Can IAF afford all these planned modernisations ?

[shuttler]

a literate person will know that the highest contributor, FGFA will not enter service before 2022.

a literate person will also know that delay in rafale will mean full induction by 2025.

A literate person will also know that stocking up on engines and spares parts doesn't come under fleet modernization.

But what can one do when an illiterate chinese troll decides to vent out his frustration on only because an indian once did some unspeakable things to his posterior in the dark? Nothing

by the time of all those 15-20-year delayed induction which are already conservative measures in view of the customary delays in all indian projects, all the models will be relegated to 1-2 generations below the most advanced ones. What do you still need those 4-5th gen fighters for while people are testing flying their 6th/7th gens.

second, in 10 to 20 years time the rupees will be @100-150 to the dollar at current trend. so another huge currency devaluation provision for back-up engines and spare parts. Those are hardly any welcoming signs

If you know what time value of money is then the above estimation of $16 billion are at present day value!

 

[Shadow_Hunter]

by the time of all those 15-20-year delayed induction which are already conservative measures in view of the customary delays in all indian projects, all the models will be relegated to 1-2 generations below the most advanced ones. What do you still need those 4-5th gen fighters for while people are testing flying their 6th/7th gens.

second, in 10=20 years time the rupees will be @100-150 to the dollar at current trend. so another huge currency devaluation provision for back-up engines and spare parts. Those are hardly any welcoming signs

If you know what price value of money is then the above estimation of $16 billion are at present day value!

i really have so much points to write against this post, but i just realized that you aren't worth my time. I don't talk to people with an IQ of less than 60.

 

[shuttler]

i really have so much points to write against this post, but i just realized that you aren't worth my time. I don't talk to people with an IQ of less than 60.

you are asking for retreat and surrendering. Granted and chill!

 

[anant_s]

The author clearly understands that and takes it into account. He is asking whether IAF can afford to pay 100 billion dollars over the next 10-15 years, for purchases alone.

USD 100 billion over 10-15 years works out to approx 8-12 Billion USD average (taking inflation into account)which shouldn't be that much of a burden. We must also account for the lost time in 1990 and early 2000s where very little was/could be spent owing to the state of economy.
Secondly considering re-investment of 30% of the amount back in India and even limited indigenization, the cost would further reduce to about 60-70 billion.
I suppose this is a cost we should not shy away from paying.

 

[Shadow_Hunter]

you are asking for retreat and surrendering. Granted and chill!

Retreat from what? An internet fight?

Yes, the age of my brain is not 6 years, i derive no fun out of humiliating strangers on the internet for no particular reason. Call me old fashioned, but i simply have more things to do rather than talking to losers whose posterior was forcibly invaded by one of my countrymen.

 

[shuttler]

Retreat from what? An internet fight?

Yes, the age of my brain is not 6 years, i derive no fun out of humiliating strangers on the internet for no particular reason. Call me old fashioned, but i simply have more things to do rather than talking to losers whose posterior was forcibly invaded by one of my countrymen.

you have no points to add but to retreat to off topic diatribes

 

[SPFG]

you are asking for retreat and surrendering. Granted and chill!

Have you jokers finished developing the WS 10B so that it can go to full afterburner in 10 seconds , not 2 minutes? Is your production quality satisfactory or the J10B plan will continue to face "operational hindrances"? Is the ESA hybrid you are planning on using even upto Russian last gen standards?

If NO GTFO.

 

[Shadow_Hunter]

you have no points to add but to retreat to off topic diatribes

ok...............

 

[shuttler]

Have you jokers finished developing the WS 10B so that it can go to full afterburner in 10 seconds , not 2 minutes? Is your production quality satisfactory or the J10B plan will continue to face "operational hindrances"? Is the ESA hybrid you are planning on using even upto Russian last gen standards?

If NO GTFO.

first this thread is about IAF's modernisation and its affordability
second, I think we are doing just fine. I havent been closely updated with the development of WS-10B apart from seeing a few pics on forums in which J-10 or variants have installed what look like WS-10Bs. In these regards, some more knowlegeable members may shed lights on for you. In any case I understand WS-10B is very much alive than the ill-fated kaveri! We are very happy to distance ourselves from reliance on Russian tech unlike india!

 

[SPFG]

first this thread is about IAF's modernisation and its affordability
second, I think we are doing just fine. I havent been closely updated with the development of WS-10B apart from seeing a few pics on forums in which J-10 or variants have installed what look like WS-10Bs. In these regards, some more knowlegeable members may shed lights on for you. In any case I understand WS-10B is very much alive than the ill-fated kaveri! We are very happy to distance ourselves from reliance on Russian tech unlike india!

I went to the chinese defence forum, the production on J10B as been differed on quality issues of WS 10B as of april 2013. A 123 KN ripoff of AL 31FN. The Kaveri is a technology demonstrator of 81kn thrust, about same as SNECMA M88. Problem is we need a 120+ KN engine that works and not explodes on a test flight like J10B.

 

[ziaulislam]

i think the real advantage china is that it spending 100 billion dollars is just around 1% of its GDP meaning its not scarifying any thing else for defence. nearly all of its defence products are home grown, meaning if the same equipment brought outside it would cost 4X times more..
so india buying 50 billion worth weapons , china will gain same capablity with mere 10 billlion investment
china will over take the USA econmy soon and with R&D going on they might even take the lead in percapita econmy by 2030
india growth is dropping rapidly to forecast of less than 5 however china is still maintaing a huge growth rate, it may have fallen form the mid 2000s but its still huge..i mean 7.5% is still very high its more than what india achieved during its "prime time"

if china maintain this speed just for another 4 years it will surpass USA(IMF forcasts china to superpass USA by end of 2016
imagine if they maintain that speed for another decade by 2025 they might become half of the world econmy.
nearly evry anaylst beleive that china will maintain this growth rate for atleast till 2020 after that it will drop to around 5% with econmy moving towards maturation.
but the fact the china consumption portion of GDP is mere 12% its obvious that the speed may be maintained till 2030 driven by huge consumption market.
the only long term risk (beyond 2040)) might be there old population and one child policybut decreasing in labour force requirement and relaxing in one child policy has made those fears disappear
the only deficiency left is there R&D field and china has now showing their might in that field too
how knows ny 2030 they might be leading the world in every field

 

[janon]

...
i mean 7.5% is still very high its more than what india achieved during its "prime time"
...

That's not true. India grew at 8.5% for several years.

 

[surya kiran]

Yours numbers are plain wrong(mann ja yaar)

1)last year there was actually shrinkage of defence budget if u adjust it with inflation thats why mmrca was put off as govt dosen't want to spend........the contract negotiation is bullshit story,u don't need 2 years for that

Have you negotiated any contract or been part of any negotiation contract with the government? I have and 2 years is nothing for a contract this size.

2)growth forecast for this year is 4.8 % and ask anyone it will remain same for atleast 2-3 years
He said end of the decade. Which means 7 years from now.

3)procurement will be delayed.........look as pakfa,we have already read reports that russia has jacked up prices and the development contract of 5.5 billion won't be signed this year.Actually russia is moving ahead of program but india is not sparing any money as they are going to induct their version in 2016 only

Again, Indian prototype is a customisation of the PakFa. Not a PakFa. I tried explaining to you that, customisation of a new plane takes time. It can take more than 5 years, if things need to be tweaked. It has nothing to do with money. If money were the only criteria, the F-35 would be operation with all the countries and the J-20 would be in service.
4)double digit increase in defence budget is a dream now when one kg of onion costs like 60-80 rupees and govt is bound to Not increase it

5)What i am saying is totally correct as we still haven't signed the mmrca and we are 2 years late already
Nope, all that you do is keep going off topic when somebody points out you are mistaken or tried explaining since you have no understanding of how development, procurement and induction happens.

6)china right now has a defence budget of 150+ billion so u are saying we will start spending like china in 6-7 years??
There will still be no comparison, because, 7 years from now, China's budget will be even larger.

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[Nexus]

Yes as i think because Time-Distance is matters

 

[sardar1987]

Replies in bold

I AHVE EXPLAINED U SO MANY TIMES THAT

1)Due to the depleting squadrons we must induct fast and leave all these whims and fancies

2)mmrca is already too late for this govt as this is election year and govt is unlikely to sanction it...........if it does well and good

3(there is no guarantee that next govt will support this contract,who knows?

4)And i never compared ous with china

5)Do u read newspaper,if yes then my prediction of economy is perfectly fine and growth rate of 8% days are certainly over.Just ask anyone on this

6)This year alone we have cad(current account deficit) of 70 billion plus,who will pay for that and expect the defence budget to remain unchanged??

7)I reiterate that time taken in mmrca has nothing to do with complexity of subject but the amount of money to be spent

8)I am sceptical for timeframe because

a)look at scorpenes
b)project 75i
c)lca
d)kolkata class(i knoe due to barak 8 but still damn slow production)

Looking at the history i don't think we are gonna be in any hurry to speed up things