Bush uses anti-terror funds to strengthen Pakistan air force

[blain2]

Good luck with your lecture. Will take this up some other time

 

[muse]

EDITORIAL


Khaleej Times Online >> News >> EDITORIAL With friends like these...

31 July 2008

THE visiting Pakistan Prime Minister Yousuf Raza Gilani has come under intense pressure in Washington. As predicted in these columns a couple of days ago, the US officials have asked the visiting leader to “do more” to fight Washington's endless war in the region.

According to a New York Times report, the CIA officials are said to have handed Prime Minister Gilani “evidence” of the ISI's involvement and cooperation with the Taleban and other militant groups along the lawless Pakistan-Afghanistan border.

While Washington's concern over the state of affairs in Afghanistan and the recent changes in Pakistan is understandable, it is debatable how far the US can push Pakistan's leadership on the terror war.

For one, the situation in Pakistan's troubled north is something that Islamabad cannot control, even though the region is supposed to be part of the country. In fact, even the wily British with all their imperial powers couldn't rein in the lawless northwest frontier region.

Even now more than 80,000 members of Pakistani army is fighting to take control of the area, without much success. It has lost thousands of its soldiers to this war against its own people, not to mention the countless civilian casualties.

For two, Pakistan itself is going through an existential churning with the army, Musharraf and the politicians all fighting for control. So the ISI or no ISI, Prime Minister Gilani who is yet to prove his credentials as a leader to his own people and the party can do little to help Washington.

So pushing Pakistan beyond a point could actually prove counterproductive. Especially when the Bush administration generates strong reactions among ordinary Pakistanis. The Pakistani television networks were debating all day yesterday how Bush winked at some journalists as the Pak PM was reiterating his commitment to the US war on terror. This may not be very important as far as Bush is concerned. But it sent a wrong message to his friends and allies in Pakistan. With friends like these...

 

[Tiki Tam Tam]

I have not been a FAC myself but have seen plenty of observers and fwd controllers during firings and exs in Pakistan.

We do not intend to use jet aircraft in the CAS roles in FATA. Cobra gunships are good for such Close air support roles. However there are issues with the Cobras due to the limited range of the weaponry and also because militants can detect the slower moving aircraft and get out of sight. Fast moving aircraft with targeting pods and PGMs provide the needed stealth and standoff ranges for us to be able to engage these threats. The other alternate is for the US to release Apaches or Predators (which have been requested for release and acquisition by Pakistan) but I am sure some here would have a heart attack over that as well.

If F 16 are not in CAS role what is it for?

Even targeting the AQ is CAS = ground role.

Let's not overestimate PGMs.

 

[Tiki Tam Tam]

Good luck with your lecture. Will take this up some other time

But it was a good lecture, what?

 

[Tiki Tam Tam]

So pushing Pakistan beyond a point could actually prove counterproductive. Especially when the Bush administration generates strong reactions among ordinary Pakistanis. The Pakistani television networks were debating all day yesterday how Bush winked at some journalists as the Pak PM was reiterating his commitment to the US war on terror. This may not be very important as far as Bush is concerned. But it sent a wrong message to his friends and allies in Pakistan. With friends like these...

I think the US knows how much it can push Pakistan.

It is for Pakistan to indicate, enough is enough.

It does not do so.

There must be good reason not to do so.

 

[IceCold]

There must be good reason not to do so.

There is. How would pockets be filled then.

 

[blain2]

If F 16 are not in CAS role what is it for?

Even targeting the AQ is CAS = ground role.

Let's not overestimate PGMs.

There is a difference in the type of Close Air Support we are talking about here in FATA. One type is greatly helped by the F-16's precision targeting and strike capability but its not really CAS as the aircraft is flying over 30K feet.

Currently the Cobras are being used in Force Protection role which is something that a jet like the F-16 cannot do. The helis stick around for the convoys to get to where they need to go. The downside is that when the Cobras are out there, they are noisy and the range of their main weapon (TOW) is limited to 4 miles. A lot of people know when Cobras are coming.

F-16s with advanced targeting pods like the Sniper XR (on order) have certain capabilities that no other platform in the Pakistani inventory have. The F-16s can track and paint targets at 50,000 feet day or night and nobody on the ground would know that they are being watched or targeted. This is the reason that Predator UAVs have had success as nobody sees them before or after they strike. In the absence of Predators, the F-16s are the only platform that can give this capability to Pakistan.

PGM overestimation or underestimation is not the issue here. They definitely work better than any other ordnance on hand.

 

[IceCold]

There is a difference in the type of Close Air Support we are talking about here in FATA. One type is greatly helped by the F-16's precision targeting and strike capability but its not really CAS as the aircraft is flying over 30K feet.

Currently the Cobras are being used in Force Protection role which is something that a jet like the F-16 cannot do. The helis stick around for the convoys to get to where they need to go. The downside is that when the Cobras are out there, they are noisy and the range of their main weapon (TOW) is limited to 4 miles. A lot of people know when Cobras are coming.

F-16s with advanced targeting pods like the Sniper XR (on order) have certain capabilities that no other platform in the Pakistani inventory have. The F-16s can track and paint targets at 50,000 feet day or night and nobody on the ground would know that they are being watched or targeted. This is the reason that Predator UAVs have had success as nobody sees them before or after they strike. In the absence of Predators, the F-16s are the only platform that can give this capability to Pakistan.

PGM overestimation or underestimation is not the issue here. They definitely work better than any other ordnance on hand.

blain2 sir, can the JF-17 with the blue sky low navigation and attack pod, kz900 electronic reconnaissance and FILAT forward-looking infrared laser attack targeting pod perform similar role, the F-16 with with the Sniper pod would do? If yes then it would be an ideal approach in the future provided the future of F-16s always remains doubtful.

 

[blain2]

blain2 sir, can the JF-17 with the blue sky low navigation and attack pod, kz900 electronic reconnaissance and FILAT forward-looking infrared laser attack targeting pod perform similar role, the F-16 with with the Sniper pod would do? If yes then it would be an ideal approach in the future provided the future of F-16s always remains doubtful.

Ice Sir,

I really do not know much about the pod that you are referring to. However Sniper XR is not the only pod capable of providing extended range FLIR capability . As far as I know, the JF-17s will also have targeting pod and a FLIR capability. It very well may be what you are suggesting, however I have not heard any specifics about the type of Targeting/FLIR pod for the JF-17 (I remember CPD JF-17 mention that the aircraft was slated to have this capability a few years ago).

 

[batmannow]

My, dear hoounarable commrads,
I would, like to remind you all that , its not a military aviation section of DEFENCE.PK. so plz, kindly post, your posts to MILITARY AVIATION section. thanks

 

[blain2]

I agree. Back on track now..