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Britain bans Indian Muslim preacher

v9s:- Write something yourself rather than copying something off the Interweb in a debate that has moved beyond news posting. Nobody should be weak to rely on the arguments prepared by other people to make their point.
 
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v9s:- Write something yourself rather than copying something off the Interweb in a debate that has moved beyond news posting. Nobody should be weak to rely on the arguments prepared by other people to make their point.

It explains my point thoroughly. Ahh the wonders of the internet!
 
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v9s though don't people like me going against the verses, but your post deserve a reply & i will do that in a bit



Homosexuality is a natural behavior, only religious scriptures deny it been natural coz of their own homophobic & lesbophobic attitude, if religious people believe that God made all animals on the face of planet then they gotta accept that homosexuality is natural in many species of animals

- List of animals displaying homosexual behavior

...and that is why it's a behavior attributed to animals.

Homosexuality is a genetic defect in humans: More Evidence that Homosexuality is Genetic
 
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...and that is why it's a behavior attributed to animals.

Animals are lesser than you, seen with disgust even though evolution says we have evolved through an animal phase, and still are animals sharing greater than 90 percent of our genome with apes.

And I don't like animals, not in my home not even at the zoo but don't see them with disgust.

Homosexuality is a genetic defect in humans: More Evidence that Homosexuality is Genetic

The "gay gene" as it has been called "Defect" obviously because it is seen with disgust. At least read wiki on the issue of biology and orientation before commenting:-

Biology and sexual orientation - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Also might as well read the gay community's response to the half-truths and wrong conclusions as well:-

Is There a "Gay Gene"?

Anyways, topic has been diverted a lot. This is not meant to be this discussion. If you people have anything to add, please do so or I would close the thread so that nobody searching some tags later finds this thread and starts posting stuff on homosexuality and society.

Back to Square one of the debate.
 
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I think the homophobia amongst many religious people is nothing more than a projection of male insecurity stemming from a prude and perverted approach to sexuality in general that religions, especially Christianity and Islam, foster.

Instead of seeing sex as something natural and normal it is all clouded up with shame, guilt and doubt that lead to idiotic macho behavior that often includes homophobia.

It is a typical case of religious reasoning that something that they think shouldn't be, can't be. Therefore homosexuality is branded a "lifestyle choice" by Christians fanatics in the US, or a "defect" and "perversion" by their Muslim counterparts.
 
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Bring the conversation back to the original point of discussion, that is the non permission of Zakir Naik to enter Britain.

This is not a religious forum and such debates do not achieve anything.
 
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so why can;t this genetic defect exist among humans, atleast God made it, so the religious explanations & phobia is nothing more than lies

You are forgetting one thing. This life is a test. Everyone has their own test that they must face in this life.

You could go on arguing that why was someone born blind or why someone has a particular genetic disease, but it all boils down to this: everyone is expected to live life according to God's Law, and being homosexual is not a reason to be exempted from God's Law.

Some people never get married, but as per the Quran, they have to live a chaste life and suppress their sexual urges. Why should it be any different for homosexuals?

Since homosexuality is condemned in the Quran, if a homosexual man believes in God and his Laws, then he/she should behave accordingly.

If he doesn't believe, then he can go balls out all he wants :P

Edit: i won't argue this matter any further as it's getting offtopic
 
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Zakir Naik is an extremism preachorony ,thats how he should be branded.Good decision.:tup:


Well if this is called ban on freedom of speach then what you say about the MF who made the cartoons for our holy prophet, and whole Eourpe is supporting this that this is freedom of speach.
 
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You are forgetting one thing. This life is a test. Everyone has their own test that they must face in this life.

I had been dead for billions and billions of years before I was born, and had not suffered the slightest inconvenience from it. – Mark Twain

You could go on arguing that why was someone born blind or why someone has a particular genetic disease, but it all boils down to this: everyone is expected to live life according to God's Law, and being homosexual is not a reason to be exempted from God's Law.

genetic disease is God made so there's no point in showing phobia

Some people never get married, but as per the Quran, they have to live a chaste life and suppress their sexual urges. Why should it be any different for homosexuals?

absurd

Since homosexuality is condemned in the Quran, if a homosexual man believes in God and his Laws, then he/she should behave accordingly.

If he doesn't believe, then he can go balls out all he wants :P

I refuse to believe in a god who is the primary cause of conflict in the world, preaches racism, sexism, homophobia, and ignorance, and then sends me to hell if I’m ‘bad’. – Mike Fuhrman

anyways back to topic, aint replying more on this...
 
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You are forgetting one thing. This life is a test. Everyone has their own test that they must face in this life.

You could go on arguing that why was someone born blind or why someone has a particular genetic disease, but it all boils down to this: everyone is expected to live life according to God's Law, and being homosexual is not a reason to be exempted from God's Law.

Some people never get married, but as per the Quran, they have to live a chaste life and suppress their sexual urges. Why should it be any different for homosexuals?

Since homosexuality is condemned in the Quran, if a homosexual man believes in God and his Laws, then he/she should behave accordingly.

If he doesn't believe, then he can go balls out all he wants :P

That is your belief and I sincerely hope you are rewarded well for your doings in your Heaven or Hell. The word "your" is the important word in this discussion. Like someone mentioned above trying to achieve something out a religious discussion is by far impossible. Read and enlighten yourselves and try not to force opinions on others without factual evidence. It would work well with people that would rather fulfill themselves with one "Book", doesn't work too well on people who are in habit of answering their own tough questions.
 
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no one is hating any particular religion but its a fact that all people from a religion don't terrorize people but in one way or another they do sympathize the terrorists & see their religion been glorified by elimination of infidels,

I disagree with your opening statement, I am a devout muslim, I pray five times a day, I fast during the month of Ramzan, and I try and follow all Islamic teachings to the best of my abilities, however, make no mistake when I say this, I have absolutely NO sympathy for ANY terrorist group, no matter what their agenda might be, infact I have contributed to the fight against them and am proud of it. Now, how many terrorists do you think are there in the world, since I can't quote any census for terrorist, I will take a figure of 10 million as this is the largest possible number of terrorists in the world that I can comprehend. Now compare it with the 6.7 billion figure and what do you notice, that terrorists are a microscopic minority, now what about the peaceful people, the normal people, like you and me who's priorities are not killing innocents but giving time to our families and contributing positively to our country. Would it not be wrong to generalize the good people with the bad even though they are a microscopic minority ?
The terrorists are like salt in a bag of flour, very little as compared to the amount of flour but it leaves it's taste still.

then there are these kind of people(see video) who are easily said by Muslims that they do not represent Islam, for real Islam they (muslims) say that you need to read the book with tafseer(detail) because somehow God cannot communicate his message directly he needs men to decode his book for the understanding of common people yet it claims itself to be a great book with everything made easy for the understanding of people

Such people are entitled to hold their views however, I don't agree with their views, as for the need for Tafsir. Well, if all the topics and issues of everyday life were stuffed into the Quran, it would be many times it's own size and lets face it, it would be impossible to memorize or read completely for that matter, that's why the book does not delve into details leading to the need of Tafseer and for it to be read in light of the Sunnah.

the simple thing is some people refuse to believe in a invisible diety which will give him/her strength because they have seen that most of the time most of the time the invisible deity refuses to address him but some people consider God 'no response' as God Will, certainly two hands working are better than a thousand clasped for prayer :)

That is what faith is all about BUT, if the person opens his eyes and looks clearly, he will realize that he is blessed by his deity, for a normal average person: He is blessed with loving children, a wife who cares for him, the mother who brought him into this world and cared for him until he could take care of himself, a father who taught him how to handle and tackle life, a house, a means of income. Life is beautiful and everyone is blessed, you just need to think about it and be content with what you have.

just because Hitler had a Nazi Ideology or just because Stalin had Bolshevism on his mind dosen't means that you neglect the killings & suffering which have been brought over to humanity by religious people who justify their every act under the light of ancient books, The books & scriptures which are related to each other e.g. for Christains

I agree many unfair acts have been carried out in the name of religion but then again many unfair acts have also been carried out owing to other reasons like I mentioned, It is impossible for a cruel man to not be cruel whether he believes in God or not, because the violence is not in his God's words but the person himself.

  • When Osiris is said to bring his believers eternal life in Egyptian Heaven, contemplating the unutterable, indescribable glory of God we understand that as a myth
  • ,When the sacred rites of Demeter at Eleusis are described as bringing believers happiness in their eternal life, we understand that as a myth
  • When Vespatian's spittle healed a blind man, we understand that as a myth.
  • When Apollonius of Tyana raised a girl from death, we understand that as a myth
  • When Romulus is described as the Son of God, born of a virgin, we understand that as a myth.
  • When Alexander the Great is described as the Son of God, born of a mortal woman, we understand that as a myth
  • When Augustus is described as the Son of God, born of a mortal , we understand that as a myth
  • When Scipio Africanus is described as the Son of God, born of a mortal woman, we understand that as a myth.

So how come when Jesus is described as
  • the Son of God,
  • born of a mortal woman,
  • turning water into wine,
  • raising girls from the dead, and
  • healing blind men with his spittle,
  • setting it up so His believers got eternal life in Heaven contemplating the unutterable, indescribable glory of God, and off to Hell—for the bad folks...
how come that's not a myth?

The very reason these things are myths is because they are myths, unlike in Hazrat Issa's case, where people were a testament to his miracles, they have been reported by people.

if i am wrong about god existing (which i think is highly improbable), the worst that can happen, according to most religions, is that end up in hell. This affects exactly one person, me! If religious people are wrong, then the millions of deaths, and incidents of discrimination, bigotry, sexism, oppression, mis-education and intolerance caused by faith and religion, are unnecessary. I'd rather err on the side of caution, evidence, and common sense

Again, we believers also want to live a peaceful life, I would call millions of deaths a slight exaggeration, around the world millions of believers of different faiths live together without any serious problems, they interact with each other as social equals, just because a couple of illiterate scum bags have a problem with this, doesn't mean everybody does, again I would quote personal experience, I have many Christian friends, A dozen or so Hindu friends as well, I also made friends with many British during my stay there, I felt did not feel compelled to harm any one of them just because they followed a different faith, and neither did they.

Prove it :)
but before you do that Stalin killed for his power & delusional idea of Bolshevism not for his atheism :)

Luckily I recently heard of a violent Atheist who met his end, Mr. Eugène Terre'Blanche.

Like I said, Atheists are people too, we have the same instincts, DNA and everything. Just stopping to believe in God does not change them, in fact it removes boundaries one would be keen to observe if he was a believer, I choose not to kill my neighbour for his property out of fear of God's wrath, I don't go anywhere near his wife because I know God is watching. If I don't believe in God, who is to stop me from carrying out these shameful acts ? I could easily get with his wife in the cover of the night and I can kill him, get rid of his body in the nearest convenient water body, with nobody knowing it was me.

Belief in God is very important for man, without it, this world would fall into a chaotic spiral from which it would never be able to recover, religion acts as a counter weight to our animal instincts. With no counter weight, where would we stand ?
 
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Relevant and topic specific



Maldivian renounces Islam, gets attacked by Zakir Naik audience


Haveeru Online - Maldivian renounces Islam, gets attacked by Zakir Naik audience



5002e06eba5dd23d0bc798508cab2607-tip.jpg

Mohamed Nazim (left/standing), who declared his atheist status to the public, questions Dr Zakir Naik during the Q&A session.


MALE, May 29, 2010 (HNS) – A Maldivian man was assaulted Friday evening, after he declared his atheist status to the public during the Q&A session of a lecture given by visiting Indian scholar Dr Zakir Naik.

Mohamed Nazim, 37, said although he was born to a practicing Muslim family and his parents taught him Islam, he was “struggling to believe in religions,” and asked Naik about his “verdict in Islam.”

“Dr Zakir Naik. I am a Maldivian. I am still struggling to believe in religion. That is why I just came to the front of this row. I was born a Maldivian. My parents taught me the religion of Islam. They are good practitioners, actually. I read a lot of books. I have read the translation of Quran. Yet, I still do not believe in a religion. So what do you say, [about] my verdict in Islam? Because Maldives is definitely a Muslim state,” Nazim asked.

When the moderator asked to repeat the question, he said, “My question is I am a Maldivian. I do not believe in religion. What do you think my verdict would be, since Maldives is 100 percent Muslim, as many claim? But I do not believe so.”

Nazim’s question sparked comments of hatred from an angry crowd of around 11,000 with many calling to kill him and attack him, while Naik was answering the question.

Several people rushed towards Nazim, who was sitting at a back row after moving away from the microphone, as an official of the Islamic Ministry tried to escort him out. Police, however, came between Nazim and the crowd and escorted him into custody.



“I held his hand and escorted him away from the ground, when people came towards him. When a person came jumping at him, I held him by the waist. At that moment, I lost the grip. Police intervened and took him into custody,” the official said.

A Police media official said Nazim received several minor injuries. He is in custody at an undisclosed location, the official added Saturday afternoon.

When Police took Nazim to the second block of nearby police building Iskandharu Koshi, the crowd gathered outside the place and demanded his handover. They shouted anti-atheism slogans and called for Nazim’s beheading.

The constitution stipulates Maldives citizens must be Muslims.

Responding to Nazim’s question, Naik said Nazim should ask the government about his status, as he was claiming that he was a non-Muslim, despite the government telling Naik that Maldives is a 100 percent Muslims country. When Naik asked Nazim “are you a Muslim?” he replied “I am not.”

When Nazim asked “Does the [penalty] of apostasy come on me?” and “Do you think I was a Muslim because I was born to Muslim parents?” Naik said that according to Prophetic traditions, every child is born as a Muslim and that a Muslim is one who submits his/her will to God. In Islam, death penalty should not necessarily be evoked on every person who leaves Islam, but to those who propagate the non-Islamic faith and speak against Islam, he added.



Naik stressed that Nazim was “deviated from Islam” by reading the “wrong books.” He requested Nazim to read the correct books on Islam and translation of Quran and said that by the grace of God, he will come back to the right path.

When Naik asked about the part of the Quran, which Nazim did not agree with, he challenged the scholar saying “first of all I have to find a reason to read the Quran to believe in a religion.” He also said he has to study all the religions to find out which is the best religion for him.



Naik said in response, “if you want to eat food, you want to taste all the food, and then you will say which is the best food to have.” However, when Nazim said “no,” Naik declared, “you are an illogical man.”



“The problem with you is that you are extra-smart. Being smart is good, [but] being extra-smart is not good. So that means you are changing your logic. If you have particular fixed principles, you should always be the same. Why do [you] change your principle for food and you are changing your principle for religion? Why you are changing? So you are saying that you require a reason to read [Quran],” Naik said.

When Naik finished answering Nazim’s question by saying, “Hope I answered your question,” Nazim said that Naik did not answer his question.

Naik, however, came back to the microphone and advised the audience to be patient and to maintain Islamic principles, when the crowd began to shout angry comments at Nazim. State Minister of Islamic Affairs Sheikh Mohamed Shaheem Ali Saeed also advised the audience to be patient.
 
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