Can IAF afford all these planned modernisations ?

[sardar1987]

I think if you look at India's mid to long term economic growth rates there is little issue wrt impending deals and their affordability- no issues whatsoever. By the end of this decade India should see a return to 7-8% economic growth and a return to double digit year-year percentage increases as India has witnessed in the past 5 years.


I don't know how anyone can be questioning the IAF's procurements at this point- things look just fine.



Looking foreward to the AH-64E and CH-47F deals being signed this fiscal.

By 2020-22 India should be spending $150-200BN a year on defence.

Yours numbers are plain wrong(mann ja yaar)

1)last year there was actually shrinkage of defence budget if u adjust it with inflation thats why mmrca was put off as govt dosen't want to spend........the contract negotiation is bullshit story,u don't need 2 years for that

2)growth forecast for this year is 4.8 % and ask anyone it will remain same for atleast 2-3 years

3)procurement will be delayed.........look as pakfa,we have already read reports that russia has jacked up prices and the development contract of 5.5 billion won't be signed this year.Actually russia is moving ahead of program but india is not sparing any money as they are going to induct their version in 2016 only

4)double digit increase in defence budget is a dream now when one kg of onion costs like 60-80 rupees and govt is bound to Not increase it

5)What i am saying is totally correct as we still haven't signed the mmrca and we are 2 years late already

6)china right now has a defence budget of 150+ billion so u are saying we will start spending like china in 6-7 years??

veere india di waj gayi aa es time

 

[Echo_419]

I think if you look at India's mid to long term economic growth rates there is little issue wrt impending deals and their affordability- no issues whatsoever. By the end of this decade India should see a return to 7-8% economic growth and a return to double digit year-year percentage increases as India has witnessed in the past 5 years.

I don't know how anyone can be questioning the IAF's procurements at this point- things look just fine.





Looking foreward to the AH-64E and CH-47F deals being signed this fiscal.

By 2020-22 India should be spending $150-200BN a year on defence.

It all depend of the Govt
If a good one comes in then we can return to good def budget if not well you know what might happen

 

[Anurag Rathore]

I think the delivery will be delayed and there will be hardly any more room for big ticket new orders other than the existings

Its not poor bangladesh
so what we want we can get it anytime

 

[Enemy]

Its not poor bangladesh
so what we want we can get it anytime

Are you a professional?

 

[TopCat]

Its not poor bangladesh
so what we want we can get it anytime

You can get that much only with the expense of latrine.

Now the big question.... Is the latrine important at all??? Shameless

 

[帅的一匹]

You can get that much only with the expense of latrine.

Now the big question.... Is the latrine important at all??? Shameless

Ignore the troll

 

[janon]

Ignore the troll

Which one?

 

[The_Sidewinder]

Yeah, we can efford it. And Mr. Bangladeshi please stop sending your illegal immigrants accross boarder. They are the cheapest labourers available in India.

 

[帅的一匹]

Yeah, we can efford it. And Mr. Bangladeshi please stop sending your illegal immigrants accross boarder. They are the cheapest labourers available in India.

You can afford it, but in a tough way.

 

[janon]

You can afford it, but in a tough way.

Well, spending hard earned money is never easy.

Everybody here is taking the title of the thread at face value and making it a binary discussion, a "yes we can" or "no you can't".

How about discussing the larger point, instead of a simple yes or no?

IMO, this is where we are feeling the pain of not indigenizing arms manufacture. If we had been making a lot of things in-house, the fall in the value of the rupee would not have affected defence procurements at all, since we would only need to spend rupees, not dollars. And in that case, a lot of forex would have been available for purchasing things we cannot make by ourselves, like Rafales or P-8Is.

China started at the same level as us two decades back, but they prudently indigenized a lot of their arms purchases. I don't know why we didn't "look east" and learn from them.

Electronic goods is another sector in which we really should not be importing so much. Hopefully both these will be rejuvenated soon. Better late than never.

 

[AADHAAR]

You can afford it, but in a tough way.

No need to do it tough way.

India only spends 2% of gdp on defence and it will continue to be that way.

Even the arms imports have been only $ 3 billion per year (less than 10% of defence budget).

India defence strategy has to been to get the largest bang for the buck, and a good mix of foreign and indigenous will continue till indigenzation increases gradually.

China is has to either depend on Russia (like Su-30MKK / AL-31) or re-invent the wheel .. an economically costlier scenario, either way. Spending so much more than India in money terms, it has barely enough to show in effectiveness of what they have.

Beset by dogma .. china's indigenization is an economically costly affair .. and then they still have their tongues handing out for further russian arms (Su-35 etc). J-20 as of now, remains a fantasy.. just that.

 

[AADHAAR]

China started at the same level as us two decades back, but they prudently indigenized a lot of their arms purchases. I don't know why we didn't "look east" and learn from them.

China's indigenization is all claims and little proof. And yet, they were the largest arms importers between 2000-2010.

Nobody knows whether their indigenous SAMs actually hit the target or just well-painted unguided rockets which lift from the ground.

Ditto for A-to-A missiles .. "PL-10" or whatever .. but those missing even on JF-17s tells that they don't want to expose the dud internationally.

Their "tanks" sell only to those to want things "free". So, much for making a vehicle which manages to move.

All their "indigenous" warships have German propulsion systems.. luckily Eurore doesn't count them as "arms trade".

Electronic goods is another sector in which we really should not be importing so much. Hopefully both these will be rejuvenated soon. Better late than never.

They are great deal into importing from South Korean, Taiwanese and Japanese components manufactures ... and yes, assembling those, they were way to cheap.. even compared to assembling those in India. India is now increasing component imports, and assembling itself (Micromax, Karbonn et al).

Manufacturing components should come over time.. but one problem is that none of the Taiwanese are making money producing them. Its a loss making business at the current prices.

 

[janon]

China's indigenization is all claims and little proof. And yet, they were the largest arms importers between 2000-2010.

Nobody knows whether their indigenous SAMs actually hit the target or just well-painted unguided rockets which lift from the ground.

Ditto for A-to-A missiles .. "PL-10" or whatever .. but those missing even on JF-17s tells that they don't want to expose the dud internationally.

Their "tanks" sell only to those to want things "free". So, much for making a vehicle which manages to move.

All their "indigenous" warships have German propulsion systems.. luckily Eurore doesn't count them as "arms trade".



They are great deal into importing from South Korean, Taiwanese and Japanese components manufactures ... and yes, assembling those, they were way to cheap.. even compared to assembling those in India. India is now increasing component imports, and assembling itself (Micromax, Karbonn et al).

Manufacturing components should come over time.. but one problem is that none of the Taiwanese are making money producing them. Its a loss making business at the current prices.

No matter how much you downplay and deride China's accomplishments, you have to admit that they have done better than India so far, by a wide margin.

Yes they were one of the biggest military importers, but that is because they are one of the largest militaries, just like India. But check out what percentage of their hardware is produced domestically, and what percentage is purchased from abroad. And then check the same stats for India.

And coming to electronics, open any consumer goods, and see how many "made in china" labels you see, and how many "made in India" ones. Even if they are only assembling stuff (which is not true anymore, the have moved up in the value chain), that is still a lot of money spent within the country, enriching their workers. Micromax and Karbonn are not in the same league as Huawei.

Yes, Chinese products may not be as sophisticated or cutting edge as European ones. A J-10 may not be as good as a rafale. But whatever their industries churn out is not something ours can match in the near future, quantitatively or qualitatively. We have to pay hard earned money to Europeans to maintain the balance of power, and purchase stuff that are four times more expensive, with all that money going out of the country.

 

[senkakudefender]

No matter how much you downplay and deride China's accomplishments, you have to admit that they have done better than India so far, by a wide margin.

Yes they were one of the biggest military importers, but that is because they are one of the largest militaries, just like India. But check out what percentage of their hardware is produced domestically, and what percentage is purchased from abroad. And then check the same stats for India.

And coming to electronics, open any consumer goods, and see how many "made in china" labels you see, and how many "made in India" ones. Even if they are only assembling stuff (which is not true anymore, the have moved up in the value chain), that is still a lot of money spent within the country, enriching their workers. Micromax and Karbonn are not in the same league as Huawei.

Yes, Chinese products may not be as sophisticated or cutting edge as European ones. A J-10 may not be as good as a rafale. But whatever their industries churn out is not something ours can match in the near future, quantitatively or qualitatively. We have to pay hard earned money to Europeans to maintain the balance of power, and purchase stuff that are four times more expensive, with all that money going out of the country.

They steal tech, hardwork of a company and make a crap version and label it as theirs.

Proof:

SU 27

J11

 

[sardar1987]

They steal tech, hardwork of a company and make a crap version and label it as theirs.

Proof:

SU 27

J11

You are totally right but after stealing tech,now they have also started making almost everything themselves............we cannot deny that

Fact remains that drdo is not good enough for even reverse engineering forget about actual engineering