Breaking China's DF-21D missile kill chain: US expert

[j20blackdragon]

2. bring all your 1600 F16 on together with your 200 B52 blah blah blah; where can you find an airbase with such a huge fleet? You are so novice and becoming such a joke!

if he is stupid enough to say bringing the entire american air borne fleet to your recomended bases in japan and s korea within a combat period, this is the most funny strategic comments from self-claimed vet. Did you guys mop the floor for the GIs or picking up trash from their toilets?

It's pretty obvious that a lot of these guys have no concept of logistics.

It's very easy to list out the entire USAF like this is a video game.

But not so simple when you realize you don't have any airbases in the region.

 

[Audio]

there are multiple blind spots dude!

True, but you can always reposition the ship. The 2 smaller ships have arrays in places so that a slight turn brings a blind spot in view. Admittedly, the carrier is drawn with only 1 emitter and it is the hardest to turn. It will probably have more, makes no sense to leave the biggest ship the least protected, though this is just my speculation.

 

[Genesis]

It's pretty obvious that a lot of these guys have no concept of logistics.

It's very easy to list out the entire USAF like this is a video game.

But not so simple when you realize you don't have any airbases in the region.

well let's not be too content, the US is at our door steps. Sure they are not safe so close to us, but they are still close. Mean while we got no way of reaching the US and no base near the US.

Let's not be like Philippines, who's always like yea we may lose a battle but never the war. And how they will destroy our ships close to their land and stuff like that. That's not the thinking of a potential super power.

 

[j20blackdragon]

well let's not be too content, the US is at our door steps. Sure they are not safe so close to us, but they are still close. Mean while we got no way of reaching the US and no base near the US.

Here's one way.

Chinese Military Aviation: Attack Aircraft II

New Chinese bomber a flying wing? - The DEW Line

 

[jhungary]

The PLAAF and 2nd Artillery would have shut down the USAF a long time ago.

You think China is dumb enough to wait around for several months (like Iraq) while the US brings 1,500 F-16s along her border?

Really love you Chinese selectively reply part of my question, turn it and make it think I am wrong, when you disregard the titular thing in my post.

First, answer me this.

How are you supposed to have 100 J-31 making bomb run in the same time? and drop 1000 bomb on or AB Class destroyer to overwhelm them?? - Answer is, YOU CAN'T

going back to the focal point, which is how do we put all of our combat aircraft in Asia.

How many airbase do you know we own and we can use in the pacific? We own 5 Airbase in Japan and Korea 2 airbase in Guam and Marianas, we have agreement to use all the airbase from 7 of our friendly nation to launch our aircraft and service them. They are Japan, Korea, Taiwan, Philippine, Thailand, Afghanistan (until 2014, after that unsure) and your friend, Pakistan. Do you know how many air base were all those and how many aircraft they can hold??

Let's see

Japan Air Self Defence Force Air Bases (via Treaty of Mutual Cooperation and Security between the United States and Japan )

-Chitose Air Base
-Komatsu Air Base
-Ibaraki Airport Air Base
-Nyutabaru Air Base
-Tsuiki Air Field
-Naha Air Base
-Iruma Air Base
-Miho-Yonago Airport
-Hamamatsu Air Base
-Matsushima Air Field
-Shizuhama Air Base
-Hōfu Air Field
-Ashiya Air Field

US Airbases in Japan
-Misawa Air Base
-Kadena Air Base
-Yokota Air Base

Korean Air Force Bases (via U.S.–South Korea Status of Forces Agreement)

-Gimhae International Airport
-Seoul Air Base
-Wonju Airport
-Jang-ji dong Air Base
-Cheongju International Airport
-Gangneung Air Base
-Gwangju Airport
-Daegu International Airport
-Yecheon Air Base
-Gunsan Airport

US airbase operate in South Korea
-Kunsan Air Base
-Osan Air Base

ROCAF Air Base ( via Foreign Assistance Act, Mutual Security Act)

-Taitung Air Base
-Hsinchu Air Base
-Chiayi AIr Base
-Tainan Air Base
-Pingtung Air Base
-Hualien Air Base
-New Taipei Air Base
-Pingtung Air Base

Philippine Air Force (via Force agreement 2012)

-Villamor Airbase
-Basa Airbase
-Clark Air Base
-Fernando Airbase
-Danilo Atienza Airbase
-Wallace Air Station
-Benito Ebuen Air Base
-Edwin Andrews Air Base
-Rajah Buayan Air Base
-Lumbia Airport

Royal Thai Air Force Air Bases ( via Manila pact)

-Korat Royal Thai Air Force Base
-Don Muang Royal Thai Air Force Base
-Don Mueang International Airport
-Ubon Royal Thai Air Force Base
-Takhli Royal Thai Air Force Base

Afghanistan Air Force Bases (well, we still in Afghanistan.....)

-Kabul International Airport
-Kandahar International Airport
-Shindand Air Base
-Herat International Airport
-Mazar-i-Sharif Airport
-Camp Bastion
-Bagram Airfield

Pakistan Air Force Air bases ( Not mention, see below)

-PAF Base Mushaf
-PAF Base Masroor
-PAF Base Rafiqui
-PAF Base Peshawar
-PAF Base Samungli
-PAF Base Mianwali
-PAF Base Minhas
-PAF Base Chaklala
-PAF Base Faisal
-PAF Base Risalpur
-PAF Base Shahbaz

United States Air Force Pacific Air Base

-Andersen airbase
-Hickam Field
-Elmendorf Field

Discount Pakistan, which also Chinese Allied, if war broke out tomorrow, there are 61 airbase we can use by invoking those defense pact I mentioned before. How many aircraft can 61 airbase in total can hold?? I wonder. Let's do a small estimation

JASDF have about 791 aircraft in service with 13 Airforce bases on their disposal. So, on average each air base can take on, umm, I don't know 61 aircraft.

So, how many aircraft can 61 airbase took on??

We could more than accommodate all our airforce in Asia. it's doable. But will we do it? No.
Does that sound familiar?? Oh, yea, I believe it's the same point of, oh yes, you can use 100 J-31 to attack a single destroyer?? LOL

Well, at least, there are higher chance all those country which bounded by treaty to lend us our airbase than you launch 100 J-31 and successfully sunk our single destroyer.

And one more question, How do you know we are not deployed there already?? YOU WILL NEVER KNOW LOL

You messed up the whole thing! what are you arguing? what do you have to identify? your own ship? Our ship? your missile? our missile? through your own radar system?

If the us is on an assault it will be running a battle group which is easily identifiable up in air or coastal radars

we'll aim at the most expensive and most menacing while taking all others within our range

You have no clue of what you are mumbling and fumbling for an answer

1. we have developed a comprehesive land sea air cosmo cyber defensive system
2. bring all your 1600 F16 on together with your 200 B52 blah blah blah; where can you find an airbase with such a huge fleet? You are so novice and becoming such a joke!
3, and as we are talking all along the thread we are not trying to bring just one $1 billion destroyer down, kid.

we can fire the bombs /missiles from land, underwater, air, sea! what mode of launching do you prefer?

Gambit already said what I want to say. Man, you have a very serious comprehension problem.

Can your radar, any radar, by looking at it, can tell you the different between an aircraft carrier and a cargo ship? No. YOU CAN ONLY SEE A VERY LARGE SHIP IN YOUR RADAR.

What if our carrier towing a cargo ship in the back, and upon hearing your launch of ballistic missile, on your missile terminal approach, we release our tow and move away. Your missile will still think the cargo ship (Decoy) is the carrier and hit it.

This is just one of the point I saw why DOD do not put anything to it.

Point 1 is just random ranting no point to counter

Point 2, How do we accommodate our whole air force's combat aircraft in Asia is discussed before, in case you are still so thick on the result, yes, we can put 3600 combat aircraft on the 61 friendly airbases. 3600 > 2000 combat aircraft I mentioned.........So your point 2 is gone.

Point 3. You can bring down a destroyer with 100 J-31. How many of those you are willing to lose?? Your country don't have 1000 + gen 4 or above aircraft. I am not saying you can't, I never said you can't bring down a single destroyer with 100 of your most advanced aircraft, but is it worth it?? That's mean you have 100 less aircraft focus on one task and lift guard of your hard target. Do remember, we also have cruise missile too.

If you are dumb enough to put 100 J-31 on 1 single ship, we are dumb enough to put 2000 aircraft in Asia, which is doable.

Finally. the guy I am referring to on my last post talked about Free fall bomb only. He specifically mean the word Glided bomb because they are cheap. Hence I specifically talked about unguided bomb. yes, you can launch missile or cruiser missile, but they will not be cheap.

Read what other people wrote and what I reply first, before you post your reply

That is not what he was talking about. He was referring to the warhead's radar, which is limited in capabilities compared to larger systems. You have a reading comprehension problem.


The man is a combat vet, conscript reject.

lol thanks for the add-on

man, these chinese member are sure thick as hell.

 

[Genesis]

Really love you Chinese selectively reply part of my question, turn it and make it think I am wrong, when you disregard the titular thing in my post.

First, answer me this.

How are you supposed to have 100 J-31 making bomb run in the same time? and drop 1000 bomb on or AB Class destroyer to overwhelm them?? - Answer is, YOU CAN'T

going back to the focal point, which is how do we put all of our combat aircraft in Asia.

How many airbase do you know we own and we can use in the pacific? We own 5 Airbase in Japan and Korea 2 airbase in Guam and Marianas, we have agreement to use all the airbase from 7 of our friendly nation to launch our aircraft and service them. They are Japan, Korea, Taiwan, Philippine, Thailand, Afghanistan (until 2014, after that unsure) and your friend, Pakistan. Do you know how many air base were all those and how many aircraft they can hold??

Let's see

Japan Air Self Defence Force Air Bases (via Treaty of Mutual Cooperation and Security between the United States and Japan )

-Chitose Air Base
-Komatsu Air Base
-Ibaraki Airport Air Base
-Nyutabaru Air Base
-Tsuiki Air Field
-Naha Air Base
-Iruma Air Base
-Miho-Yonago Airport
-Hamamatsu Air Base
-Matsushima Air Field
-Shizuhama Air Base
-Hōfu Air Field
-Ashiya Air Field

US Airbases in Japan
-Misawa Air Base
-Kadena Air Base
-Yokota Air Base

Korean Air Force Bases (via U.S.–South Korea Status of Forces Agreement)

-Gimhae International Airport
-Seoul Air Base
-Wonju Airport
-Jang-ji dong Air Base
-Cheongju International Airport
-Gangneung Air Base
-Gwangju Airport
-Daegu International Airport
-Yecheon Air Base
-Gunsan Airport

US airbase operate in South Korea
-Kunsan Air Base
-Osan Air Base

ROCAF Air Base ( via Foreign Assistance Act, Mutual Security Act)

-Taitung Air Base
-Hsinchu Air Base
-Chiayi AIr Base
-Tainan Air Base
-Pingtung Air Base
-Hualien Air Base
-New Taipei Air Base
-Pingtung Air Base

Philippine Air Force (via Force agreement 2012)

-Villamor Airbase
-Basa Airbase
-Clark Air Base
-Fernando Airbase
-Danilo Atienza Airbase
-Wallace Air Station
-Benito Ebuen Air Base
-Edwin Andrews Air Base
-Rajah Buayan Air Base
-Lumbia Airport

Royal Thai Air Force Air Bases ( via Manila pact)

-Korat Royal Thai Air Force Base
-Don Muang Royal Thai Air Force Base
-Don Mueang International Airport
-Ubon Royal Thai Air Force Base
-Takhli Royal Thai Air Force Base

Afghanistan Air Force Bases (well, we still in Afghanistan.....)

-Kabul International Airport
-Kandahar International Airport
-Shindand Air Base
-Herat International Airport
-Mazar-i-Sharif Airport
-Camp Bastion
-Bagram Airfield

Pakistan Air Force Air bases ( Not mention, see below)

-PAF Base Mushaf
-PAF Base Masroor
-PAF Base Rafiqui
-PAF Base Peshawar
-PAF Base Samungli
-PAF Base Mianwali
-PAF Base Minhas
-PAF Base Chaklala
-PAF Base Faisal
-PAF Base Risalpur
-PAF Base Shahbaz

United States Air Force Pacific Air Base

-Andersen airbase
-Hickam Field
-Elmendorf Field

Discount Pakistan, which also Chinese Allied, if war broke out tomorrow, there are 61 airbase we can use by invoking those defense pact I mentioned before. How many aircraft can 61 airbase in total can hold?? I wonder. Let's do a small estimation

JASDF have about 791 aircraft in service with 13 Airforce bases on their disposal. So, on average each air base can take on, umm, I don't know 61 aircraft.

So, how many aircraft can 61 airbase took on??

We could more than accommodate all our airforce in Asia. it's doable. But will we do it? No.
Does that sound familiar?? Oh, yea, I believe it's the same point of, oh yes, you can use 100 J-31 to attack a single destroyer?? LOL

Well, at least, there are higher chance all those country which bounded by treaty to lend us our airbase than you launch 100 J-31 and successfully sunk our single destroyer.



Gambit already said what I want to say. Man, you have a very serious comprehension problem.

Can your radar, any radar, by looking at it, can tell you the different between an aircraft carrier and a cargo ship? No. YOU CAN ONLY SEE A VERY LARGE SHIP IN YOUR RADAR.

What if our carrier towing a cargo ship in the back, and upon hearing your launch of ballistic missile, on your missile terminal approach, we release our tow and move away. Your missile will still think the cargo ship (Decoy) is the carrier and hit it.

This is just one of the point I saw why DOD do not put anything to it.

Point 1 is just random ranting no point to counter

Point 2, How do we accommodate our whole air force's combat aircraft in Asia is discussed before, in case you are still so thick on the result, yes, we can put 3600 combat aircraft on the 61 friendly airbases. 3600 > 2000 combat aircraft I mentioned.........So your point 2 is gone.

Point 3. You can bring down a destroyer with 100 J-31. How many of those you are willing to lose?? Your country don't have 1000 + gen 4 or above aircraft. I am not saying you can't, I never said you can't bring down a single destroyer with 100 of your most advanced aircraft, but is it worth it?? That's mean you have 100 less aircraft focus on one task and lift guard of your hard target. Do remember, we also have cruise missile too.

If you are dumb enough to put 100 J-31 on 1 single ship, we are dumb enough to put 2000 aircraft in Asia, which is doable.

Finally. the guy I am referring to on my last post talked about Free fall bomb only. He specifically mean the word Glided bomb because they are cheap. Hence I specifically talked about unguided bomb. yes, you can launch missile or cruiser missile, but they will not be cheap.

Read what other people wrote and what I reply first, before you post your reply



lol thanks for the add-on

man, these chinese member are sure thick as hell.

So in one post you reply that you were part Chinese and then you say some of the people consider you more Chinese than other China born Chinese.

well, since this is a post that attacks all Chinese does this include you? If it doesn't then those people either is blind or don't know who the Chinese are.

So on the one hand you list airbases and says 100 J-31s attacking a single target is stupid, and yet you won't pass over this silly argument and use it to reinforce your argument on 3000 aircraft in Asia. But I'm assuming you are being sarcastic, otherwise it's just sad.

US is more powerful than China is a fact, and can defeat China on the Seas no problem, I don't think anyone who knows American Navy will dispute this.

Though I got to say, sometimes you must think all Chinese are just stupid, cause your carrier and radar point makes Chinese scientists seem like all they do is stare at the sky for a couple of hours.

 

[jhungary]

So in one post you reply that you were part Chinese and then you say some of the people consider you more Chinese than other China born Chinese.

well, since this is a post that attacks all Chinese does this include you? If it doesn't then those people either is blind or don't know who the Chinese are.

So on the one hand you list airbases and says 100 J-31s attacking a single target is stupid, and yet you won't pass over this silly argument and use it to reinforce your argument on 3000 aircraft in Asia. But I'm assuming you are being sarcastic, otherwise it's just sad.

US is more powerful than China is a fact, and can defeat China on the Seas no problem, I don't think anyone who knows American Navy will dispute this.

Though I got to say, sometimes you must think all Chinese are just stupid, cause your carrier and radar point makes Chinese scientists seem like all they do is stare at the sky for a couple of hours.

First of all, keyword again is "some of the people" I never said I am more Chinese than other Chinese, some people think I do, I do not specify which people and whether or not am I agree on said statement. So, better luck next time.

Do I consider myself Chinese? Didn't I answered you already by you quoting me on another post? What is the first word I said?

By the way, I am the opposite of what you claim to be, I am a westerner, half Chinese-Vietnamese, half Mexican-American, growth up in Hong Kong and China, spent 20 odd years there, some people consider me more Chinese then Chinese born in China. And I had extensively studied Chinese Poem and yes, I can speak and write and listen to Chinese Fluently.

Source: http://www.defence.pk/forums/world-...rights-one-size-fits-all-3.html#ixzz2QaSHQ1Jy

I believe this is what I said. Did it answer your question??

But then again, I do have a HK Passport, does that mean I am Chinese? No.

Hannah Wilson (韋漢&#23068 have HK Passport, is she Chinese??

Then the second thing. Yes I do consider putting all the eggs in one basket is dumb. I believe putting all 2000 combat aircraft in Asia is dumb. But Whether it is dumb or not is not the question your fellow Chinese member asked here my friend. They are asking if putting 2000 combat aircraft in Asia is doable

let me quote you on Shuttler

1. we have developed a comprehesive land sea air cosmo cyber defensive system
2. bring all your 1600 F16 on together with your 200 B52 blah blah blah; where can you find an airbase with such a huge fleet? You are so novice and becoming such a joke!
3, and as we are talking all along the thread we are not trying to bring just one $1 billion destroyer down, kid.

Source: http://www.defence.pk/forums/china-...ile-kill-chain-us-expert-6.html#ixzz2QaTI6Mky

This is what he said. Now do "where can you find an airbase with such a huge fleet?" is a question about how dumb it is or about is it doable?? You tell me.

Something is dumb does not mean they are not doable. I explained it is doable as per your fellow Chinese member request. And now you come back and say my reply is dumb because it elaborately explain something that I considered dumb to begin with. LOL.

 

[Genesis]

First of all, keyword again is "some of the people" I never said I am more Chinese than other Chinese, some people think I do, I do not specify which people and whether or not am I agree on said statement. So, better luck next time.

Do I consider myself Chinese? Didn't I answered you already by you quoting me on another post? What is the first word I said?



I believe this is what I said. Did it answer your question??

But then again, I do have a HK Passport, does that mean I am Chinese? No.

Hannah Wilson (韋漢&#23068 have HK Passport, is she Chinese??

Then the second thing. Yes I do consider putting all the eggs in one basket is dumb. I believe putting all 2000 combat aircraft in Asia is dumb. But Whether it is dumb or not is not the question your fellow Chinese member asked here my friend. They are asking if putting 2000 combat aircraft in Asia is doable

let me quote you on Shuttler



This is what he said. Now do "where can you find an airbase with such a huge fleet?" is a question about how dumb it is or about is it doable?? You tell me.

Something is dumb does not mean they are not doable. I explained it is doable as per your fellow Chinese member request. And now you come back and say my reply is dumb because it elaborately explain something that I considered dumb to begin with. LOL.

Ah, from Hong Kong, now this makes much more sense. Yea, sorry couldn't keep track all the time, do have other things going on in my life. You can understand my confusion given the way you explained.

These discussions can get heated. lol it's almost as if there's a personal stake here.

But since we are being silly, how are you going to get all 1600 jets here? combat range of F16s are about 500 more or less no? So if no return flight it's about 1000. yet to get to Tokyo from San Fransisco is about 8000 KM. America has many carriers but not enough to fit 1600. So how many trips are you going to take and on which trip would you think China would strike?

Would you put them on cargo ships? with no chance of retaliation?

 

[jhungary]

Ah, from Hong Kong, now this makes much more sense. Yea, sorry couldn't keep track all the time, do have other things going on in my life. You can understand my confusion given the way you explained.

These discussions can get heated. lol it's almost as if there's a personal stake here.

But since we are being silly, how are you going to get all 1600 jets here? combat range of F16s are about 500 more or less no? So if no return flight it's about 1000. yet to get to Tokyo from San Fransisco is about 8000 KM. America has many carriers but not enough to fit 1600. So how many trips are you going to take and on which trip would you think China would strike?

Would you put them on cargo ships? with no chance of retaliation?

I growth up in both Hong Kong and a place in mainland China called Dongguan (东&#33694 I would say a 15/5 years split between both places.

How do I get the fighter to Asia? Easy, same way we bring our tanks, guns, aircraft from United States to Afghanistan and Iraq. Again, logistically it's stupid and would be a nightmare, but doable.

Since I don't think there is an official plan on this, a wild guess will be

Some of them will be packed up in cargo ship, while some of them fly escort. We can fly escort over pacific by breaking down the leg as such

SF -> Hickham
HickHam -> Andersen
Andersen to wherever the destination

 

[j20blackdragon]

beside, if you use free fall Bomb not a guided bomb, you can only put 1 plane on bomb run at one time. If you use all 100 plane to do a bomb run at the same time, you probably ended up crashing 98 of those plane....Either plane crash to each other or plane got stuck by friendly bombs....

If that is the case, it is literally easy to defend.

First, answer me this.

How are you supposed to have 100 J-31 making bomb run in the same time? and drop 1000 bomb on or AB Class destroyer to overwhelm them?? - Answer is, YOU CAN'T

It's a glide bomb Einstein...try to keep up.

The range is stated on the information placard: 130 km.

 

[Luftwaffe]

We would have a free for all using our 1500 F-16, 300 F-15E 200 A-10, 200 B-52 and 20 B-2 to have a free for all inside your industrial area. With all these air asset, we could probably damage 60-70% of your industrial power just because you put 100 J-31 to focus on 1 ship. If you do so, you will loose hundred of billions of dollars. While we only lose a Arleigh-Burke Destroy. This is a nice trade off.

It would be economically disastrous to bring in all the eggs from different baskets to station them in S. Korea and Japan because you necessarily put their countries at risk of being nuked and the it would be considered per-emptive strike thus giving China an excuse to defend. And it does put US assets at danger because China has enough to destroy these assets as they would be stationed. So will US lose billions of dollars as operational costs as well as losing assets while stationed in s. korea and Japan and over the skies of China.

Lastly don't take China as fools they have second to Russians the best SAMs coverage and so dense that it would be considered suicide going into Chinese Airspace. Overall you have poor logic and strategy.

@Martian2 You presence is required.

 

[Oldman1]

It would be economically disastrous to bring in all the eggs from different baskets to station them in S. Korea and Japan because you necessarily put their countries at risk of being nuked and the it would be considered per-emptive strike thus giving China an excuse to defend. And it does put US assets at danger because China has enough to destroy these assets as they would be stationed. So will US lose billions of dollars as operational costs as well as losing assets while stationed in s. korea and Japan and over the skies of China.

Lastly don't take China as fools they have second to Russians the best SAMs coverage and so dense that it would be considered suicide going into Chinese Airspace. Overall you have poor logic and strategy.

@Martian2 You presence is required.

Having the best SAM coverage does not counter the fact they can be destroyed by unmanned fighters, long range guided bombs and cruise missiles. Sure it makes things difficult, but not impossible to penetrate a country's airspace no matter how many SAMs you have.

 

[Luftwaffe]

Having the best SAM coverage does not counter the fact they can be destroyed by unmanned fighters, long range guided bombs and cruise missiles. Sure it makes things difficult, but not impossible to penetrate a country's airspace no matter how many SAMs you have.

I replied to this ridiculous post "We would have a free for all using our 1500 F-16, 300 F-15E 200 A-10, 200 B-52 and 20 B-2 to have a free for all inside your industrial area."

By the logic All US assets around China would be at in grave danger being stationed in s. Korea and Japan.

 

[j20blackdragon]

So, on average each air base can take on, umm, I don't know 61 aircraft.

34 missiles to destroy 61 aircraft on the parking ramps sounds like a good trade to me.

Don't forget the vulnerable JP-8 fuel storage tanks.

 

[Luftwaffe]

34 missiles to destroy 61 aircraft on the parking ramps sounds like a good trade to me.

He is delusional beyond approved human limits.