Can Bangladesh ever be a sovereign country?

[Luffy 500]

@IamBengali you have a good point. I agree that Bangladesh can never be a fully sovereign country, but very few countries in the world are, except for regional and great powers, most of whom happen to be also very large nations.

So the destiny of Bangladesh is to be a vassal state.

From 1204 to 1757, we were either a full part of Delhi Sultanate or Mughal empire, or a vassal of those two entities. There were some periods of independence, but it did not last.

From 1757 to 1947, we were either de facto or de jure part of the British empire.

From 1947 to 1971, we were a part but more like a vassal of (West) Pakistan.

From 1971 to today, during Awami rule we were a vassal of India, at other times we were relatively more independent.

For future, there is no better option for Bangladesh than to become a full on vassal of China and form military alliance with China. To remain and become a vassal of a screwed up incompetent country like India is a bad choice that no Bangladeshi will accept, because that will mean Bangladesh will remain poor and underdeveloped. And everyone looks for their personal interest and future prospect first, so I maintain, all Bangladeshi people will choose to be a vassal of China, rather than a vassal of India.

Sir I don't think u can compare the times of delhi sultante/mugal empire with current status of BD. Besides bengal did retain soverginity for most part of its islamic history. While after 75 Pres. Zia did well to retain BD's soverginity. IMHO we were indeed relatively sovergien in most matters of international relations post-75 until 1/11 and MUA-FUA took over.

Btw many small countries do practice soverginity in intl relations eg. Malaysia, vietnam, cuba etc. What u can say is that small countries have to choose sides for the sake of its own interest which doesn't mean becoming a vassal IMO. Because when u safe guard your own economic and security interest u achieve the strenght to remain sovereign. And yeah i believe BD has to choose sides to counter Indian hegemony but whether its china or a more powerful ASEAN remain to be seem.

 

[Contrarian]

BD is sovereign.

And people of BD will always fight against those who want to turn BD into an arab and pakistani boot licking country. Like the jamati's.

 

[livingdead]

bd is soveraign country.
If bd was under Indian control, they wont be so uncoperative regarding illegal migrants. We have decent level of influence but not as people here describe.

About being vassal state of china, I dont see how it is possible when you dont have any land border with them. (which pakistan has).

 

[nana41]

Bhutto himself has a feudal background from Larkana, how can he even claimed himself as socialist.

Yeh...your guess is as good as mine?

 

[Luffy 500]

bd is soveraign country.
If bd was under Indian control, they wont be so uncoperative regarding illegal migrants. We have decent level of influence but not as people here describe.

About being vassal state of china, I dont see how it is possible when you dont have any land border with them. (which pakistan has).

Are u saying that Hasina got away snatching BDs democratic electoral rights without any Indian support? GOI was every blunt and overt abt their intention to see Hasina stay in power. She literally owes her PM position to sonia and monmohan. Your post makes me think that u Indians are pretty ignorant abt S.asian countries.

 

[livingdead]

Are u saying that Hasina got away snatching BDs democratic electoral rights without any any Indian support. GOI was every blunt and overt abt their intention to see Hasina stay in power. She literally owes her PM position to sonia and monmohan. Your post makes me think that u Indians are pretty ignorant abt S.asian countries.

well, she might have won election due to indirect Indian backing, but we dont have as much influence as bd members think.
I did not deny India has influence, India has influence on every small country nearby. Just like russia and US have quite big influence on us.

 

[kalu_miah]

Sir I don't think u can compare the times of delhi sultante/mugal empire with current status of BD. Besides bengal did retain soverginity for most part of its islamic history. While after 75 Pres. Zia did well to retain BD's soverginity. IMHO we were indeed relatively sovergien in most matters of international relations post-75 until 1/11 and MUA-FUA took over.

Btw many small countries do practice soverginity in intl relations eg. Malaysia, vietnam, cuba etc. What u can say is that small countries have to choose sides for the sake of its own interest which doesn't mean becoming a vassal IMO. Because when u safe guard your own economic and security interest u achieve the strenght to remain sovereign. And yeah i believe BD has to choose sides to counter Indian hegemony but whether its china or a more powerful ASEAN remain to be seem.

Sovereignty, being allied or being a vassal are relative, matter of perception. Note how Indians starts talking about sovereignty when we bring in China in the equation. Anything that bothers India is a good indication that we are in the right track.

Small countries you mentioned are truly not sovereign. They are dependent on one or more great powers, for their economy, security etc.

Powerful ASEAN will not happen, too fragmented and it will take too long to integrate, which makes it unfeasible.

So we will have military alliance with China, just like US has with other NATO countries in EU. What we call it will depend on what is acceptable to people and what looks nice on world stage.

 

[livingdead]

Sovereignty, being allied or being a vassal are relative, matter of perception. Note how Indians starts talking about sovereignty when we bring in China in the equation. Anything that bothers India is a good indication that we are in the right track.

Small countries you mentioned are truly not sovereign. They are dependent on one or more great powers, for their economy, security etc.

Powerful ASEAN will not happen, too fragmented and it will take too long to integrate, which makes it unfeasible.

So we will have military alliance with China, just like US has with other NATO countries in EU. What we call it will depend on what is acceptable to people and what looks nice on world stage.

you are economically dependent on US and europe. They are your natural allies because as china's ally you still need US support/europe support.
Unlike pakistan you dont bring much to table(not strategic important place for west) so would not that make you bit like north korea. Till now you have maintained equidistance between west and china. That changes,(military alliance is a big thing) and their policy regarding you will change.
(I am removing India from equation completely.. even if you add it works less in your favour)

 

[Saiful Islam]

well, she might have won election due to indirect Indian backing, but we dont have as much influence as bd members think.
I did not deny India has influence, India has influence on every small country nearby. Just like russia and US have quite big influence on us.

Compare BD 10 years ago to now and tell me about political influence and influence on ground. Wait, have you ever been to BD?

 

[Luffy 500]

well, she might have won election due to indirect Indian backing, but we dont have as much influence as bd members think.
I did not deny India has influence, India has influence on every small country nearby. Just like russia and US have quite big influence on us.

A "election" where 1/2 the people lost the right to vote and 154 MPs get selected due to total lack of opposition. It was a one horse circus show marred by violence and blood shed. U call that election? I think u don't even know anything abt BD's recent political events culuminating to 5th jan "election".

Anyway even if u admit that Hasina won "election" with Indian backing itself proves my point. A puppet regime can not ensure soverginity of a country. U can't justify your above statement and call BD a sovergien state in the same breath with logical argument.

 

[livingdead]

Compare BD 10 years ago to now and tell me about political influence and influence on ground. Wait, have you ever been to BD?

I have not been to bd.

 

[kalu_miah]

bd is soveraign country.
If bd was under Indian control, they wont be so uncoperative regarding illegal migrants. We have decent level of influence but not as people here describe.

About being vassal state of china, I dont see how it is possible when you dont have any land border with them. (which pakistan has).

Hasina didi is uncooperative because it literally threatens her existence.

You don't need a common border to be a vassal, what you need is maritime projection of power, just like the US does today and have bases in faraway places. China will have that ability in 15-20 years, at least 3-5 CBGs. Besides, its not just us who will be a vassal, I think Myanmar will become one too, and that solves the problem of land border, through a land connection via Myanmar. That will also be ready in 15-20 years time.

So fasten your seat belt and be ready for the ride.

 

[livingdead]

A "election" where 1/2 the people lost the right to vote and 154 MPs get selected due to total lack of opposition. It was a one horse circus show marred by violence and blood shed. U call that election? I think u don't even know anything abt BD's recent political events culuminating to 5th jan "election".

Anyway even if u admit that Hasina won "election" with Indian backing itself proves my point. A puppet regime can not ensure soverginity of a country. U can't justify your above statement and call BD a sovergien state in the same breath with logical argument.

I dont see any tangible benefit from the backing, the backing we gave was international diplomacy. basically legitimized her 'election'. but what did we get in return.
do we have much leverage there? I seriously doubt it. Dont give example of trade because we have trade and other relation with pakistan too

Hasina didi is uncooperative because it literally threatens her existence.

You don't need a common border to be a vassal, what you need is maritime projection of power, just like the US does today and have bases in faraway places. China will have that ability in 15-20 years, at least 3-5 CBGs. Besides, its not just us who will be a vassal, I think Myanmar will become one too, and that solves the problem of land border, through a land connection via Myanmar. That will also be ready in 15-20 years time.

So fasten your seat belt and be ready for the ride.

ah... 15 to 20 years a long time. I dont think hasina will last that long. Myanmar is opening up and they are less likely to be vassal of any country once they open up.

 

[kalu_miah]

ah... 15 to 20 years a long time. I dont think hasina will last that long. Myanmar is opening up and they are less likely to be vassal of any country once they open up.

Regardless of how long it takes, we know which direction Bangladesh should be moving towards and that can be set soon even during Hasina and Awami League rule. I would like to see both Awami League and BNP get closer to China and dump India for good.

Myanmar will remain allied with China, no sane Asian country will eventually ally with a power that is soon to be departing from Asia. The only Western ally in Asia will be India, not because of a choice, but because for India there will be no other great power available to be allied to. This will happen because in 10-15 years Chinese weapons tech will surpass that of Russia and when that happens, India will no longer be able to fulfill its need of arms purchase with Russian weapons and military hardware. They will be forced to go for Western weapons/hardware and to get that you guys will have to join with the West in an alliance. So that will be the day you will have to end your wishy washy deceptive nonalignment sh!t. You think you can fool the Chinese? If you ask me, I think they already know your game.

 

[livingdead]

Regardless of how long it takes, we know which direction Bangladesh should be moving towards and that can be set soon even during Hasina and Awami League rule. I would like to see both Awami League and BNP get closer to China and dump India for good.

Myanmar will remain allied with China, no sane Asian country will eventually ally with a power that is soon to be departing from Asia. The only Western ally in Asia will be India, not because of a choice, but because for India there will be no other great power available to be allied to. This will happen because in 10-15 years Chinese weapons tech will surpass that of Russia and when that happens, India will no longer be able to fulfill its need of arms purchase with Russian weapons and military hardware. They will be forced to go for Western weapons/hardware and to get that you guys will have to join with the West in an alliance. So that will be the day you will have to end your wishy washy deceptive nonalignment sh!t. You think you can fool the Chinese? If you ask me, I think they already know your game.

I dont see any game there, you sound quite agitated. relax.
about non alignment bit, it has passed its time (cold war concept). Everybody knows how international diplomacy works, if we have to lean more towards west we will. Currently we dont need to, so we wont.
It sounds natural for us to ally with US, but things can change. Who knew we will ally with soviets and japanese will ally with USA.
Look, everybody wants to think that glorious future is awaiting them. I hope china rises fast enough for you.