Which 7 losses are you talking about ?

 

[Genghis khan1]

For every Pakistan there is a South Korea

Doesn’t make sense but whatever.

 

[nahtanbob]

Doesn’t make sense but whatever.

Poland can become a South Korea

 

[dBSPL]

First of all, I am an Army guy, not a Marine, and we hated the Marine. That said, I am here to talk about facts and facts only.

Second of all, this would be my only post about this, because I don't want to derail the thread and turn it into a USMC vs Turkey Ground Force. So I am going to keep it brief.

USMC comprise of both Ground Element and Air Element, you can look at its force in 2 ways, from unit point of view or from MAG-TAF point of view. From the Unit point of view, USMC comprise of 4 Marine Division (5th and 6th is on disbanded and put on ready reserve) and 4 Air Wing with 7 independent operated Regimental Sized MEU.

Of those force, there are 3 Corp level Air Ground Task force (MEF) each paired with 1 Division with 1 Air Wing and 1 Supporting unit + 3 brigade of other force (including intelligence, fleet marine and so on) Each MEF have also have a fleet component attached to it (eg the LHD, LHA, LPD, Naval Service ship) manned by the Navy, but operationally, those asset would be under Marine Command in war, i mean, it's hard to put the Marine in battle when they are all bunched on the 10 mini aircraft carrier if they were under Navy Control.

Which mean if we were to talk about Marine Firepower, all those are going to put into calculation, now setting aside the training and quality of troop, let's say the performance level is one to one. If we pitch the following and we should have result like this

USMC vs Turkey Ground Force (Only) - USMC is going to win, because the Air Ground component, I mean how do you fight the USMC loaded with Naval Ship and F-35 if Turkey do not have Air Asset within Ground Force control? This is also the basis of my point

USMC (Ground Force only, ie the 4 Division + 7 Independent Regiment) vs Turkey Ground Force (Only) - Turkey Ground Force is going to win, because Marine is a combine armed force, it's land component is small, it's 1/3 of the entire branch.

USMC vs Turkey Armed Force (entire armed force) - highly likely Turkey is going to win, depends on whether technical parameter, I mean, it's about USMC FA-18/F-35 vs Turkey F-16 and you are talking about a bunch of LSD/LHA/LPD with their MCM/LCS escort against Turkish Navy. I mean, I don't do technical comparison, so it would be anyone guess.

And two more things I want to say.

1.) I did not copy and paste the number from Wikipedia (I do quote stuff from Wikipedia, usually not number), I used active personnel only, because reserve is a very complicated issue in the US, let alone Turkey (Which I do not know). There are 3 types of reserve in the US. Force Reserve (or Federal Reserve or Ready Reserve) is the Reserve Component attached to regular unit. Individual Reserve, is a pool of people after they were discharged by the US Armed Force and then There are Inactive Reserve, which are people who were Separated from the service for a while and not eligible for immediate call up. currently only US Army National Guard have Inactive Reserve component. The difference is the call up time, It's 0-400 Days for IRR and up to 2 years for Inactive.

The 3-reserve branch extended to all branch of the military as they are USC codified. And US military are required by USC to keep 400,000 IRR from all branches, and they are in between, they are separated by still maintain a paygrade to the Military, they are not counted as military Personnel because those on IRR are already discharged. USC does not require a set number of Inactive reserve.

Individual Ready Reserve - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

Inactive National Guard - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

Reserve components of the United States Armed Forces - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

And even I know the US military reserve system (as I was part of IRR after I was discharged due to my MOS) and it still too complicated for me to say, I wouldn't dare going into Turkey Reserve force and name their force and number to which I have only some knowledge about. That's why I only use active and ready personnel on their TO&E.

2.) I am in no way diminish anything about Turkey or other armed force when i made this or previous post, I made them due to the 3 scenario I put out above. Whether people agree to that, I will have to say that is my opinion, and we will have to agree to disagree on that. I mean of course everyone think highly about their armed force, I am not in a way to bicker or argue which one is the best, I am merely stating my opinion. which anyone may found agree to or disagree to for.

I did not make a comparison, because comparing the USMC with the Turkish ground forces, is like a comparing apples and oranges. I only corrected some extremely erroneous information you provided. I did not imply anything else. You obviously made an assessment based on really weak and inaccurate information. I can provide you with documents and official reports, not hearsay, and I can translate some documents if you wish. However, we are in a state of mobilization due to the disaster in our country, each and every citizen is trying to take part in aid campaigns or charity organizations. If you want to discuss this, and tag me at a more appropriate time, I can contribute as much as I can.