Breaking News :- RFI Issued for seven next generation Corvettes.

[Agent_47]

Is there an RFP for the 16 ASW ships? I'ld like to compare all three.

Project 28 -> 4 Under construction + 8 Planned
ASW Shallow water craft -> 16 Planned
NGMV -> 6 Planned
NGC -> 7 Planned

41 corvettes by 2032.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Future_of_the_Indian_Navy (I just edited )

I like this design, It fulfills the RFI.

 

[Penguin]

What is this "Underwater Telephone" in RFI? @Penguin

A means to communicate with submarines.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Communication_with_submarines
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Underwater_telephone

http://submarinecommunications.weebly.com/underwater-telephone.html
http://www.dosits.org/people/communications/transmitdataunderwater/

Thuis should be design and developed in India by ONLY INDIAN COMPANIES.

Yeah, that is why you get e.g. Samsung Thales Ltd, which is a South Korean company, to deliver stuff to ROKN, rather than Thales or Thales Netherlands.
http://www.army-guide.com/eng/firm3001.html

@Penguin could the P28 b the base platform for both NGC and NGMV?

Maybe NGC, not NGMV

Project 28 -> 4 Under construction + 8 Planned
ASW Shallow water craft -> 16 Planned
NGMV -> 6 Planned
NGC -> 7 Planned

41 corvettes by 2032.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Future_of_the_Indian_Navy (I just edited )

I doubt the Shallow water ASW craft and NGMV really qualify as corvette. Just like the Soviet Nanuchka class being called corvette whereas in other navies a similar sized (<= 700 ton) ship is called a Fast Attack Craft - Missile.

 

[Ankit Kumar 002]

Is there an RFP for the 16 ASW ships? I'ld like to compare all three.

RFP still not found but

An EOI by GRSE http://www.grse.nic.in/eoi/EOI_ASW_SWC_R1.pdf


http://www.tribuneindia.com/2013/20131226/main5.htm
http://www.naval-technology.com/new...er-to-procure-asw-shallow-water-craft-4297624

I would be vary of the aesthetic appeal of the Visby as the focus is to replace the Veer FSG. The
Blohm+Voss Class 130 Corvette

Yes , either it or the Russian Project 20382 and its derivatives.

The RFI mentions needs for ASW capability too , and then support for a sub 6 ton helicopter.

Personally , if GSL wins it , we can see something like a Saryu Class OPV with 8 cell ULVM and VL MICA or Barak 1.

But the Veer Class is to be replaced by Next Generation Missile Vessels , which will have specifications same as above , minus the ASW warfare suite , helicopter support , and its called for a higher speed.

Project 28 -> 4 Under construction + 8 Planned
ASW Shallow water craft -> 16 Planned
NGMV -> 6 Planned
NGC -> 7 Planned

41 corvettes by 2032.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Future_of_the_Indian_Navy (I just edited )

I like this design, It fulfills the RFI.

The NGMV will be atleast a class of 12 vessels , as they are to replace the Veer Class.

And on Ada class ,well our ship will see 8 cell ULVM and VLS based SR SAM. The RAM is more of a CIWS.

 

[Nanga Tarzan]

I wish were not as dependent on imports for our military hardware needs :-(

 

[Agent_47]

The NGMV will be atleast a class of 12 vessels , as they are to replace the Veer Class.

Replacement numbers doesn't coincide with current numbers.

And on Ada class ,well our ship will see 8 cell ULVM and VLS based SR SAM. The RAM is more of a CIWS.

For IN all SR SAMs will be point defense also, Just like MICA VL. For this DRDO QRSAM will start testing very soon.
It will be fitted with both NGMVs and NGCs.

 

[migflug]

NGMV:

NGC:

NGC is much bigger than NGMV. And visby class fulfills only ASW shallow water craft of about 700 tonnes.

 

[Ankit Kumar 002]

NGMV:
View attachment 342286
View attachment 342287
View attachment 342288

NGC:
View attachment 34228

NGC is much bigger than NGMV. And visby class fulfills only ASW shallow water craft of about 700 tonnes.

The major difference in weapon systems of NGC and NGMV is

1. NGC calls for a proper SAM compared to NGMV requiring a Point Defence System.
2. NGC calls for a full fledged ASW suite ,compared to NGMV which is purely ASuW based.
3.NGC calls for support of a sub 6 ton helicopter capable of deploying weapons while NGMV doesn't call for helicopter operations.
4. Further the total crew of NGC is almost 50% more than that of NGMV.

It is safe to say

1. NGC is a light multirole frigate.
2. NGMV is a dedicated Missile Corvette.
3. ASW corvette is a Shallow Water ASW Craft.

 

[Penguin]

1. NGC calls for a proper SAM compared to NGMV requiring a Point Defence System.

This is an artifical distinction. Take, for example, Sea Sparrow. This started out as PDMS, but it is widely regarded 'a proper SAM'. You also need to be specific at what you consider 'a proper SAM'.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/RIM-7_Sea_Sparrow#Point_defense_missile_system_.28PDMS.29

The term SAM just means surface to air missile. Like the terms CIWS, Point Defence MIssile System is misunderstood. Point defence just means "active protection of a single asset". As opposed to e.g. Area Air Defence, which includes - in the naval setting - consort ship protection i.e. long(er) range coverage. Any ship mounted SAM is in essence a PDMS, just some can also provide AAW due to longer range. Here, one should consider that the range of the newer ESSM aproaches that of the older SM1MR. The former is a PDMS (which AAW covered by SM2MR and SM6), while the latter was an AAW asset.

In both RFPs there is a requirement for a SAM with AMD capability. There is no specific requirement for a long range system but one RFP leaves open the possibility of a longer range SAM while the other more explicitly limits the SAM to self-defence. Personally, I don't see a need for anything with more range than ESSM on a corvette, since this also mean a step up in sensors and hence cost. There is no difference in sensor requirements between the RFPs to suggest that one would have a longer range SAM. From the point of view of production, maintenance and logistics, it would actually make sense to have common systems (greater production volume > lower cost; ease of maintenance > lower cost, unified operator training > lower cost).

 

[Ankit Kumar 002]

This is an artifical distinction. Take, for example, Sea Sparrow. This started out as PDMS, but it is widely regarded 'a proper SAM'. You also need to be specific at what you consider 'a proper SAM'.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/RIM-7_Sea_Sparrow#Point_defense_missile_system_.28PDMS.29

The term SAM just means surface to air missile. Like the terms CIWS, Point Defence MIssile System is misunderstood. Point defence just means "active protection of a single asset". As opposed to e.g. Area Air Defence, which includes - in the naval setting - consort ship protection i.e. long(er) range coverage. Any ship mounted SAM is in essence a PDMS, just some can also provide AAW due to longer range. Here, one should consider that the range of the newer ESSM aproaches that of the older SM1MR. The former is a PDMS (which AAW covered by SM2MR and SM6), while the latter was an AAW asset.

In both RFPs there is a requirement for a SAM with AMD capability. There is no specific requirement for a long range system but one RFP leaves open the possibility of a longer range SAM while the other more explicitly limits the SAM to self-defence. Personally, I don't see a need for anything with more range than ESSM on a corvette, since this also mean a step up in sensors and hence cost. There is no difference in sensor requirements between the RFPs to suggest that one would have a longer range SAM. From the point of view of production, maintenance and logistics, it would actually make sense to have common systems (greater production volume > lower cost; ease of maintenance > lower cost, unified operator training > lower cost).

Correct.

But on NGMV , its strictly focusing on Point Defence or self defence , but in the NGC it doesn't mention about PDMS.

I feel this is because, the NGC is intended to be used as escort vessel too, having a SAM with a range of 25-50 kilometre, while NGMV will likely have 5-10 km range system, because its talking about engaging mach 3 anti ship missiles, I feel that commonality as you say can be achieved. Barak 1 or VL MICA. Both can do.

 

[jha]

Looks more like a light frigate than a corvette.Modified Kamrota class should fit the bill.

 

[Gessler]

Looks more like a light frigate than a corvette.Modified Kamrota class should fit the bill.

GRSE supposedly offered a 2,000-ton modified Kamorta design in the Philippine Navy tender. I wonder if the same design can be utilized here.

 

[jha]

GRSE supposedly offered a 2,000-ton modified Kamorta design in the Philippine Navy tender. I wonder if the same design can be utilized here.

Yes... And frankly, I would prefer that design over imported one.

 

[Penguin]

Correct.

But on NGMV , its strictly focusing on Point Defence or self defence , but in the NGC it doesn't mention about PDMS.

I feel this is because, the NGC is intended to be used as escort vessel too, having a SAM with a range of 25-50 kilometre, while NGMV will likely have 5-10 km range system, because its talking about engaging mach 3 anti ship missiles, I feel that commonality as you say can be achieved. Barak 1 or VL MICA. Both can do.

But if you have NGC with a longer range system, and NGMV with Barak1 or VL Mica, there is no commonality between these ships. I'm thinking more in terms of e.g. 15km (some say 25-30km, yet others 40km) Maitri QRSAM/SR-SAM. An independently homing missile (RF or IR) in any case, rather than CLOS or SACLOS (which makes it also suitable as Barak 1 replacement in other units further down the line) and/or Barak 8 complement. Saves on fire control equipment too.

http://www.indiandefensenews.in/2015/04/india-developing-its-own-short-range.html
http://www.livefistdefence.com/2015/02/stalled-srsam-parrikar-briefed-twice-in.html

https://defence.pk/threads/the-need-of-maitri-sam.369152/
https://defence.pk/threads/india-begins-2-2-billion-qr-sam-procurement-effort.189754/

For comparison, ground launch MICA VL (on which Maitri is based) does about 20km range and 9-11km height. As opposed to 50km for the air launch variant
http://www.armyrecognition.com/fran...heet_specifications_description_pictures.html
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/MICA_(missile)

 

[MKC]

@PARIKRAMA @Penguin @Abingdonboy @anant_s @Gessler

This http://tenders.gov.in/viewtenddoc.asp?tid=del717833&wno=1&td=TD-title is the tender for

6 Next generation missile vessels. They were not have a helicopter.

Clearly , this is a new project in addition to that.



Well I feel these 7 are more likely to be derived from Saryu class OPV.

I think it will be similar to Kamorta after removing RBUs.
What is difference between Talwar class & NGC...?

Is there an RFP for the 16 ASW ships? I'ld like to compare all three.

I doubt the Shallow water ASW craft and NGMV really qualify as corvette. Just like the Soviet Nanuchka class being called corvette whereas in other navies a similar sized (<= 700 ton) ship is called a Fast Attack Craft - Missile.

We can say torpedo boat with RBU & 2xHMG.

RFP still not found but

An EOI by GRSE http://www.grse.nic.in/eoi/EOI_ASW_SWC_R1.pdf


http://www.tribuneindia.com/2013/20131226/main5.htm
http://www.naval-technology.com/new...er-to-procure-asw-shallow-water-craft-4297624



Yes , either it or the Russian Project 20382 and its derivatives.

The RFI mentions needs for ASW capability too , and then support for a sub 6 ton helicopter.

Personally , if GSL wins it , we can see something like a Saryu Class OPV with 8 cell ULVM and VL MICA or Barak 1.

But the Veer Class is to be replaced by Next Generation Missile Vessels , which will have specifications same as above , minus the ASW warfare suite , helicopter support , and its called for a higher speed.



The NGMV will be atleast a class of 12 vessels , as they are to replace the Veer Class.

And on Ada class ,well our ship will see 8 cell ULVM and VLS based SR SAM. The RAM is more of a CIWS.

I don't think Saryu class can fit for these specifications that can fit for NGMVs as compliment for both is same but in case of NGC compliment is 160 so we can expect bigger ship that Kamorta if GRSE doesn't win.
I said compare it with Talwar class then we can predict displacement.

GRSE supposedly offered a 2,000-ton modified Kamorta design in the Philippine Navy tender. I wonder if the same design can be utilized here.

There requirement was almost of a corvette but it seems lower end of Frigate.
Similar to Godavari class
Displacement:

• Standard:3,600 tonnes
• Full load: 3,850 tonnes

Length: 126.4 m
Beam: 14.5 m
Draught: 4.5 m
Speed: 27 knots (50 km/h)
Range: 4,500 nmi (8,300 km) at 12 knots (22 km/h)
Complement: 313 (incl. 40 officers, 13 air crew)
Sensors

• 1 Signaal air search radar
• MR-310U Angara air/surface
• 2 Signaal ZW06 or Don Kay navigation radars
• MR-103 GFCS Fire Control radar
• EL/M-2221 STGR Fire control radar (Barak SAM)
• MPZ-310 radar (SS-N-4 SAM)

Electronic warfare & decoys:

• Selenia INS-3 (Bharat Ajanta and Elettronica TQN-2) used for ESM/ECM
• 2 × chaff/flare launchers
• 1 × Graesby G738 towed torpedo decoy

Armament:

• 4 × SS-N-2D Styx AShM
• 24 × Barak SAM (3 × 8 cell VLS units)
• 1 × AK-725 twin-barreled 57 mm gun
• 4 × AK-630 6-barreled 30 mm gatling
• 2 × triple 324 mm (12.8 in) tubes (Whitehead A 244S or Indian NST 58 torpedoes)

Aircraft carried: 2 × Sea King, HAL Dhruv or HAL Chetak helicopters

In this case only 1 helicopter is removed & 4 SSM added.
& in Godavari class SSM is 24 Barak 1 & here we can expect at least 16 Brarak 8 or 16 MICA.
Number of CIWS is not clear but we can expect 4 vs 2 AK-630.

 

[Penguin]

I think it will be similar to Kamorta after removing RBUs.

That could be a possibility.

What is difference between Talwar class & NGC...?

Talwar displacement:

• 4,035 t full load
• 3,850 t standard

NGC displacement:

• "as per design"

Talwar is 124.8 m
NGC is <120 m

Talwar crew is 180 (18 officers)
NGC crew is 158 (21 officers)

Talwar range and speed

• max speed 32 knots
  
• 4,850 mi (4,210 nmi) at 14 kn (26 km/h; 16 mph)
• 1,600 mi (1,400 nmi) at 30 kn (56 km/h; 35 mph)

NGC range and speed:

• max speed 27+ kn
  
• 4,000+ nmi at 'sustained economical speed' (12-14 kn?)
  
• 1,200 nmi at 25 kn (= max sustained speed)

Talwar endurance: 30 days
NGC endurance: 14+ days

In short, Talwar is a bigger ship, with greater speed, range and endurance.
(Sorry, can't be bothered with weapons and sensor comparison)