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Bosnia-Pakistan Relations: Building on a Strong Foundation

I am all for helping Muslims when they are oppressed, but truth be told half the population of Pakistan is oppressed.

That sounds awfully similar to the argument of any should America go to space when there are hungry and homeless Americans on the street.

If we help those people first and make Pakistan economically stronger, we would be a lot more capable of helping oppressed Muslims elsewhere like Palestine, Kashmir and China, because as it stands, apart from words, we cannot do anything, because we don’t have influence.

Of course you should build your economy and strength. But I dont see how transporting some missiles across the globe is going to hold you back from developing your country? If anything it will help you export your weapons and earn even more money.
 
That sounds awfully similar to the argument of any should America go to space when there are hungry and homeless Americans on the street.



Of course you should build your economy and strength. But I dont see how transporting some missiles across the globe is going to hold you back from developing your country? If anything it will help you export your weapons and earn even more money.
There’s a common issue with the people saying “how does exporting a few missiles hurt our economy”
First of all, those missiles weren’t free, they were built with taxpayer money. Secondly, the transport and smuggling wasn’t free either nor did the nations we “helped” pay for any of this, but those are very minuscule costs compared to the actual problem; Pakistan has gotten a lot more hate for its actions of trying to “help the ummah” than it has gotten benefits from it. We’ve been posed as warmongers, as an irresponsible nation, threatened with sanctions, made enemies, the list goes on. And for what? So we could help a country who’s people don’t even know we helped them or that we exist? And then there’s another major issue, the fact that our leadership and people were so caught up in the problems of others that nobody ever addressed the problems at home. They tried to act like heroes helping oppressed Muslims, while also being corrupt to the core and oppressing their own people. Which were also, FYI, Muslims. So No, There was no intent of “helping the ummah” beyond some personal gains and goals, no matter how we try to frame it.

You people talk as if these missiles are just some grass that we cut and sent off and that these actions have no consequences. I’m not going to continue this conversation further, but trust me, it goes a lot deeper than just selling “some missiles”

As for the US argument, I don’t think comparing Pakistan to the USA is a fair comparison, if Pakistan was half the country USA was I’d be perfectly happy with them taking part in every single war on the planet. And I think the US itself is a extremely flawed country itself, I often put it in its own category when talking about the developed world because of its issues, But unfortunately we’re not even close to that level either.
 
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There’s a common issue with the people saying “how does exporting a few missiles hurt our economy”
First of all, those missiles weren’t free, they were built with taxpayer money. Secondly, the transport and smuggling wasn’t free either, but those are very minuscule costs compared to the actual problem; Pakistan has gotten a lot more hate for its actions of trying to “help the ummah” than it has gotten benefits from it. We’ve been posed as warmongers, as an irresponsible nation, threatened with sanctions, made enemies, the list goes on. And for what? So we could help a country who’s people don’t even know we helped them or that we exist?

How much do you think 100 or so anti tank missiles cost? $100,00 each? So thats 10 million. That pocket change for any country. How Many billions have Gulf Arabs given to Pakistan for various things. I am sure 10 million or even 50 million is just a tiny amount of money for any country. And we have no idea who paid for these missiles and how much they paid, don't just assume Pakistani taxpayer paid for it.

And suppose you don't help any muslim countries in the world, you keep to your self you think other countries will think Pakistan is a great country? Will India suddenly have great relations with Pakistan? This a bit naive.

I don't think its fair to characterise Bosnians as a "country who’s people don’t even know we helped them or that we exist". The people who need to know already know. Dont forget most people are not that smart or knowledgable. It makes little difference what hey know or think.

We will never the know the full extent of Pakistani help, but 100 or 150 anti talk missiles alone can only help to a certain level. They saved lives, but have no doubt, Serbian tanks would have been stopped, with missies or without missiles. We would lose an extra 100 or maybe extra 1,000 soldiers or even 5,000 soldiers, but those tanks would be stopped, and the outcome of the war would not have changed.

You should be very proud of your countries efforts in that regard. shipment of some anti tank missies in 1992 will not hold you back in achieving your countries full potential.
 
I grew up with Bosnians, mainly Bosnian Serbs. Some of my best friends.

From my experience, most of them have absolutely no idea of Pakistans involvement in the war. The ones who do either view or positively (if they are Bosniaks) or negatively (if they are Serbs), which does make sense considering the side we helped. The ones who know are either older or belong to families who’s parents/grandparents may have taken refuge or were directly fighting in the war. Keep in mind only 50% of Bosnia is Bosniaks. The rest are Serbs and Croats who probably wouldn’t be happy to hear of Pakistans involvement in the war.

Still, Pakistan should try and expand its ties with all Eastern European nations, Serbia, Bosnia, Croatia, they’re all willing to work with Pakistan.
It was a cause for muslims back then. Even Iran helped the Bosniaks! Those Baktar Shikans were very useful against VRS armor. They could even penetrate the frontal armor of an M-84.
 
It was a cause for muslims back then. Even Iran helped the Bosniaks! Those Baktar Shikans were very useful against VRS armor. They could even penetrate the frontal armor of an M-84.

In some earlier post I detail one of the battles where they were first used. They were launched from high ground many kilometres away. And stopped a major offensive.

It played a very large psychological defeat for the Serbs who were promised by their leaders that they would just be fighting against lightly armed civilians. And when these things started destroying the advancing armour (6 or 7 tanks and IFV's in this one battle) it dawned upon the Serbian soldiers and officers that they were in very very deep crap.

I also posted a video of one of the Serbian officers who talks about this weapon and the troubles it is causing them and apart from a general feeling of resignation and defeat at the general situation, the officer gentleman almost has a small nervous breakdown on TV. Its pretty funny to watch.

Its a terrible feeling knowing that your enemy is being helped by some people all the way across the world who you have never even heard of. These serbs very much remind me of the Armenians fighting against Azerbaijan last year. Except that the Azeri victory was hard and fast. Thank God. Unfortunately we had to slog it out slowly and painfully with 30,000 military deaths on each side. And while the Armenians figured out they were defeated within a few weeks, it took the serbs a good 2 years before they figured out that they were defeated.
 
2 years before they figured out that they were defeated.
2 years? They held 4/5 of BiH by early 1995. They only started losing after the Croat-Muslim alliance and NATO started bombarding.

But I agree on the first part about the Baktar Shikan. I've heard from others too that the weapon was very good against Yugoslav armor. I have some videos download as well.
 
2 years? They held 4/5 of BiH by early 1995. They only started losing after the Croat-Muslim alliance and NATO started bombarding.

But I agree on the first part about the Baktar Shikan. I've heard from others too that the weapon was very good against Yugoslav armor. I have some videos download as well.

1992 was the start of the war. Early 1994 was Bosnian-Croat alliance 2.0

So thats about 2 years.

Admittedly, by winter 1993 they came very close to total victory, not militarily, but they almost took key territory that we were prepared to divide the country up. We were fighting Bosnian Croats, the Croatian Army, Bosnian Serbs, and many units from Serbia, as well as a Bosniak militia who sided with serbs. Thats 5 armies were fighting against. And gaining ground against the Croats and the Croatian Army. But now it was winter, people didn't have enough food. We were prepared for a divided country to avoid the continuing catastrophe. Meanwhile serbs were advancing on the eastern towns which were surrounded for 2 years.

At that point our president brought in a map that showed his ministers what the division of the country will look like. It was very bad, the ministers organised for him to talk to Turkish president Demirel, where he explained the situation. Demirel said he will call Clinton and they hung up. One of the ministers said that after the phone call he packed his stuff and decided to go home for the day. By the time he got home, maybe an hour later maybe 2, the Serbian offensive on the key points had stopped.

Within a week the peace and alliance negotiations with the croats and started.

Noone knows what Demirel said to Clinton, but I suspect a Turkish red line had been crossed and failing an American intervention I think Turkey was prepared to intervene. In what capacity I don't know, maybe not Cyprus type intervention but certainly peacekeepers and a flow of arms to us.

So I think it's safe to say by early 1994 the serbs figured they were finished. Certainly the soldiers and officers did. The people figured it out maybe 10 years after the war. Some still haven't figured it out.

By early 1994, Serbs had not won a battle for maybe 3 months, and even though they held 75% of Bosnia and 33% of Croatia they had lost most of their airforce, a good deal of their armour, Croatians were well armed, and they could see new uniforms and weapons that the Bosnians had obtained from Iran and elsewhere.

They knew that the Bosnians were manufacturing their own ammo and the artillery stocks were growing. They were no longer facing Bosnians who had 1 Automatic rifle and 5 people unarmed waiting for the rifle holder to die so they could take his place. By early 1994 they were facing Bosnians who each had a rifle, a grenade launcher per platoon, a moderate supply of RPG's, and modest Artillery support. The serbs, after an orgy of war crimes against civilians were certainly not ready to face what even slightly resembled a real army.

we had zero tanks in 1992 and by 1994 we had maybe 30 tanks (taken from Croats and Serbs). And crucially by early 1994 the Croatian- Bosnian alliance was formed and weapons started to flow to us from Croatia. Not heavy weapons, just small arms and ammo. Which was more than enough considering the situation we were in until then.

So yeah, they knew it was going to end really really badly for them, but they lied to their people if course, but the soldiers knew very well. Needless to say, from 1994, it was a constant series of defeats for them, and a retreat. By the end of the war we probably had 150 tanks, unlimited artillery, all taken form them. The serbs had packed up their high command and generals were on the way to Belgrade with the population of their largest city packed and ready to become refugees. Our army was on the outskirts. maybe 15 kilometres away and we were advancing about 5km per day. About as fast as infantry can march with logistics against a retreating army. So they were not routed, but definitely a retreat on major fronts.

Then US threatened to bomb our positions if we did not stop. we signed the Dayton peace agreement forcing them to stay in our country and have autonomy. Dayton saved them from total defeat. If they break the peace treaty, they can expect a very bad outcome. We now manufacture 400 million + bullets per year, make automatic rifles, SMG's, self propelled Artillery (including barrels and all), ammo for artillery, anti tank weapons (RPG's with tandem warheads, not fantastic, but enough), automatic grenade launchers, grenade rounds of all sorts, drone development with Turkey, mortars, and mortar rounds of all sorts (very useful in hilly terrain).

so they know they are beaten. but reality is hard to accept.
 
We were fighting Bosnian Croats, the Croatian Army, Bosnian Serbs, and many units from Serbia, as well as a Bosniak militia who sided with serbs.
Velika Kladusa breeee,northern Bihac pocket. Fikret Abdic's militia 😋
HV and HVO,RS and the ArBiH with a lot of men but few heavy weapons. Little by little gaining ground by capturing arms and buying weapons in the black market.
Kraijna collapsing after Storm and Flash,the Croats allying with the Muslims again and NATO getting in the game to force the Serbs to go to an agreement. Serbs only stopped and went to the Dayton Agreement when the Croat-Muslim forces were marching to Banja Luka.
 
The cooperation between Pakistan and Bosnia and Herzegovina can be traced back to the Bosnian civil war which was responsible for 100,000 casualties. During the war, Pakistan supplied weapons to the Bosnians, despite the UN-imposed arms embargo, and airlifted refugees into its territory.
The author, Adeel Yousaf, notes that since then, the two states have cooperated in the education, defense, and economic sectors. In 2005, when Pakistan was struck with a devastating earthquake, Bosnia and Herzegovina supported Pakistan by assisting in the health and education sector.
The author asserts that given their strong ties, the cooperation between the two states can extend to other sectors as well.

To read the complete article, visit: https://www.paradigmshift.com.pk

To submit your articles and research papers, please check our Submissions page.
Dear Bosniaks, next time when Serbs or Craots try to cross their limits, just break their jaw mercilessly. And if a tiny bit of mercy pops up in your heart, just remember what happened in Srebrenica.
Weakness is not an option for you guys.
 



Bosnia and Herzegovina–Pakistan relations

From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia


Pakistan-Bosnia and Herzegovina relations
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Bosnia and Herzegovina
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Pakistan
Map indicating locations of Bosnia and Pakistan
Bosnia and Herzegovina–Pakistan relations are the foreign relations between Pakistan and Bosnia. Pakistan recognised the independence of Bosnia from Yugoslavia in 1992, and the two established diplomatic relations. As recently as 2016, Pakistan's Prime Minister visited Bosnia on a 3-day visit and pledged support for the country.[1]
Contents
Bosnian War of Independence


Embassy of Pakistan in Sarajevo

See also: Inter-Services Intelligence activities in Bosnia

Pakistan sent UN Peacekeeping forces to the former Yugoslavia during the Yugoslav wars. During the war, Pakistan supported Bosnia while providing technical and military support to Bosnia. At the time Sadžida Silajdžić held the position of the ambassador of the Republic of Bosnia and Herzegovina in Islamabad, Pakistan.

Free trade agreement
The two countries have a free trade agreement and are currently negotiating Preferential Trade Agreement (PTA). In 2012, the bilateral trade was $301,000. Much of the trade between the two is routed through some third country making products like surgical instruments, textile products, rice and lumber much more expensive.[2]

Defense cooperation
Pakistan has provided medium-tech to high tech weapons to the Bosnian Government in the past. Pakistan supports the aspiration causes of Sandžak Bosniaks as part of its geo-political understanding.[clarification needed]Pakistan and Bosnia and Herzegovina signed MoU for defense cooperation in October 2012 during the visit of Bosnian President to Islamabad, the two countries vowed to boost their ties.[2]

Earthquake of 2005
Donations from Bosnian schoolchildren and the government funded the building of a school and health centre in Azad Jammu and Kashmir (AJK) after the 2005 earthquake. The 2005 Kashmir earthquake occurred on October 8, 2005 and caused between 86,000 and 87,351 casualties and displaced 2.8 million people. The Ambassador of Bosnia and Herzegovina, Damir Dzanko, has said that his country will extend every possible support to AJK in the health and education sectors because of the unprecedented help and support extended by the government of Pakistan and its people during the Bosnian War.[3]

Bosnian refugees in Pakistan
Pakistan was the third Islamic country by numbers of Bosniak refugees, following Turkey and Jordan, during the Bosnian war.[4] In June 1993, at least 380 Bosnian refugees had arrived in Pakistan, almost 200 of them children.[4] Pakistan said at the time that it would accept some nine thousand additional refugees.[4]

See also
References
  1. Rashid, Ahmed (26 June 1993). "Blonde Muslims find shelter in Pakistan: Refugees from Bosnia were given a warm welcome in a distant land, Ahmed Rashid writes from Islamabad". The Independent. London: Independent News and Media Limited. Retrieved 3 April 2010.
External links
I dont know why Pakistan bothers. Nobody ever shows gratitude to Pakistans life saving positivity. Example, how Pakistani soliders saved stranded US army personnel from Mogadishu, Somalia.
Pakistans involvement in assisting Bosnians, Pakistans involvement against the Soviet occupation of Afghanistan, Pakistans involvement in the six day war against Israel, Pakistans efforts to release kidnapped Indian sailors from Somalia. Most recent case of Pakistan assisting several nations to evacuate their nationals from Kabul.
The help goes beyond humanitarian assistance, as Pakistans PCB came to England and played several cricket matches against England during strict covid lockdown saving ECB millions.
Pakistan does what needs to be done, not for praise but for purpose.
 
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