Can India & Pakistan come out of the spiral of mutual destruction ?

[Joe Shearer]

what were you doing for your defense? giving out lessons to your top guns on how to drink that fantashtik cup of tea as a pow or teaching your sainkis how to hold their ears while kneeling down? either way, looks like you trained them well!

Wouldn't you like to know?

 

[Wood]

I think from Pakistani pov, it's the end of their problem with India. They don't want further expansion, as they don't have much appetite to turn millions of unwanted Gangetics into Pakistani citizens.

Otoh, India is already sore that the British did not leave the colonial territory intact. Their interest stretches beyond Kashmir, and combined with superpower and akhand bharat delusions, even if Pakistan recognized the current loc as border India will continue to try to destabilize and balkanize Pakistan.

Converting LOC to International border is seen as a win in India. Even conservatives support this idea.

Religious hawks in BJP want to decrease the Muslim population count, not increase it. Territorial expansion is not a popular idea among the Indian population.

I say that Kashmir problem is a symptom and not a root cause because Hindu Muslim distrust has been in the subcontinent forever.

 

[GumNaam]

Wouldn't you like to know?

I'm pretty sure I already know...

 

[Maula Jatt]

Converting LOC to International border is seen as a win in India. Even conservatives support this idea.

Religious hawks in BJP want to decrease the Muslim population count, not increase it. Territorial expansion is not a popular idea among the Indian population.

I say that Kashmir problem is a symptom and not a root cause because Hindu Muslim distrust has been in the subcontinent forever.

only one solution to this problem

Do a baba Farid move on everyone

 

[Joe Shearer]

I'm pretty sure I already know...

I'm pretty sure you don't. Ask your elders and betters.

 

[nahtanbob]

seeing the destruction in Europe and the never ending animosity between our 2 countries, I was wondering whether the lessons of Europe can result in our 2 countries overcoming fixed positions, like Pakistan's kashmir only policy , and aim for normal relations between us ?
Why I mention kashmir is because India has no such single condition for normalcy.
We are just wasting the resources of 2 impoverished countries on a arms race .

Peace depends on multitude of factors. It will happen sometime in the next 20-50 years

1. Pakistan is smaller and economically weaker. If Pakistan does not get help from outside powers (USA or China) it is game over for Pakistan. You already see it with Imran Khan annual begging bowls. How long can the Pakistani elite do it ? It is anyone's guess.

2. How fast does the Indian economy hit $10-15-20 trillion ? Right now it is 10-20-30 years away. At that point Pakistan cannot expect significant help from China or USA or Saudi Arabia

3. Does India balkanize ? Can it happen ? When will it happen. I do not see it happening 100% for the next 20 years. Beyond that no one has a crystal ball.

4. Emergence of pan-Muslim bloc (Turkey, Iran, Afghanistan, Central Asia) can help Pakistan. Given the divisions and dynamics I see no movement here for 20+ years. There is a good reason it will never happen

5. If India sees a bigger existential threat from outside power China or USA. The only issue here for now is that USA and China want to do business with India on their terms. They have no interest in destroying India

 

[GumNaam]

Ah, you have re-discovered the rectum!

As for my contribution, when I was 48 I was working for defence. Any plans on your side to work for your country?

If Pakistan didn't need your support at that difficult time, what makes you think she needs you around making loud, war-like noises?

Have you served, btw? Or are you covering a guilty feeling?

uhm, it wasn't Pakistan that was having a difficult time...

 

[Joe Shearer]

Unless Indians raise a generation that doesn't think that Pakistan is or used to be their land, then no.

One of the ways in which liberals in India let down the country was by not pushing for a vigorous system of primary education, with some basic correction of the toxic stuff being spread by the RSS built in. This point is one of those that we should have corrected, in the 67 years that there was a possibility of doing so.

We - and the whole country, and the neighbourhood - are suffering for it, and paying the price for it now.

Kashmir and other disputes are just symptoms of a deeper problem.

 

[nahtanbob]

One of the ways in which liberals in India let down the country was by not pushing for a vigorous system of primary education, with some basic correction of the toxic stuff being spread by the RSS built in. This point is one of those that we should have corrected, in the 67 years that there was a possibility of doing so.

primary education for the masses is an issue in India. How does that explain middle class support for the BJP ?

 

[Joe Shearer]

I too don't want to see Lahore or Sialkot or even Amritsar and Delhi destroyed, a full blown war between India and Pakistan will be WW2 level destruction.

It won't; we are too incompetent for that, as both Agha Amin and SQ8 have frequently pointed out.

The thing is, it is not our incompetent generals, or the knavish politicians who die; it is the farmers' sons.

I bitterly resent even a single death, no matter whose it. Resent, not mourn.

 

[PAKISTANFOREVER]

Peace depends on multitude of factors. It will happen sometime in the next 20-50 years

1. Pakistan is smaller and economically weaker. If Pakistan does not get help from outside powers (USA or China) it is game over for Pakistan. You already see it with Imran Khan annual begging bowls. How long can the Pakistani elite do it ? It is anyone's guess.

2. How fast does the Indian economy hit $10-15-20 trillion ? Right now it is 10-20-30 years away. At that point Pakistan cannot expect significant help from China or USA or Saudi Arabia

3. Does India balkanize ? Can it happen ? When will it happen. I do not see it happening 100% for the next 20 years. Beyond that no one has a crystal ball.

4. Emergence of pan-Muslim bloc (Turkey, Iran, Afghanistan, Central Asia) can help Pakistan. Given the divisions and dynamics I see no movement here for 20+ years. There is a good reason it will never happen

5. If India sees a bigger existential threat from outside power China or USA. The only issue here for now is that USA and China want to do business with India on their terms. They have no interest in destroying India

india is the biggest beggar and receiver of american aid in the world............:

India top recipient of US economic aid - Times of India

US News: India has been identified as the largest recipient of U.S economic assistance over a 66-year period in inflation-adjusted dollars although Washington'

m.timesofindia.com

 

[Joe Shearer]

uhm, it wasn't Pakistan that was having a difficult time...

Yes, from 6,000 kms away. Well done, hero.

primary education for the masses is an issue in India. How does that explain middle class support for the BJP ?

It does not.

india is the biggest beggar and receiver of american aid in the world............:

India top recipient of US economic aid - Times of India

US News: India has been identified as the largest recipient of U.S economic assistance over a 66-year period in inflation-adjusted dollars although Washington'

m.timesofindia.com

Call the Fire Brigade!

Something's burning!

 

[Wood]

One of the ways in which liberals in India let down the country was by not pushing for a vigorous system of primary education, with some basic correction of the toxic stuff being spread by the RSS built in. This point is one of those that we should have corrected, in the 67 years that there was a possibility of doing so.

We - and the whole country, and the neighbourhood - are suffering for it, and paying the price for it now.

Education is not the cure for extreme nationalism and religiosity that India is plagued with. Plenty of internet extremists in India are well educated.

I see that the media propaganda that India is great and grass root level ideological training that religious scriptures are real history is the main reason. For what it is worth, India is not the only country with such problems today.

 

[PAKISTANFOREVER]

Yes, from 6,000 kms away. Well done, hero.


It does not.


Call the Fire Brigade!
View attachment 820863

Something's burning!

Probably your mama's behind...........

 

[.King.]

Probably your mama's behind...........

Why are you so obsessed with other peoples mothers? Mommy issues or something?