Cameron's inflammatory comments against Pakistan: I meant Pakistanis are terrorists..

[Bang Galore]

Absolutely agree.. except the 1st line. Because there could be other intellegence source/security reasons why he may choose not to divulge the info or its source.. Or may be he will.. Or maybe he'll just issue a clarification...

Much has been made of the clarification issued about how the PM meant Pakistan in general & not the Pakistani government in particular. Other than the fact that such a clarification hardly lets anyone off the hook or makes them come out smelling of roses, this is standard diplomatic fare allowing the affected party(Pakistan in this case) some kind of a face saver. The fact is that no one in the media bought that since they all chose to lead with the PM's original comments. Even Pakistan does not seem to go by the clarification since their High Commissioner issued a rejoinder to the original comments.

From an Indian point of view, this should count as a very satisfying 24 hours diplomatically. Cameron may be called a liar & a lot worse by many Pakistani members on this forum & outside but it simply does not matter. What matters is not whether he has or does not have the proof that they want to see, all that matters is a head of government of a major western country has echoed Indian views. If he did it for economic reasons, all the better. The Indian economy is only going to get more important, not less.

Any future attacks on India/Indian interests will have many more across the world who believe that Pakistan is involved. Only the absolutely cussed will believe that these statements have no tangible effect on the thinking of ordinary people in the rest of the world.

 

[amit27]

Those people were British born, raised (3 British of Pakistani origin and one British of Jamaican origin) and AFAIK introduced to extremism in Britain.

Pakistan played no role in the most significant part of their radicalization - that fault lies with Britain, its inability to track and close centers of extremist indoctrination and its socio-economic tensions allowing movement towards extremism.

The fact remains they flew to Pakistan for terror training in camps so also the blame falls in the fact that your country still maintains these facilities and people who can teach how to make bombs.

 

[AgNoStiC MuSliM]

Any future attacks on India/Indian interests will have many more across the world who believe that Pakistan is involved. Only the absolutely cussed will believe that these statements have no tangible effect on the thinking of ordinary people in the rest of the world.

Will the lies and propaganda uttered by Cameron and pushed by the media have an impact on an uninformed global public? Absolutely.

Will it result in these government backing a war by India against Pakistan or entering into a war against Pakistan with India? Likely not.

Will it result in sanctions against Pakistan? Through the UN? Not a chance at this point. Unilateral sanctions? Perhaps, but only if NATO is not still engaged in Afghanistan.

Beyond that it is nothing but a calculated move to curry Indian favor - the governments in the US and UK know the reality on the ground (otherwise we would not have 'clarifications' and 'carefully chosen words') and will do nothing that changes the current material relationship with Pakistan.

So does India have a PR victory? Absolutely. Does it amount to anything beyond that? No.

 

[karan.1970]

As seen in the above Picture - Camron is not interested in Indians but in India and Its Economy.

He made this statement to get Indians on his side and give his Economically underpowered country the much needed Indian Business.

Camron seems to be quite a clever leader, here are some of his statements in other countries.

UK is a "Junior partner" of US : During his Visit to US.

Business gained for BP in Libya.

Turkey should be allowed in EU: During his visit to Turkey

Israel has Turned gaza into a Prison camp: During his visit to Turkey

* Business gained from Turkey and Turkish support.

Pakistan must not be allowed to Export Terror : During his visit to india

* Largest British business delegation to India in History - gained Business for UK in India , BAE Hawk Deal reached.


* Now what is common about these statements is that he hasn't forgotten the British interests in any of his statements and all of them have made money for UK's shaken economy.

But what Mr clever forgot is that Pakistan is the King Maker in the WOT game - we have the key to the Exit door - its up to mr camron if he wants the door open that his troops can get out by 2015 as his second in charge Nick has been saying or he wants their Coffins to keep flying out of Kandahar.

Forst of all, Indians and India's economy are not 2 separate entities. Both are linked.

About being a King Maker, well its interesting that Pakistanis are proud to be the wild card in the biggest anti terrorist operation in the world today by the virtue of their links to the terrorists that are being hunted.

On the exit key, may be all this is the process of making another key...

 

[AgNoStiC MuSliM]

The fact remains they flew to Pakistan for terror training in camps so also the blame falls in the fact that your country still maintains these facilities and people who can teach how to make bombs.

They flew to a region that was historically lawless and largely ungoverned (something the GoP is attempting to rectify), but their indoctrination into extremism (or the seeds of extremism) happened in Britain, not Pakistan, and for that the UK is to blame.

Were the FATA not ungoverned and lawless, they would have gone to Afghanistan or Somalia, or Sudan or Yemen or some CAR, or they might have just attempted something homemade in the UK.

The problem is with the actual indoctrination into extremism, that is what needs to be prevented, because once that happens there are a million and one ways the indoctrinated extremist can act. They could have used sporting rifles or legal handguns to shoot dead a bunch of people in a shopping center for example, like Major Nadal did in the US.

On the issue of indoctrination, the problem lies in the UK ( in the cases of the 7/7 bombers), not in Pakistan. Note for example that while Pakistan has banned the Hizb-ur-Tahrir as a terrorist/extremist group, the UK has not.

 

[Bang Galore]

UK 'terror' warning angers Pakistan

As seen in the Picture - the lady (Dont know who she is) is keen to get her photo taken with the Farangi PM but Mr Farangi is looking somewhere else , maybe thinking of the strategy his Ancestors implemented through the East India company to take hold of the Indian Economy.
Time will tell bud - just sit tight

Scraping the bottom of the barrel, are we now? This is the best you could come up with?

That's the minister in attendance - Minister of State for External Affairs Preneet Kaur (Maharani Preneet Kaur is current Maharani of Patiala and wife of Maharaja Amarinder Singh of Patiala). They are posing for the journalists after she received him in Delhi.

You really need to chase down & capture some better arguments.

 

[DesiGuy]

As seen in the Picture - the lady (Dont know who she is) is keen to get her photo taken with the Farangi PM but Mr Farangi is looking somewhere else , maybe thinking of the strategy his Ancestors implemented through the East India company to take hold of the Indian Economy.

Black blood, man you are too good when it comes to entertain people.

 

[karan.1970]

The comments are significant only from the UK's perspective, in a 'geo-political sense' as you argued, in that they seek to shift Indian opinion favorably towards the UK in order that the UK may benefit economically from civilian and military business deals with India - economic ties that are even more important now for various Western nations given their struggles to come out of a global recession, and a newly elected political party that needs to deliver on the economic front in order to put some space between itself and Labor.

The comments are a calculated move (and even have wiggle room given the rather prompt backtracking we saw), made with the knowledge that they would anger Pakistan, but also with the knowledge that angering Pakistan will not affect UK interests in any significant manner in the long run. They are also made with the knowledge that, as pointed out by Solomon2, they do not require the UK to take any tangible action against Pakistan.

But in terms of validating the oft regurgitated claims against Pakistani institutions, they do nothing since they lack specifics and credible substantiation.

As I said before, we are not in a court of law. You may think that wiki leaks and such statements from the Prime minister of a UNSC country have no bearing on how Pakistan and Pakistanis are perceived in the world and will have no impact on Pakistan's dealings (outside of WOT) with international community but in my view that belief will be misplaced. You are what other people think you are.. No nation is an island and such events (whatever be the reason-economic or otherwise) dont do any good for the perception that nation carries in the world..

 

[amit27]

They flew to a region that was historically lawless and largely ungoverned (something the GoP is attempting to rectify), but their indoctrination into extremism (or the seeds of extremism) happened in Britain, not Pakistan, and for that the UK is to blame.

Were the FATA not ungoverned and lawless, they would have gone to Afghanistan or Somalia, or Sudan or Yemen or some CAR, or they might have just attempted something homemade in the UK.

The problem is with the actual indoctrination into extremism, that is what needs to be prevented, because once that happens there are a million and one ways the indoctrinated extremist can act. They could have used sporting rifles or legal handguns to shoot dead a bunch of people in a shopping center for example, like Major Nadal did in the US.

On the issue of indoctrination, the problem lies in the UK ( in the cases of the 7/7 bombers), not in Pakistan. Note for example that while Pakistan has banned the Hizb-ur-Tahrir as a terrorist/extremist group, the UK has not.

I agree with this statement but the war on terrorism must be fought by all nations, sharing intelligence information and building trust will be key in preventing other plots either in west or in south asia.

 

[SMC]

It matters more what the state thinks/does, less (or pretty much not at all) what the public thinks. Sure, Indians might be happy that many westerners believe their side of the story, but nothing will happen if the western states do nothing.

 

[SMC]

By the way, so much for indians being logical about proofs and allegations, and Pakistanis being conspiracy theorists. LOL.

Looks like the whole of India and a good part of western world is busy in making conspiracy theories themselves.

 

[SMC]

By the way, something clearly is not right here.

US gives us $10 billion aid, 7.5B more to come, military assistance and aid, sells us F-16s, etc. If we were supposedly supporting Taliban (there's no proof for that but let's just assume it to be true), do you seriously think they'd give us aid? Not to mention, our economy was doing pretty good at the time and we didn't actually need the aid.

I am not just talking about democrats. We are alleged to have supported Taliban when republicans were in power. Now we all know their policy as far as any anti-American aggression/anti-american support goes. Instead of attacking us like Iraq, they gave us 10B aid, and were ready to sell us 76 F-16s.

Something is clearly not right as far as these allegations go. But I guess some prefer keeping their head buried in sand.

 

[amit27]

It matters more what the state thinks/does, less (or pretty much not at all) what the public thinks. Sure, Indians might be happy that many westerners believe their side of the story, but nothing will happen if the western states do nothing.

There are things done behind closed doors like intercepting phone calls or monitoring net chatter and gathering intelligence to prevent terror plots either in west or asia.

 

[SMC]

There are things done behind closed doors like intercepting phone calls or monitoring net chatter and gathering intelligence to prevent terror plots either in west or asia.

I am talking about their actions against the Pakistani state.

 

[SMC]

In situations like these, proofs are immaterial.. Why do you need proofs to begin with.. To convince people of your point of view.. Now if people already believe (correctly or not), the same point of view, physical proofs become secondary. US policies (or for that matter any country's) will depend on what most of their lawmakers belive in. Proof or no proof..

So would you argue that we shouldn't need to provide indians proof of indian involvement, that indians shouldn't be asking us for proof for indian involvement, that indians are in no place to attack Pakistanis and call us conspiracy theorists, etc? Because if no, then that would be utter hypocrisy and double standards, since you guys are doing the exact same thing.

You see, this is what happens when the tables turn. If the other side believes the something using standard X, you call it BS and conspiracy theory. If you believe your story also using standard X, it's 'the truth' as far as you're concerned.

Indians call us loonies, conspiracy theorists, head buried in the sand, in denial, etc, etc, for believing in indian involvement without proof. Yet indians do the same thing. So by the same stanards, indians are also loonies, conspiracy theorists, have their head buried in sand, are in denial, etc, etc.