What's new

Can Israel Build a Fighter Jet?

DavidSling

SENIOR MEMBER
Joined
Oct 25, 2013
Messages
4,826
Reaction score
0
Country
Israel
Location
Israel
Release date31.08.2016

In the 1970’s, the Israeli Aerial Industries developed the “Lavi”, an advanced Israeli fighter jet. Economic and political considerations caused the program to stay on paper, but one can still find some systems and ideas in the IAF today, that originated from the “Lavi” program. Maj. Gen. (Res.) David Ivry, former IAF Commander, tells us about the jet that was a technological and Zionist ideal
Tal Giladi
The Israeli Aerial Industries aspired to develop an Israeli fighter jet, with the first step being the improvement of the "Mirage" and later production of the "Kfir", which gave it the confidence to take the first step in the development of a fighter jet.

In the mid-seventies, the Israeli Aerial Industries attempted to cooperate with a number of countries in the development of the "Aryeh", a dual-engine fighter, an attempt which proved unsuccessful. In the meantime, the IAF was in the midst of developing a long-range program focused on the acquisition of a fighter jet to replace the F-4 "Phantom" and the A-4 "Skyhawk".

"We held a discussion in which we marked the upgrading of the ‘Kfir' or the acquisition of the F-18 "Hornet" as our best options, but to our surprise, IAI personnel were also invited to the same discussion", shared Maj. Gen. (Res.) David Ivry. "In the discussion, the Industries presented advanced programs for a fighter jet called ‘Layout 33' that later became the ‘Lavi'".

68796.jpg

Archive Photo

"A stronger Engine"
While the IAI labored over a light aircraft with limited carry ability, the IAF requested a significant change. "We examined ‘Layout 33' and concluded that it was too light for our needs. At the time, I was busy with the preparations for the attack of the Iraqi Nuclear Reactor (Operation ‘Opera', June 1981) and one of the things that I had noticed was that our aircraft didn't have enough fuel to perform long-distance flights. The solution we arrived at was a larger jet with a stronger engine", remembered Maj. Gen. (Res.) Ivry. The Prime Minister, Menachem Begin, sided with the IAF's operational demand. This demand, we now know, was the beginning of the end of the "Lavi" project.

71431.jpg

Archive Photo

Controversial Aviation
The atmosphere in IDF HQ, was less than sympathetic toward the project and sided with its cancellation and use of the American funds for different developments. But the "Lavi" was no longer an idea:, three prototypes had been built and three more were in production. Maj. Gen. (Res.) Ivry had already flown one of the prototypes and all of the tests run on the project were successful. "The jet was very good. It had many avionic systems that are considered standard today, but were the first in the world back then, such as alert radar that gave you an all-around view, HUD and many others".

On August 30, 1987, the government voted on the cancellation or continuation of the project as a result of a demand for additional funds. 11 out of 12 votes called for the cancellation of the project. "I was against closing the project. One of my largest challenges were my conversations with the late Yitzhak Rabin, when he was Minister of Defense, I told him that maybe it would be better for me to step down from my position as Director General of the Ministry of Defense, because as someone who was in favor of the ‘Lavi' - I now had to close it", Ivry continued.

68797.jpg

Archive Photo

Not for Nothing
The cancellation of the "Lavi" project wasn't the end of the jet. The tremendous financial investment in the project resulted in dozens of professional laboratories and development and computer systems.

Maj. Gen. (Res.) Ivry: "It was and still is one of the Israeli Security Industries' most tremendous achievements, despite its cancellation. The ‘Lavi's contribution as an avionic weapons system were later understood and integrated into the third and fourth generation fighters".

http://www.iaf.org.il/4450-46945-en/IAF.aspx

@Penguin @500 @Natan @Archdemon @salarsikander @GBU-28 @F-15I @mike2000 is back @Blue Marlin @Mountain Jew
 
. . .
@DavidSling Of Course they can but they probably will not as financial backup is not there (Israel still can if needed) but to fund a project like F-35 or F 22 etc for Current Israeli Air Force requirements.

PS: Lavi was a beautiful Aircraft & probably proved itself formidable if Israel went ahead with project & then probably we would haven't seen F16 as a way we see it now.
 
.
Great achievement for a small state with even smaller population back then. Lavi contributions to Israel's military industries still seen today
LOL. If you remove the ultra orthodox people who have exempted themselves for military service then most citizen of this state are highly skilled. In fact, their skill is being used by west, Only a handful of them came and look how they transformed an entire industry into Hi-Tech one
 
.
indeed. It would have been a formidable fighter. We had mockup models in the wind tunnels at atlas as it was going to be used locally by SAAF.
 
.
LOL. If you remove the ultra orthodox people who have exempted themselves for military service then most citizen of this state are highly skilled. In fact, their skill is being used by west, Only a handful of them came and look how they transformed an entire industry into Hi-Tech one
Slowly, more ultra orthodox, "haredim", join the ranks of their brothers in uniform.
it's a slow progress but an important one
 
.
Why didn't the Israeli Air Force induct the F-22 I mean you have F-16's and F-15 eagles, what circumstances led to you guys not having the F-22 Raptor specially with such a friendly relations you have with the US, a squadron of those would certainly have made your air force invincible if it is not already.

I don't think Israel would ever feel the need to possibly develop their own jet, unless for some bizarre reason your relations with the US worsens which is impossible.
 
. .
LOL. If you remove the ultra orthodox people who have exempted themselves for military service then most citizen of this state are highly skilled. In fact, their skill is being used by west, Only a handful of them came and look how they transformed an entire industry into Hi-Tech one

Ultra orthodox Jews are our equivalent of Talibans...!
 
.
Let me rephrase the question from 'Can Israel Build a Fighter Jet?' to 'Why would Israel be unable to build a fighter jet'?

I can think of 2 reasons: lack of funding, political/foreign support damage (see also Japan F2). Maybe a third couild be jet engine design (in the past, since 1950, Israel has always imported jet engines from France (for CM-170 trainer), UK (for Mystere, Ouragan) and US (for Kfir and, more recently, for M-346 trainer), at least according to SIPRI.


Let me also add a question, namely "Why would Israel need to build a fighter jet?"
 
Last edited:
.
Let me rephrase the question from 'Can Israel Build a Fighter Jet?' to 'Why would Israel be unable to build a fighter jet'? I can think of 2 reasons: lack of funding, political/foreign support damage (see also Japan F2), maybe a third couild be jet engine design.

Let me also add a question, namely "Why would Israel need to build a fighter jet?"
Next air superiority aircraft for Israel will be? currently Israel is using old F15's, and F35 intend to replace the olding F16's
 
.
USA giving them very cheap....that they can't produce...and facilities to modify them as they wish ......then why they bother to ......
 
.
Next air superiority aircraft for Israel will be? currently Israel is using old F15's, and F35 intend to replace the olding F16's
And why would that next air superiority aircraft have to be an Israeli designed and build aircraft? Why even a manned aircraft?

Boeing F/A-XX. concept
Boeing_F-A-XX_2013.jpeg


15913987892_d614d08c76_b.jpg


Lockheed F-X concept
15292376584_37628977d0_b.jpg

lm-fighter-concept-6thgen.jpg


Northrop sixth generation fighter teaser
3100FDD900000578-0-image-a-11_1454963671659.jpg


Japanese ATD-X (Shinshin)
shinshin_atdx.jpg
 
Last edited:
. .

Pakistan Affairs Latest Posts

Country Latest Posts

Back
Top Bottom