Cameron's inflammatory comments against Pakistan: I meant Pakistanis are terrorists..

[ramu]

Btw, "long standing Indian claims", "wikileaks", "Ajmal Kasab and Mumbai" are irrelevant and do not even help you prove your point. The reasons why they are irrelevant have been mentioned several times and I am sure you know them.

The game has changed. We are not asked by anyone to prove anything. Pakistan is running a diplomatic offensive against London and it is now a game where Pakistan has to come clean.

Indian claims are being endorsed day in and day out. I did not mention circumstantial evidence anywhere in this thread as no evidence is an longer needed as providing evidence and dossiers is redundant now. Public perception in the west is shaping to match Indian stand point. That is a major development.

 

[SMC]

The game has changed. We are not asked by anyone to prove anything. Pakistan is running a diplomatic offensive against London and it is now a game where Pakistan has to come clean.

Indian claims are being endorsed day in and day out. I did not mention circumstantial evidence anywhere in this thread as no evidence is an longer needed as providing evidence and dossiers is redundant now. Public perception in the west is shaping to match Indian stand point. That is a major development.

Now you didn't respond to my post and went off-topic. I was talking about you asking us to do introspection. But whatever.

As far as this post goes, I have talked about this several times - even with you. So I won't go into it again as it would be a waste of time.

 

[AgNoStiC MuSliM]

Public perception in the west is shaping to match Indian stand point. That is a major development.

'Public perception' will do squat, as I pointed out before, since G2G relations will continue on 'business as usual', since at a government level it is facts on the ground and not rhetoric for public consumption that drives events.

 

[ramu]

I don't have to respond to your post as even if India had shown double standards, this is a thread on Pakistan and statements made by Cameron the British PM. India is vindicated. Let us end it here as you are unable to respond to a post that is on the topic that you conveniently side stepped.

 

[Jackdaws]

You really need to use common sense..........China and Pakistan have a great friendship, that has been tested throughout the decades. So what made you believe that China will allow Nato forces to use its land to attack Pakistan, or allow it to supply Nato forces........when there is no benefit.

Pakistan-China friendship time-tested - People's Daily Online

Futhermore China is much smarter than America, it does not want to associate itself with the War on Terror.

Err - this amazing thing that convinced the Pakistanis to let the Americans run amok in their own country - it's called "money".

 

[ramu]

'Public perception' will do squat, as I pointed out before, since G2G relations will continue on 'business as usual', since at a government level it is facts on the ground and not rhetoric for public consumption that drives events.

Public perception indeed will do squat in Pakistan but does a lot more in India, US and UK. The Prime minister of India at times has to make changes to his policy based on public demand unlike the shadow civilian regime in Pakistan.

Good to know business is as usual but official Pakistan media release said the contrary in terms of engagements at the highest level.

 

[SMC]

Just as an aside, west's public perception matters **** because probably 80% of the people there have no idea and don't care what happens outside their country.

From my experience, Indians severely overestimate anti-Pakistani perception in the west regarding Afghan war. A good number don't even think Pakistan is a major component of the war.

Well at least ramu did not say that west's public perception is influenced by india as that would be factually incorrect (he did mention it before though). The public perception is based on the war in Afghanistan - and their perception is similar to that of india because both have similar interests at that time. If afghan war wasn't happening, western people couldn't care less about indian opinion.

 

[SMC]

Public perception indeed will do squat in Pakistan but does a lot more in India, US and UK. The Prime minister of India at times has to make changes to his policy based on public demand unlike the shadow civilian regime in Pakistan.

Good to know business is as usual but official Pakistan media release said the contrary in terms of engagements at the highest level.

What effect is public perception is having in the west? They're looking to end the war, not continue it or step it up. You on the other hand are implicitly suggesting that public perception is pushing the western states to attack Pakistan.

 

[SMC]

LOL. Hell yea Einstein. Denouncing and condemning apart, what exactly has the Pakistani govt. done? Despite repeated pleas - have the Yanks stopped those drone attacks?

You ignored the part where he said Drone attacks are being done with help of Pakistan government. Additionally, ISI also provides intelligence for drone attacks.

 

[AgNoStiC MuSliM]

Public perception indeed will do squat in Pakistan but does a lot more in India, US and UK. The Prime minister of India at times has to make changes to his policy based on public demand unlike the shadow civilian regime in Pakistan.

Your assertion is negated by current events - public perception in the US at least has long been anti-PA for a long time now, as right wing blogs and articles based on spurious intelligence have been maligning Pakistan for years, yet the US continues to cooperate with Pakistan and provide military and civilian aid, and the same is true with the UK government.

 

[AgNoStiC MuSliM]

Good to know business is as usual but official Pakistan media release said the contrary in terms of engagements at the highest level.

Zardari is proceeding with his visit, the FO clarified that soon after the report in the media.

Cameron's comments are not bad enough to justify proceeding to that level of protest yet.

 

[SMC]

I don't have to respond to your post as even if India had shown double standards, this is a thread on Pakistan and statements made by Cameron the British PM. India is vindicated. Let us end it here as you are unable to respond to a post that is on the topic that you conveniently side stepped.

You side-stepped my post too. And have done so on several occasions before on other topics. Pot, kettle, black.

As far as the rest of your post goes, obviously you choose to look at it from a simplistic viewpoint and do not choose to look at other things. I mean you don't even realize that it's Cameron who's on back foot after making these comments, not Pakistan.

 

[ramu]

Your assertion is negated by current events - public perception in the US at least has long been anti-PA for a long time now, as right wing blogs and articles based on spurious intelligence have been maligning Pakistan for years, yet the US continues to cooperate with Pakistan and provide military and civilian aid, and the same is true with the UK government.

US is gaining a lot more than what it pays. Pakistan army is the hired gun and US is obliged to pay for the services. The manner with which Pakistan was dealt in the 60s as against India to the current state of affairs is truly a welcome change. If you still want to turn a blind eye, lets just agree to disagree.

 

[AgNoStiC MuSliM]

Agreed but none the less it supports my opinion. AM, till date, I have not heard one leader in Pakistan call for introspection. Even a class tenth student will introspect when asked to do better. It takes courage to look back at the actions of the security establishment in Pakistan and call a spade a spade. It cannot be a coincidence that, Indian long standing claims, Wiki leaks, Ajmal Kasab and Mumbai, David Headley and so on can all point at the elephant in th room and no one in Pakistan is willing to consider such a possibility even.

It supports your opinion with speculative arguments, whereas the point I made, about the GoP issuing the orders and the PA implementing them, is a reasonable one since that is how the process of cooperating with another State would take place.

And the GoP has called for 'introspection' when it pointed out that both the CIA and ISI, in hindsight, were both wrong in using religious extremism as a rallying cry for fighting off the Soviet occupation.

And irrational and unsubstantiated accusations (Headley, wikileaks) do not establish anything in favor of the Indian claims.

It talks lowly of the public in Pakistan who can be easily mislead with hate directed at India, US, UK and Afghanistan but are unwilling to even for a moment that the security establishments eating into the tax payers money and enjoying the first share and a lion share on aid from foreign land could be using emotions and hate as weapons to polarize a population for gain.

Nonsensical rant that has nothing to do with the issue being discussed, and quite frankly it is the hatred and prejudice ingrained into the mindset of Indians such as yourself, advocating irrational positions of 'accepting unsubstantiated allegations leveled at Pakistan' that speaks lowly of the 'Indian public'.

 

[ramu]

You side-stepped my post too. And have done so on several occasions before on other topics. Pot, kettle, black.

As far as the rest of your post goes, obviously you choose to look at it from a simplistic viewpoint and do not choose to look at other things. I mean you don't even realize that it's Cameron who's on back foot after making these comments, not Pakistan.

standard boiler plate text to point out a simplistic argument. Way too familiar with this script.