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Buner falls without a fight

Perusal of post # 35 will enlighten you.

No it does not, because your logic does not make sense? Ok tell me if Pakistan would have been able to distance itself from India as you put it, don't you think we should have been able to do so and avert 71 from happening.
 
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WTF - you are mixing two different issues - the Taliban in Afghanistan, and the Taliban in Pakistan.

The rise of the Taliban in Pakistan started after the US invasion of Afghanistan.

Maybe. We'll know for sure if they are the same or the different people when we find stinger missiles with them. There is no better fingerprint of the groups than that. India does not have any, China and Russia do not. Afghanistan does not currently operate them. Rehman Malik is complaining that they are coming in with Stingers, hence my belief that they are the same people from Afghanistan.

12 die in bloody siege at Pakistan police academy

On the other hand drones are being shot down with guns and cannons, so there may be more groups active in the border.
 
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Maybe. We'll know for sure if they are the same or the different people when we find stinger missiles with them. There is no better fingerprint of the groups than that. India does not have any, China and Russia do not. Afghanistan does not currently operate them. Rehman Malik is complaining that they are coming in with Stingers, hence my belief that they are the same people from Afghanistan.

12 die in bloody siege at Pakistan police academy

On the other hand drones are being shot down with guns and cannons, so there may be more groups active in the border.

WTF:

There is no maybe here. We know who the leaders of these groups are, and the majority of the leaders of the TTP are from the Pakistani tribal areas.

Tribal dynamics dictate that even within the TTP umbrella, only people from the specific tribe of the area are leaders of the Taliban - Mehsud is from South Waziristan, Faqir Muhammed from Bajaur, Gul Bahadur from North Waziristan etc.

These Pakistani Taliban may shelter Afghan taliban, but that could not happen unless the hosting groups were from the local tribes to begin with.

As for stingers - weapons from Afghanistan have long flowed into Pakistan, with or without the Taliban. Criminal elements in both nations will always have connections on that count.
 
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I more than agree but solely blaming the west for what ails Pakistan now is what I find hard to accept. After all creation of a new Pakhtoonistan is not something the west cares one way or the other but you definately need to. Anyway by carrying out the flawed agreement with the SWAT TTP further you are actually reducing the chances further of bringing them into the main stream.

Regards

It is ONLy the West that have to be blamed for all this mess.
Let me write it down in an chronolgical order for your better assimilation:

The Soviets want access to warm waters.

It does the following three things:
1. Attempted to take over afganistan!
2.To make it easier it unfolded the following actions:
-Fueled the concepts of Phuktoonistan (which already was a thorny issue between Pakistan and afghanistan)
-. Supported insurgency in balochistan.

Ofcourse it never wanted to get stuck in afghanistan due to pakistan after it took over the former.

So it had to get the balochs independent (with the concept of Greater Balochistan) and the NWFP to be under the afgan contraol(via Phuktoonistan isue)

The US counter the virus of Cummunism


How can the US kept quite at this. Oh thanks to the Cold War.

The US don't and should not fight the Soviest face to face ..so what does it do...it comes to us.

We get money, F-16s, stingers, support against india and Talibs are born.

We trained them with your money, your dollars and assitance.
We agree to sort the soviets out with your help. The slogan of JIHAD is raised, this JIHAD becomes HOLY as it has the US patronage!! People volunteer in flocks. Relgious organizations are funded to provide fuel in terms of men and material.

In turn what do we get....3 million rafugees, free flow of drugs, unchecked influx of illegal weapons and militancy.

And YOU...you did as you alweays had..the day the last Soviet crossed the border back into USSR you showed us the a** and ducked back.

Sensible people try to explain you that still there is lot to be done inside afghanistan..it has to be rehabilitated, those childern who have only seen war since the day they have borns needs to go to schools, those millions laying as refugees needs shelter and the right direction, but who cared.!!

They marry here, had childern, had their families on sides of the porous borders and then you come again , beating the drum of WOT!!!

You again flush them and all the f!lth comes inside Pakistan. The reasons, where should they go, under the ground or to the space?? And what about the older connections, both blood and tribal(thanks to your proxy war)

It was mentioned in the planning stages that kicking the talibs inside afganistan would fuel the insurgencies inside pakistan...bnut you gave a damn. We were told that we would be bombed to the Stone Age!!

And now when after throwing all the f!lth inside our land you again dare to balme us!! daring indeed!!

We have been fighting in Kashmir since the last 60 years but ever heard a sucide attack teher...generation of generations have been killed by the indian forces, but no sucide attacks! Why??

i'll tell you why..because it is not what a Muslim do!!period.


Now what next..gwadar.. oh ya gwadar..it pnches you..how can you let it bloom. How can you let China counter you heagmony??

So you again play there..thnks again.

And meanwhile thnks to india it wanted to reciprocat what was doen to it in kashmir and also wants to counter our strat depth by turning afghanistan agaisnst us.

And then you chose india as a counter-weight to china..what bad it could bring to you if india also fits in your larger game....
 
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It is ONLy the West that have to be blamed for all this mess.
Let me write it down in an chronolgical order for your better assimilation:

....

Ok even if the West provided you the tools to blow your brains out it still required Pakistan to pull the trigger. Why is Pakistan so scared to be Neutral inspite of your so called nuclear weapons status. Why are you still asking for aid from the west.

Before that just answer one question TTP in Swat are your own people who donot welcome your own army ? Is that right ?

Regards
 
.
It is ONLy the West that have to be blamed for all this mess.
Let me write it down in an chronolgical order for your better assimilation:

The Soviets want access to warm waters.

It does the following three things:
1. Attempted to take over afganistan!
2.To make it easier it unfolded the following actions:
-Fueled the concepts of Phuktoonistan (which already was a thorny issue between Pakistan and afghanistan)
-. Supported insurgency in balochistan.

Ofcourse it never wanted to get stuck in afghanistan due to pakistan after it took over the former.

So it had to get the balochs independent (with the concept of Greater Balochistan) and the NWFP to be under the afgan contraol(via Phuktoonistan isue)

The US counter the virus of Cummunism


How can the US kept quite at this. Oh thanks to the Cold War.

The US don't and should not fight the Soviest face to face ..so what does it do...it comes to us.

We get money, F-16s, stingers, support against india and Talibs are born.

We trained them with your money, your dollars and assitance.
We agree to sort the soviets out with your help. The slogan of JIHAD is raised, this JIHAD becomes HOLY as it has the US patronage!! People volunteer in flocks. Relgious organizations are funded to provide fuel in terms of men and material.

In turn what do we get....3 million rafugees, free flow of drugs, unchecked influx of illegal weapons and militancy.

And YOU...you did as you alweays had..the day the last Soviet crossed the border back into USSR you showed us the a** and ducked back.

Sensible people try to explain you that still there is lot to be done inside afghanistan..it has to be rehabilitated, those childern who have only seen war since the day they have borns needs to go to schools, those millions laying as refugees needs shelter and the right direction, but who cared.!!

They marry here, had childern, had their families on sides of the porous borders and then you come again , beating the drum of WOT!!!

You again flush them and all the f!lth comes inside Pakistan. The reasons, where should they go, under the ground or to the space?? And what about the older connections, both blood and tribal(thanks to your proxy war)

It was mentioned in the planning stages that kicking the talibs inside afganistan would fuel the insurgencies inside pakistan...bnut you gave a damn. We were told that we would be bombed to the Stone Age!!

And now when after throwing all the f!lth inside our land you again dare to balme us!! daring indeed!!

We have been fighting in Kashmir since the last 60 years but ever heard a sucide attack teher...generation of generations have been killed by the indian forces, but no sucide attacks! Why??

i'll tell you why..because it is not what a Muslim do!!period.


Now what next..gwadar.. oh ya gwadar..it pnches you..how can you let it bloom. How can you let China counter you heagmony??

So you again play there..thnks again.

And meanwhile thnks to india it wanted to reciprocat what was doen to it in kashmir and also wants to counter our strat depth by turning afghanistan agaisnst us.

And then you chose india as a counter-weight to china..what bad it could bring to you if india also fits in your larger game....

Good Excuse for the history books if ever SWAT and Buner declare independance from Pakistan ! Keep it up.

Regards
 
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No it does not, because your logic does not make sense? Ok tell me if Pakistan would have been able to distance itself from India as you put it, don't you think we should have been able to do so and avert 71 from happening.

Allow me.

No Pak could not have done anything to avert 71 by distancing itself from India. Simply coz GOP by then had distanced itself from its own citizens in EP. Why else would citizens who fought for Pak in 65 turn against it 6 yrs later ? The problem then as now was / is within.

To revert to the discussion at hand , when it felt appropriate Pak has distanced itself from India. Similarly, it could have distanced itself from Af ( taliban) if it so felt. However short sighted policies by GOP / ISI have led to the mess things have reached to.
 
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Good Excuse for the history books if ever SWAT and Buner declare independance from Pakistan ! Keep it up.

Regards

Those are all valid arguments explaining the impact of US polices on Pakistan, specifically the rise of extremism in Pakistan.

That said, there are valid arguments that Pakistan could have done more to prevent the deterioration of the situation once it started, and that takes you into another discussion altogether (on the Swat thread and elsewhere) of the geo-political compulsions, lack of trust in the US replicating the 'abandonment' as soon as its own interests were achieved etc.

And even there one could argue that Pakistani geo-political compulsions were driven by US policies post Afghan invasion -where Pakistan was sidelined, and anti-Pakistan (pro India) warlords and criminals were allowed to control the government, and India allowed to exercise influence through them.

You have to look at all sides of the issue.
 
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Stop monkeying around.

Repeating the same old text would not yield any results.
Ok even if the West provided you the tools to blow your brains out it still required Pakistan to pull the trigger. Why is Pakistan so scared to be Neutral inspite of your so called nuclear weapons status.
Why don't the US goes into iran while it also holds the largest number of Nukes?

Why didn't you have the guts to stop the Soviets frontally despitse being the most advanced?

What don't you counter China directly while being the sole super power of the world?

Before that just answer one question TTP in Swat are your own people who donot welcome your own army ? Is that right ?

Regards
Thanks to your foreign policy!
Swat was a paradise before 9/11

And though TTP sorta organization had been around it since long it never had the guts to use force. Thnks to you again!

BTW would you please try to answer my concerns before you post your Zionist designs?
 
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Allow me.

No Pak could not have done anything to avert 71 by distancing itself from India. Simply coz GOP by then had distanced itself from its own citizens in EP. Why else would citizens who fought for Pak in 65 turn against it 6 yrs later ? The problem then as now was / is within.

To revert to the discussion at hand , when it felt appropriate Pak has distanced itself from India. Similarly, it could have distanced itself from Af ( taliban) if it so felt. However short sighted policies by GOP / ISI have led to the mess things have reached to.

Sure you win!:rolleyes:
 
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Stop monkeying around.

Repeating the same old text would not yield any results.

Why don't the US goes into iran while it also holds the largest number of Nukes?

Why didn't you have the guts to stop the Soviets frontally despitse being the most advanced?

What don't you counter China directly while being the sole super power of the world?


Thanks to your foreign policy!
Swat was a paradise before 9/11

And though TTP sorta organization had been around it since long it never had the guts to use force. Thnks to you again!

BTW would you please try to answer my concerns before you post your Zionist designs?


Actually your rants about zionist designs to dis member Pakistan is akin to what happened in 1971. Sorry to bring up that memory but if you see it seems History is repeating itself.

East Pakistan
1965 people fight gallantly against India with the PA
1965-1971 People feel let down by West Pakistani leaders and PA
1971 Bangladesh is born.


Swat, Buner, NWFP etc

1990 - people fight gallantly against russians with the PA
1997-2006 - people want to follow a different path from mainstream pakistan
2006 - 2009 People now fight against the PA

Regards

Ps : Why would zionist want Pakistan to fail ?
 
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Why is Pakistan so scared to be Neutral inspite of your so called nuclear weapons status.
Regards
Oh an di forgot ..you wanted us to be nuetral..to get us sandwiched between afghanistan and india.
Remeber the famous sentence..Either you are with us or with them

Now you want us to fight with the sole super power who alone spends 50% of the world defnce budget it it's military. You are damn guud at policy making, i bet.

BTW..what went wrong with the English? Why did you change course? Why couldn't you keep you own identity safe against the americans

What went wrog after WW2?

Why the begging?

Why to have a joint consortium of NATO to protect you a** from the Russians?

What happened to the Dunkrik Treaty of March 1947

What was wrong with the Brussels Treaty?

Why the Western Union Defence Organization needed the patronage to the US?
Why on 30th April 1948 the Defnce Ministers and the Chiefs of Staff odf the five Brussels Treaty countries met in London to study their military equipment needs, with a view to determining how they could meet from their own production and how much supplementary aid should be requested from the US
 
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