Britain set to confront China with new aircraft carrier

[hualushui]

I'm scared

 

[Reashot Xigwin]

Real time data needed only in the final stage, when the missile/warhead is close enough to hit the target precisely and it is the function of the onboard sensor. Thats why many missile especially the long range ones have onboard sensors.

During initial phase, you dont need accurate real time data. Even inaccurate OTH radar will be enough to guide the missile approaching the CBG.




There is still OTH radars. How do you kill OTH radars located in deep enemy teritorry?
Besides killing satellites will be reciprocal, China could kill GPS satellite as much as US could kill Beidou.




Which problem you mean, realtime data?

Nope! realtime data is problem for the distance sensor due to the travel time required by EM pulse. Again as explained above "onboard sensor" is the key.

Otherwise, how come many missiles like sidewinder, amraam, meteor, pl-15 etc could hit supersonic target like jet fighter?




How submarine could guide the missile?




If so then why US military view DF21/DF26 seriously.

The USN & her allies like RN never consider the DF to be a serious threat. It's all psy-ops like I said earlier. Like F-22 said already they are well prepared to counter it.

Relying on onboard GPS is not enough. Otherwise why don't the Chinese just use SCUD if they are so effective as you say. The problem is that in order to get it close for the GPS to hone in on you still have to rely on external surveillance. That's the problem, the sea as donald trump put it is really big (& really wet.) A really big place without proper detection system. Unless you want to eyeball it but by then the USN would have launched a naval & amphibious strike.

Also you forgot to mention the opposing side counter-measure which range from EW to AEGIS. Not to mention that most CBG would fly CAP, sea patrol & ASW to say the least. No SBM can scratch that.

The tried & true method of sinking a ship has always been cruise missiles.

Also please don't compare AA missiles to ballistic one.

 

[antonius123]

The USN & her allies like RN never consider the DF to be a serious threat. It's all psy-ops like I said earlier. Like F-22 said already they are well prepared to counter it.

If so, then why it trigger arm race with US and allies?
https://theconversation.com/chinas-...ten-an-arms-race-in-the-western-pacific-73081

Relying on onboard GPS is not enough. Otherwise why don't the Chinese just use SCUD if they are so effective as you say. The problem is that in order to get it close for the GPS to hone in on you still have to rely on external surveillance. That's the problem, the sea as donald trump put it is really big (& really wet.) A really big place without proper detection system. Unless you want to eyeball it but by then the USN would have launched a naval & amphibious strike.

You missunderstood, onboard sensor is not necesserally dependent on GPS. It could be radar or IR sensor.

As I've explained: on board radar is not enough for the whole phase (initial, mid) but it is effective and needed in final stage. So during Initial and Mid phase DF-26 could rely on OTH radar or Geo Satellite.

It is not a problem to find ship in western pacific, many times China show her ability to track US ships in SCS and have her ships following US ships. Some pdf user has shown satelite image of several US ships in SCS.

Also you forgot to mention the opposing side counter-measure which range from EW to AEGIS. Not to mention that most CBG would fly CAP, sea patrol & ASW to say the least. No SBM can scratch that.

You dont read my explanation above. I've explained you why AEGIS system wont be effective to shoot down incoming warhead with speed 30 mach & evasive maneuver.

Explain how CAP, sea patrol & ASW could stop DF26?

The tried & true method of sinking a ship has always been cruise missiles.

Also please don't compare AA missiles to ballistic one.

You think so, because so far only China has ballistic ASBM DF-21 and DF-26 while you doubt the capability.

My explanation above should be enough to explain why DF-21 and DF-26 are feasible to hit moving target on the sea, and why it is so difficult to counter.

Thats why US is having headache now

 

[Viet]

Military chiefs have drawn up plans to base one of Britain’s new aircraft carriers in the Far East to play a part in countering an increasingly assertive China, The Times can reveal.

HMS Queen Elizabeth, the first of the two carriers to complete training, will set sail on its maiden grand voyage as the centrepiece of a carrier strike group early next year. The £3.1 billion vessel is expected to visit the Far East, conducting military exercises with allies including the United States and Japan.

It is also likely to spend some time as a “floating trade fair”, used as a platform for deals, according to a defence source.

https://www.thetimes.co.uk/edition/...ont-china-with-new-aircraft-carrier-v2gnwrr88

Hmm why I have the impression UK carrier looks so cheap if compared to US carrier despite $4 billion price tag.
But anyway party time we welcome UK carrier with open arm to the Sc sea. The french carriers can come too. We must stop chinese clowns.

 

[Yaseen1]

we have seen that u.s aircraft carrier not able to control ordinary fire,imagine what will happen to these carriers when real missile strike them and cause much more fire and damage than the fire happened in repairing

 

[Viet]

we have seen that u.s aircraft carrier not able to control ordinary fire,imagine what will happen to these carriers when real missile strike them and cause much more fire and damage than the fire happened in repairing

That fire means little.
the US can handle this.
After being hit and sunk in Pearl Harbor many sunk warships were recovered, repaired and sent to battles. In Midway.

 

[Yaseen1]

it take years to repair them and by that time war result might have changed and also modern missiles are much more lethal as compared to those used in pearl harbor

That fire means little.
the US can handle this.
After being hit and sunk in Pearl Harbor many sunk warships were recovered, repaired and sent to battles. In Midway.

 

[Viet]

it take years to repair them and by that time war result might have changed and also modern missiles are much more lethal as compared to those used in pearl harbor

You think chinese have lethal missiles other don’t? If chinese launch missiles from mainland they will receive a retaliatory strike on mainland. There is no doubt about that.

 

[Reashot Xigwin]

If so, then why it trigger arm race with US and allies?
https://theconversation.com/chinas-...ten-an-arms-race-in-the-western-pacific-73081




You missunderstood, onboard sensor is not necesserally dependent on GPS. It could be radar or IR sensor.

As I've explained: on board radar is not enough for the whole phase (initial, mid) but it is effective and needed in final stage. So during Initial and Mid phase DF-26 could rely on OTH radar or Geo Satellite.

It is not a problem to find ship in western pacific, many times China show her ability to track US ships in SCS and have her ships following US ships. Some pdf user has shown satelite image of several US ships in SCS.





You dont read my explanation above. I've explained you why AEGIS system wont be effective to shoot down incoming warhead with speed 30 mach & evasive maneuver.

Explain how CAP, sea patrol & ASW could stop DF26? [emoji23]




You think so, because so far only China has ballistic ASBM DF-21 and DF-26 while you doubt the capability.

My explanation above should be enough to explain why DF-21 and DF-26 are feasible to hit moving target on the sea, and why it is so difficult to counter.

Thats why US is having headache now

The media tends to over sensationalize everything. Just look at the whole Afghan camouflage debacle.

The real truth however is not really. As shown by the USN sending 2 CSG. Nimitz & Reagan & the UK sending Lizzie.

How the heck an IR even get to this? The DF doesn't have IR they still really on GPS for navigation.

If China doesn't have the exact location of the enemy fleet them fancy "sensor" doesn't worth much.

CAP are necessary to intercept planes or missile coming in. They not only can intercept it 1st but they can still relay the information to their home fleet to evade or prepare for incoming fire. High speed doesn't mean shit if the enemy knows where it's coming from and are well prepared.

Do tell me how a sidewinder are the same as a ballistic missile?

 

[FairAndUnbiased]

Let me explain the problems with relying on that system in Uno by Uno basis:

1. If they use satellite for targetting then that means the defending force have to wait for the proper satellite in the right place above the enemy fleet, the problems is that GPS (or Beidou) are not real time & the enemy would have moved somewhere else. (Also the US can like shoot or sabotage the Chinese satellite if the conflict gets too hot. )

2. If it by air reconnaissance they have a choice between soft kill or hard kill. ( Jam or just blowing them out off existence. Considering it's the US or UK they will just choose the latter.

3. Onboard GPS same problem. Unreliable data. It's basically no different than SCUD.

4. You forgot to mention is by submarine. This is the one that's more likely to produce result. But the problem is that a CBG would have placed Towed Array Sonar to protect the carrier group.

SBM real values are in force multiplier & as psy-ops. It's never meant to be useful against a CBG, against a single straggler ship it is useful. The problem is that it's almost never so.

1. have you heard of oblique angle cameras? widens the orbital paths greatly. You also make a large assumption about satellite orbits. Only polar low earth orbits have to wait for the satellite to appear directly overhead. Other satellites have continent scale field of vision.

2. have you heard of hypersonic recon stealth drones?

3. who the **** uses onboard GPS for a moving target.

4. do you even know how subs communicate? nobody forgot. This option doesn't exist.

5. there is no difference between a straggling ship and a non-straggling one in terms of sensor detection. if the missile is as ineffective as you think it is, then it's not psyops.

 

[Viet]

If so, then why it trigger arm race with US and allies?
https://theconversation.com/chinas-...ten-an-arms-race-in-the-western-pacific-73081




You missunderstood, onboard sensor is not necesserally dependent on GPS. It could be radar or IR sensor.

As I've explained: on board radar is not enough for the whole phase (initial, mid) but it is effective and needed in final stage. So during Initial and Mid phase DF-26 could rely on OTH radar or Geo Satellite.

It is not a problem to find ship in western pacific, many times China show her ability to track US ships in SCS and have her ships following US ships. Some pdf user has shown satelite image of several US ships in SCS.





You dont read my explanation above. I've explained you why AEGIS system wont be effective to shoot down incoming warhead with speed 30 mach & evasive maneuver.

Explain how CAP, sea patrol & ASW could stop DF26?




You think so, because so far only China has ballistic ASBM DF-21 and DF-26 while you doubt the capability.

My explanation above should be enough to explain why DF-21 and DF-26 are feasible to hit moving target on the sea, and why it is so difficult to counter.

Thats why US is having headache now

You sound as if chinese just reinvent the physics.
Mach 1 means 343 m/s. That is about the size of US carrier in one second.
How you manage a missile in Mach 30 in zig zag to a moving ship in 30 kn in just few km away?

 

[antonius123]

You sound as if chinese just reinvent the physics.
Mach 1 means 343 m/s. That is about the size of US carrier in one second.
How you manage a missile in Mach 30 in zig zag to a moving ship in 30 kn in just few km away?

No need to do zig zag, just change trajectory a bit from original balistic trajectory.

SM-6 need to take down the warhead when it is still in the space, the distance from there to the target is relatively still large for this kind of maneuver.

 

[Reashot Xigwin]

1. have you heard of oblique angle cameras? widens the orbital paths greatly. You also make a large assumption about satellite orbits. Only polar low earth orbits have to wait for the satellite to appear directly overhead. Other satellites have continent scale field of vision.

2. have you heard of hypersonic recon stealth drones?

3. who the **** uses onboard GPS for a moving target.

4. do you even know how subs communicate? nobody forgot. This option doesn't exist.

5. there is no difference between a straggling ship and a non-straggling one in terms of sensor detection. if the missile is as ineffective as you think it is, then it's not psyops.

DF system requires constant data updates of which even satellite are not enough. It requires an entire ecosystem of surveilance to effectively supports it. All of which the US have a counter for.

I wouldn't count on it to pass the 1st defense so yeah it's still mostly psy-ops.

 

[antonius123]

The media tends to over sensationalize everything. Just look at the whole Afghan camouflage debacle.

The real truth however is not really. As shown by the USN sending 2 CSG. Nimitz & Reagan & the UK sending Lizzie.

First of all, you need to explain why technically Balistic ASBM like DF21 or DF26 is not feasible with current technology.

You havent explained it yet but too far playing with assumption

How the heck an IR even get to this? The DF doesn't have IR they still really on GPS for navigation.

Why according to you China can't put IR sensor and radar onboard of DF21D warhead? if they can put it on the much smaller missile like PL-10, PL-15, etc?

Well, you obviously need to do some research/study before commenting/debating on military technology

DF21D has IR sensor on board, not solely depend on GPS.

If China doesn't have the exact location of the enemy fleet them fancy "sensor" doesn't worth much.

Why according to you satellite, and OTH radar can't find the US ship location in SCS?

Alleged Satellite Images Shows U.S. Aircraft Carrier Surrounded By 7 Chinese Warships In The South China Sea
October 1, 2019 Latest News 54,498 Views



Satellite images reportedly showing the USS Ronald Reagan being flanked by several battleships in the South China Sea circulated on social media Saturday.

A Chinese Weibo social media user published a satellite image allegedly showing U.S Navy aircraft carrier the USS Ronald Reagan surrounded by at least seven other, purportedly Chinese, warships on 24 September.
https://fighterjetsworld.com/latest...hinese-warships-in-the-south-china-sea/18560/

CAP are necessary to intercept planes or missile coming in. They not only can intercept it 1st but they can still relay the information to their home fleet to evade or prepare for incoming fire. High speed doesn't mean shit if the enemy knows where it's coming from and are well prepared.

As explained above, could not engage 30 mach missile. No defence system can take down hypersonic missile at the moment.

Do tell me how a sidewinder are the same as a ballistic missile?

No, not about ballistic trajectory, it is about "real time issue" that you always brag for the missile problem to hit the target.

As asked above: explain why sidewinder, amraam, pl-15 can hit supersonic target without "real time issue"? I have answered this to you many times => "onboard sensors".

Check internet, how sidewinder have onboard sensor such as IR sensor

 

[FairAndUnbiased]

DF system requires constant data updates of which even satellite are not enough. It requires an entire ecosystem of surveilance to effectively supports it. All of which the US have a counter for.

I wouldn't count on it to pass the 1st defense so yeah it's still mostly psy-ops.

if its ineffective then its not psyop.

who told you it needs constant data updates? you? it needs data updates to travel 1 meter? 2 meters? it need data updates 1 second after takeoff?

Why according to you China can't put IR sensor and radar onboard of DF21D warhead? if they can put it on the much smaller missile like PL-10, PL-15, etc?

IR sensor will be blinded by reentry/hypersonic velocities. these are typically radar guided (internal sensor) or optically guided by satellites/stealthy recon drones.