Calls for Bangladesh war trials

[roadrunner]

That foolish and insane “3 Million dead Bengalis” figure is an example of foreign propaganda.

No, it's not foreign propaganda. This "propaganda" is eminating from the Bangladeshi War Museum. It comes from Bangladesh itself. India only supports these lies.

Tell me. How is this foreign propaganda, when it is an offical Bangladeshi website?

Excerpt taken from Bangladesh war museum website
Between March 25 and December 16, estimated 3 million Bengalees were killed, 200000 women raped and 10 million were displaced. This was the worst genocide after Second World War. This was mass killing of innocent civilian, men, women and children too part of the country was spared. Killing field can be found in every town and village.
Killing was particularly targeted towards youth, religious minorities and democratic forces. In the final days of liberation war, local fundamentalist collaborators of Pakistan Army named Al-badar and Al-shams took leading intellectuals including writers, journalists, doctors, lawyers and engineers blindfolded, killed them and dumped them in Dhaka city outskirts

Taken fromliberation_war_museum

For all the crap Kabul (read here Krazai) comes out with, it hasnt yet smeared Pakistan as well as Bangladesh has, because i doubt there'd be much popular support for it, as in Bangladesh.

 

[Tiki Tam Tam]

i was debating with someone that the pak soldiers took no part in the rape of hindu bengali women and that there were patriotic bengali's that formed the majority of the razakaars. these people are ruling bangladesh today and they still haven't been brought to trial, I wonder why bengali people blame us?

Obfuscating with the terminological inexactitude.

Not Hindu alone, who were a minuscule.

Moslem women of Bengali origin were the ones raped in total abandon.

They have not brought these razakars to trial because they require the Bihari votes to topple each other and JI is full of Biharis!!

The Bengalis don't find the Razakars to be patriotic!!

 

[Tiki Tam Tam]

Precisely my point. They chose Bengal because they are closer to Bengalis, than to West Pakistanis.



People from South India could make it to West Pakistan. If they could, why could the Biharis not make it to West Pakistan?

Biharis have nothing in common with Bengalis. I should know.

People from South India went to Pakistan because they spoke Urdu!

 

[asaad-ul-islam]

Obfuscating with the terminological inexactitude.
Not Hindu alone, who were a minuscule.
Moslem women of Bengali origin were the ones raped in total abandon.

there's no need to self-destruct yourself on hearing my post. i can assure you i posted with the intent to show the terrible acts of these people against non-muslim.

i don't think anyone doubts whether muslim women were raped or not. what people do like to notice, mainly akhand bharat fanatics, is hindu women being raped by muslims.

They have not brought these razakars to trial because they require the Bihari votes to topple each other and JI is full of Biharis!!The Bengalis don't find the Razakars to be patriotic!!

I take it from your more recent post above, that you are bengali?
You're wrong, where you claimed that Jamaati islami is filled with Bihari's.

that's total bullshit, jamaati islami's bengali wing is filled with no ethnicity, but bengali. Most Bihari's follow a Shi'a school of thought and would never take part in jamaati activities. if and only if, they were to participate in political "squabbles", they would have done so from a secular perspective.

however, that's not the case today, is it? most bihari's are not accepted into the mainstream bengali society. unfortunately, my country has let them down.

as for "The Bengalis don't find the Razakars to be patriotic!!" part, i think you misunderstood what i said. I meant Bengali's who were patriotic pakistani's, not patriotic bangladeshi's.

 

[roadrunner]

Biharis have nothing in common with Bengalis. I should know.

People from South India went to Pakistan because they spoke Urdu!

You're missing the point Salim. If Urdu speakers from South India chose West Pakistan, why did Urdu speakers from Bihar choose Bengal? The South Indian Urdu speakers had to travel further, after all. Biharis are ethnically not far off Bengalis.

 

[salman nedian]

RR,
Pakistan is not France. We have a different ideology and broader vision. Pakistan is not only for present day Pakistanis since all the sub-continent Muslims (or most of) are creators of Pakistan. If France doesn’t have any ethical values it doesn’t mean that we also should act like them.

As far as the propaganda is concerned you can see that present day Bangladeshis are questioning this foolish figure of 3 million and many of them are denying this means if it was not the propaganda of Bangalis but of Mujib who was an Indian agent.

I respect every Muslim who supports Pakistan and it is our ethical, religious and moral duty to bring Biharis and develop confederation with Bangladesh which was Pakistan.

 

[never]

hi rr
the pakistan movement started in east bengal, the most hindu/muslim ie pak/india violence occured in bihar where muslims were about 10%.
the provinces of sindh, punjab, nwfp had no conciousness ie were congess and had no notion of pakistan all or majority of pakistans founding leaders are immigrants to w pakistan, or urdu speaking.
biharis are not bengali speakig and are ethically north indian like up or delhi.
infacr when sher shah suri constructed the gt rd, alot of pathan workers ended up in bihar to make up alot of th emuslims. there are a lot of khans and maliks in bihari society. by the way th muslim hindu violence pre 47 in bihar was not as one sided as the deographics suggest.in the 1st war of independance during the seige of delhi a lot of muslim biharis and easter upites fought and died, there were no mujahids fro the western side but many traitors fighting for the britis, from multan, lahore and sikhs of course.
biharis always felt they were pakistani and not bangladesi, as they fought for it. i dont care much for links history is actually much deeper.

 

[Malang]

Not so different from everyone in India talking about the ISI propoganda, ISI destabilizing India etc.

Can't have it both ways you know.

ISI is blamed for certain terror acts(type,state etc.) .. and looking at speeches of past ISI chiefs like Nasir, Gul etc. it doesn't take much convincing to believe that yes they could be involved whether direct or indirect..

But in any case they are not an election/votebase/support plank and nor does Pakistan/Kashmir/Islam play a vital role in securing votes unlike in Pakistan(though this election JI and MMA were trounced but I am pretty sure next election they will come back strong)

 

[AgNoStiC MuSliM]

ISI is blamed for certain terror acts(type,state etc.) .. and looking at speeches of past ISI chiefs like Nasir, Gul etc. it doesn't take much convincing to believe that yes they could be involved whether direct or indirect..

That is somewhat incorrect. The ISI is blamed for pretty much any terrorist attack that occurs on Indian soil. Until very recently, this blame was directed at the ISI from official GoI sources. Of late it seems to have been restricted to lower level security forces sources/politicians (a good move).

That the ISI supported the Kashmiri Freedom Movement there is no denying, but that support was for a movement against the "occupation of the Indian Army" in a region that is considered disputed territory, not India. It was not support for blowing up trains, market places and killing innocent villagers - though it is quite obvious now that these groups are out of control and utilizing that training for terrorism in Pakistan itself.

But in any case they are not an election/votebase/support plank and nor does Pakistan/Kashmir/Islam play a vital role in securing votes unlike in Pakistan(though this election JI and MMA were trounced but I am pretty sure next election they will come back strong)

That too is a completely incorrect. and may I argue validation of my contention that the Indian public is fed this cockamamie story to "dehumanize" Pakistan. This story is circulated to cement the view that the only thing holding Pakistan together is its "anti India sentiment" and that is what drives the kashmir issue, which inturn drives the election process and gets parties elected.

The only time the MMA (includes the JI) won big was during the 2002 elections, and most analysts have attributed that win to anti Afghan invasion/anti US sentiment. Kashmir is of importance for Pakistanis, but to argue that it takes precedence over the economy, infaltion, social services etc. is ludicrously inaccurate.

 

[Malang]

That is somewhat incorrect. The ISI is blamed for pretty much any terrorist attack that occurs on Indian soil.

I read one of the reports widely published in 2006/7 where majority of terror acts were blamed upon Maoists... (the one where India was ranked second to Iraq in number of terror acts I think)

Until very recently, this blame was directed at the ISI from official GoI sources. Of late it seems to have been restricted to lower level security forces sources/politicians (a good move).

I think with the arrest of SIMI activists many of the terror cases will be solved it is hoped and I also believe SIMI is one of those groups initially funded by ISI.. so in that blaming ISI is not entirely wrong but whether ISI has control over them and itself is debatable.. (just like Enron where the traders called teh shot and upper mgmt was disconnected with what was happening)

That the ISI supported the Kashmiri Freedom Movement there is no denying, but that support was for a movement against the "occupation of the Indian Army" in a region that is considered disputed territory, not India It was not support for blowing up trains, market places and killing innocent villagers - though it is quite obvious now that these groups are out of control and utilizing that training for terrorism in Pakistan itself.

Subcontinent esp India is full of examples where such groups were raised and then went on a rampage(and turned upon their masters) .. eg. Bhindranwale, Shiv Sena, RSS/VHP, etc.

That too is a completely incorrect. and may I argue validation of my contention that the Indian public is fed this cockamamie story to "dehumanize" Pakistan.

dehumanize Pak? with all these CBM's and sucky GoI propaganda I think your concerns are unfounded. (though this was a personal observation like most of the post)

This story is circulated to cement the view that the only thing holding Pakistan together is its "anti India sentiment" and that is what drives the kashmir issue, which inturn drives the election process and gets parties elected.

well this was my personal opinion, an average Indian is generally ignorant about Kashmir and even more ignorant on what Kashmir means to Pakistan.Even an average Haryanvi/Himachali believes there always was a state so called and not invented in th 60's.

The only time the MMA (includes the JI) won big was during the 2002 elections, and most analysts have attributed that win to anti Afghan invasion/anti US sentiment. Kashmir is of importance for Pakistanis, but to argue that it takes precedence over the economy, infaltion, social services etc. is ludicrously inaccurate.

I didn't say it takes precedence but it is an important topic nonetheless and is routinely raised unlike in India. (again my opinion).

 

[Always Neutral]

RR,

As far as the propaganda is concerned you can see that present day Bangladeshis are questioning this foolish figure of 3 million and many of them are denying this means if it was not the propaganda of Bangalis but of Mujib who was an Indian agent.

I respect every Muslim who supports Pakistan and it is our ethical, religious and moral duty to bring Biharis and develop confederation with Bangladesh which was Pakistan.

Dear Salman,

Contrary to your post there was a very recent and vocal demand made for the war trials to be conducted. Please also see the bold statements in the article. Personally I think it will be a waste of time.

Regards


Khaleej Times Online - Bangladesh commanders demand war crime trial

Bangladesh commanders demand war crime trial
(Reuters)

21 March 2008


DHAKA - More than 36 years after Bangladesh won independence through a bloody war that killed 3 million people, commanders and veterans of the conflict gathered in Dhaka on Friday to demand trial of alleged war criminals.


The issue has strong political implications as some alleged suspects are leaders and activists of the Jamaat-e-Islami Party, part of the government of former Prime Minister Begum Khaleda Zia who ended her five-year term in power in October 2006.

Jamaat denies the accusations.

Rallying under the banner of the Bangladesh Liberation War Sector Commanders’ Forum, those attending urged the army-backed interim government to at least initiate war crime trials.

The first convention of the recently-formed forum was attended by many who said they witnessed carnage by Pakistan’s army and collaborators in the then East Pakistan in 1971.

Tight security was imposed around the forum venue.

Speakers, including past top military officers who fought in the nine-month war, said they felt anguished and disgraced over the long delay in bringing war criminals to justice.

‘Our campaign to bring the war criminals to law and put them through trials will continue indefinitely, until the authorities make our dream into reality,’ said former air chief A.K. Khandaker, Bangladesh Liberation Army deputy chief in 1971.

‘I appeal to the government to form war crimes tribunals and also to seek help of the United Nations to arrange trial of the war criminals,’ Khandaker added.

War crimes during Bangladesh’s independence war against Pakistan has been a largely dormant issue under successive governments.

Top interim authority officials said it was too busy with other issues, including holding elections before year-end, to take up the sensitive and complex war crime matter.

Many Bangladeshis accuse Jamaat, the country’s biggest religion-based political party, of having opposed independence and complicity with the Pakistani army in killings, rapes and other atrocities.

Bangladesh official records say around 3 million people died during the 1971 war at the hands of the Pakistani army and local collaborators.

Major political parties and other critics have also said Jamaat has harboured violent Islamist militants and wants Bangladesh to be a sharia-based Islamic state.

 

[Always Neutral]

AIUK : Bangladesh: Amnesty calls for UN to investigate war crimes

Bangladesh: Amnesty calls for UN to investigate war crimes
Posted: 09 January 2008

Amnesty's Secretary General calls for justice for thousands killed

Amnesty International has called for a full-scale investigation into human rights violations carried out during the Liberation War of 1971 in what is now Bangladesh.

Speaking at a meeting in Dhaka, Amnesty International's Secretary General, Irene Khan, urged the country's Caretaker Government to approach the United Nations to request assistance in following processes of international law and in setting up an inquiry.

She added that the government could be assured of independent, impartial advice based on the experience of the 33 commissions already established elsewhere around the world.

Referring to the progress made in this area in the Americas, Africa and Asia, Irene Khan, said:

'Today's there's a worldwide global anti-impunity movement, like the global hunger movement.'

Meanwhile, she also welcomed the government's decision to establish the National Human Rights Commission, but stressed that it would have to be a strong and effective body.

 

[AgNoStiC MuSliM]

dehumanize Pak? with all these CBM's and sucky GoI propaganda I think your concerns are unfounded. (though this was a personal observation like most of the post)

The CBM's are welcome and indeed useful, however almost every Indian I have talked to refers to the "Pakistani obsession with Kashmir", and how it drives politics in Pakistan. That indicates that a particular narrative pertaining to Pakistan has taken root in India, wherein Pakistan really has no reson de etre but to perpetually hate India and the Kashmir cause drives this hate.

What this sort of narrative does is that it completely obviates all sense of Pakistanis existing to develop a viable, prosperous economic State - and argues that Pakistan's existence is based on "hate and territorial expansionism".

well this was my personal opinion, an average Indian is generally ignorant about Kashmir and even more ignorant on what Kashmir means to Pakistan.Even an average Haryanvi/Himachali believes there always was a state so called and not invented in th 60's.



I didn't say it takes precedence but it is an important topic nonetheless and is routinely raised unlike in India. (again my opinion).

An important topic, but if you analyze it in more depth, how do you think it actually drives politics? The only thing political parties promise on kashmir is (jingoistic version) "we will free kashmir", but then if every party promises that, how can the Kashmir issue drive the political process?

The parties that do take extremely nationalistic and anti-India positions on Kashmir continue to do poorly in the elections.

Kashmir does drive our relationship with India, Pakistanis would like to see the issue resolved before full fledged normalization, but even here there is no singular position adopted by everyone.

The business, arts, culture community would like normalization regardless, and even the average Pakistani might say that normalization in various spheres is a good idea, without Kashmir being resolved.

The positions taken by Pakistanis on Kashmir, and its level of importance to them, are too fluid to characterize it as a "make or break issue" in Pakistan.

 

[never]

in the early 70s (after 71) 3 million bangladeshis died from famine due to lack of rice, as the world bank would not provide loans or guaranties for rice purchase from the new state.
the un does not infact clssify 71 as a genocide as nothing happened of that nature.
yhe bengalis had to pretend it happened and claim they were down trodden other wise what would be the justification for there bid for independance. the reality after 40 yrs of banglaeshi independance is that it is much much poorer than pakistan even though they have been afforded huge assistance in every manner from the world community, ie grants preferable trade treatment etc whilst pakistan was the most sanctioned country in the world according to powell.
india in its obsession with destroying pakistan had felt grt pride in the independance of bangladesh even though in reality for pak the eastern provicence was in fact a mill stone round its neck. i refer to rahul gandhis statement where he took credit on behalf of congress for the dismemberment of pakistan. the bengali leadership as early as 1948 was grating against jinnah and held a black flag greeting for him on his 1st trip to dhaka after independance. any how this is water under the bridge and good luck to them, but the bid for independance where they claimed 3million died is fiction. some of my family died in 71, who were civilians at the hands of bengalis, infact no non bengali family had been sparred of killings. india the devil plotted but their plot failed to weaken pakistan. anyhow i look forward to kashmir leaving india and khalista zindabad.

 

[salman nedian]

AN,
I know many Bangladeshis who want good relations with Pakistan and they are still pro-Pakistan since they know that they have got nothing special after separation.

The mentality of hostility reversed when President Musharraf went to Bangladesh and he apologized on the sad events of 1971 which created the emotions of friendliness and brotherhood in Bangladesh towards Pakistan. But there are few elements who don’t want friendship with Pakistan since their political career is based on that propaganda and off course there are foreign forces which push them to do so.

After the apology from Pakistan I think the case is over because there were atrocities from both side so both the countries are responsible for their illogical fight. It’s time to forget the past differences and reunite.