Bosnia Genocide Part 2 - Urgent warning

[GumNaam]

last time, yeltsin was on serbia's side. this time it's Putin and Putin has filled the Russian military with Muslim soldiers. let's see how Russia reacts to this.

 

[Foinikas]

last time, yeltsin was on serbia's side. this time it's Putin and Putin has filled the Russian military with Muslim soldiers. let's see how Russia reacts to this.

There will not be a war and if a war started,Russia would probably support Serbia. The problem is not Bosnia,but Kosovo. The Americans and Europeans have realized it's a failed State and the Americans don't want a Greater Albania. There are still border clashes between Kosovo Albanians and the Serbian army, usually gunfire exchanges and grenades.

 

[Elvin]

Yes, a conflict is possible, sadly the bosnian serbs are not satisfied with the autonomy they received in the dayton peace accords. Also, it is more than religion, it isn’t black and white as it appears. Bosnian serbs are not capable to do anything without serbia and belgrade, bosniaks know this, just like the last war, it was all cooked up and planned in belgrade tears before the first shots were fired. The creation of a republika srpska (ethnic serb state) in bosnia has been long in the making. Sadly, the creation of said srpska was at the expense of bosniaks and croats.

Some say the serbs can secede if they want to. Well it doesn’t work that way. Bosniaks signed the dayton peace accords under the condition bosnia stays one country and that a post conflict process will ensue to integrate the country in some areas. The later has been done, bosnia has and is becoming stronger and stronger, more integrated year by year and belgrade is starting to cook again, with plans to use bosnian serbs as cannon fodder.

Also, there are many irreligious people of ALL backgrounds who are simply bosnian and are patriotic. They too have a voice.

Even though europe and the Us dragged their feet, tricked bosnia and did many other evil things, the state survived against impossible odds. Today, bosniaks and all bosnians are much more awake and are more ready than bosnian serbs, trust me when i say this. Whichever way you turn it bosniaks are in a better shape than in 1992. Bosnian serbs, however, lack the yugoslav army which dug positions around every major bosnian city and simply handed them over to serbs when the war started. Today, bosnian serbs have no army anymore, and they have no means to organize the way they did in 1992. Also many bosnian serb youth don’t want a war AND most importantly the opposition in srpska is against current government in that entity, which is a good sign the serbs are not united on the idea to secede because they know bosniaks will fight, and they know we are a tough bunch, esp when cornered.

Thank you iran and pakistan and everyone but please do not send us any help other than money and weapons. The last thing we need are extremists and irgc in bosnia, no thank you.

All the ones who argue everyone did genocide, well the courts ruled the bosnian serb army to have comitted genocide and noone else, bosniaks didn’t kill civilians we are muslims, but we did kill a lot of serb soldiers.. 20,000+ without large offensive weapons. The later is not genocide.

 

[Foinikas]

Even though europe and the Us dragged their feet, tricked bosnia and did many other evil things, the state survived against impossible odds. Today, bosniaks and all bosnians are much more awake and are more ready than bosnian serbs, trust me when i say this. Whichever way you turn it bosniaks are in a better shape than in 1992. Bosnian serbs, however, lack the yugoslav army which dug positions around every major bosnian city and simply handed them over to serbs when the war started. Today, bosnian serbs have no army anymore, and they have no means to organize the way they did in 1992. Also many bosnian serb youth don’t want a war AND most importantly the opposition in srpska is against current government in that entity, which is a good sign the serbs are not united on the idea to secede because they know bosniaks will fight, and they know we are a tough bunch, esp when cornered.

I agree with you there. This whole part.

All the ones who argue everyone did genocide, well the courts ruled the bosnian serb army to have comitted genocide and noone else, bosniaks didn’t kill civilians we are muslims, but we did kill a lot of serb soldiers.. 20,000+ without large offensive weapons. The later is not genocide.

But this is wrong. The ICTY in Hague is more or less an instrument of the West and USA. They had farce trials when it comes to the war in Yugoslavia. They ended up convicting almost all of the Serbs and many of the Croats while letting the Bosnian Muslims go or serve small sentences.

The "bosniaks didn't kill civilians we are muslims" is a ridiculous arguement. I won't go back to recall how many times muslims have killed civilians throughout the last few centuries,but mention that you massacred Serb civilians and executed many POWs as well. There's videos of Atif Dudakovic ordering the execution of POWs,there's videos of Bosniak soldiers with their jihadi friends abusing and executing POWs and civilians and there are lists of Serbs villages with names and surnames and the way they were killed. Killed with axes,knives,eyes gouged out,ears and tongues cut,testicles cut,beheadings and torture.

I highly suggest @SalarHaqq @retaxis @Irfan Baloch @SecularNationalist @Sainthood 101 @Beast @peagle @Muhammed45 @PakFactor @IblinI to watch at least the "Yugoslavia the Avoidable War" and "Srebrenica A Town Betrayed". They will are an absolute must watch.

Trust me guys. You must watch these documentaries.

For the Iranians,I don't blame them,they helped the Bosnian Muslims a lot. I don't know if they participated in war crimes. I think it was mostly the salafi and other conservative sunnis who participated in war crimes and sometimes even came into conflict with the local Bosnian Muslims because of their extremist ways.

And a small bonus video

Edit: Yugoslavia the Avoidable War on a playlist,in case you can't watch the whole video above

 

[peagle]

I agree with you there. This whole part.


But this is wrong. The ICTY in Hague is more or less an instrument of the West and USA. They had farce trials when it comes to the war in Yugoslavia. They ended up convicting almost all of the Serbs and many of the Croats while letting the Bosnian Muslims go or serve small sentences.

The "bosniaks didn't kill civilians we are muslims" is a ridiculous arguement. I won't go back to recall how many times muslims have killed civilians throughout the last few centuries,but mention that you massacred Serb civilians and executed many POWs as well. There's videos of Atif Dudakovic ordering the execution of POWs,there's videos of Bosniak soldiers with their jihadi friends abusing and executing POWs and civilians and there are lists of Serbs villages with names and surnames and the way they were killed. Killed with axes,knives,eyes gouged out,ears and tongues cut,testicles cut,beheadings and torture.

I highly suggest @SalarHaqq @retaxis @Irfan Baloch @SecularNationalist @Sainthood 101 @Beast @peagle @Muhammed45 @PakFactor @IblinI to watch at least the "Yugoslavia the Avoidable War" and "Srebrenica A Town Betrayed". They will are an absolute must watch.

Trust me guys. You must watch these documentaries.

For the Iranians,I don't blame them,they helped the Bosnian Muslims a lot. I don't know if they participated in war crimes. I think it was mostly the salafi and other conservative sunnis who participated in war crimes and sometimes even came into conflict with the local Bosnian Muslims because of their extremist ways.

And a small bonus video

Edit: Yugoslavia the Avoidable War on a playlist,in case you can't watch the whole video above

I will try and watch when I get a chance.

But, your arguments are very weak, you are highlighting ancient history, whilst discussion is about an actual very recent event. And you are quoting a "we are Muslim BS statement", when no one here has mentioned it, I am discussing relevant facts, not something a religious nut may have said.

You are trying to claim equivalence, when it does not exist, over 80% of civilian victims were Bosniaks, how can you convince anyone that they were equally to blame, it sound extremely ridiculous.
War is an ugly thing, everyone should be punished, but if the victim decides to fights back in self defence then obviously people are going to die, especially soldiers. But you simply cannot gloss over the fact that 81.3% of the civilian deaths were Bosniaks.

You cannot peddle equivalence where it does not exist.

If your argument was that the Bosnians who committed such crimes should have been punished, then yes I would agree, but you are making a completely different argument, it just does not make any sense, it amounts to spreading falsehoods.

And you are ignoring the fact that it is the Serbs who are beating the war drums again, and getting ready to start a war the second time around. This is not going to be pretty, because it will not be the same this time around, global conditions have changed.

 

[Foinikas]

I will try and watch when I get a chance.

But, your arguments are very weak, you are highlighting ancient history, whilst discussion is about an actual very recent event. And you are quoting a "we are Muslim BS statement", when no one here has mentioned it, I am discussing relevant facts, not something a religious nut may have said.

You are trying to claim equivalence, when it does not exist, over 80% of civilian victims were Bosniaks, how can you convince anyone that they were equally to blame, it sound extremely ridiculous.
War is an ugly thing, everyone should be punished, but if the victim decides to fights back in self defence then obviously people are going to die, especially soldiers. But you simply cannot gloss over the fact that 81.3% of the civilian deaths were Bosniaks.

You cannot peddle equivalence where it does not exist.

If your argument was that the Bosnians who committed such crimes should have been punished, then yes I would agree, but you are making a completely different argument, it just does not make any sense, it amounts to spreading falsehoods.

And you are ignoring the fact that it is the Serbs who are beating the war drums again, and getting ready to start a war the second time around. This is not going to be pretty, because it will not be the same this time around, global conditions have changed.

Watch the documentaries and you'll understand.

There's not gonna be a war. I doubt anyone would want to fight again. And if the Serbs of Republika Srpska want to leave and unite with Serbia,the Bosniaks,Croats and Americans can't tell them they can't do it when Croatia and the BiH government left Yugoslavia which was illegal in the Yugoslav Constitution and the Americans gave independence to Kosovo which was an autonomous region of Serbia proper. I think nobody wants a war in the Balkans right now when there's all that stuff going on in Ukraine.

 

[peagle]

Watch the documentaries and you'll understand.

There's not gonna be a war. I doubt anyone would want to fight again. And if the Serbs of Republika Srpska want to leave and unite with Serbia,the Bosniaks,Croats and Americans can't tell them they can't do it when Croatia and the BiH government left Yugoslavia which was illegal in the Yugoslav Constitution and the Americans gave independence to Kosovo which was an autonomous region of Serbia proper. I think nobody wants a war in the Balkans right now when there's all that stuff going on in Ukraine.

I actually think that is the best solution, I think the main issue is that Bosnia has weird geography in terms of where the ethnicities are located. They need to make a workable map and let them go their own way, that's if they really want to and if it creates a permanent peace. No people should be forced to stay if they don't wish to be part of that country.

I'm glad that you believe there will be no war, but the news that's coming out is saying something else, I hope you are right.

 

[Elvin]

It is sad that people are playing politics with the victims of the Bosnian genocide. The data is clear and well documented, 80% of the civilian deaths were bosniaks, the remaining 20% were serbs and croats together. Yet, some still deny the genocide, try to equalize the atrocites even though the ratio is 1:4. Try to deny the credibility of international courts that judge not only the former yugoslav conflicts but also conflicts from all over the world. It is sad, and it is an example of what type of europe we deal with and have dealt with during the war.

4,000 serb civilians were killed in the entire bosnian war, that is nothing, and how many of them were killed by croats? or how many were killed by their own serbs during the shelling of sarajevo?

Over 1,000 bosniak mosques were burned to the ground on the territory known as srpska today, and every one was rebuilt, actually we built more than there were before the war.

How many serbian orthodox churches were destroyed in the bosnian war? Please research this.

Some try to convince others that the abovementioned 4,000 civilians are enough to equalize the atrocities, make the agressor the victim, but of course this does not work. The christian serbs in christian europe were condemned, even though that europe has the same perception as some on this forum, yet they were forced to admit and condemn because the evidence was overwhelming.

Some say the serbs can leave if they want to, well sure, according to the serbs they think they can do that, but bosniaks and croats think otherwise. Most of the world thinks otherwise. Srpska is not exclusive serb territory, this status quo is temporary, and is not meant to last forever.

Some say, why did the bosnian government sign the dayton peace accords in 1995, when they had momentum on the ground? Well we signed it because the condition was that Bosnia remains united and one country with unchanged borders. This means, that the bosnian serbs signed to this, and pledged to this. If they violate the peace treaty then you have no more peace, and according to the said treat secession is impossible. If such thing occurs, and the dayton peace accords are violated then the bosnian state will reinstate the constitution of the republic of bosnia and herzegovina (1991-1995) which implies a unitary state. This is the bosnian position, regardless of who disagrees.

Recently, the americans and europeans came to bosnia to help push electoral reforms, said reforms would have created an arpatheid, the bosniaks told the americans and europeans to go home.

Also, bosnian serbs and serbians are different, I always say this, the only thing that makes bosnian serbs, serbs is the fact they are members of the serbian orthodox church, and nothing else. They are bosnian, and Bosnian is an identity in of itself, thereby the last war had thousands of serbs and croats in the ranks of the bosnian army, sometimes bosnian patriotism exceeds religious pride.

When a bosnian serb goes to seerbia, the minute they start speaking people call them bosnians, the mentality, traditions, culture is totaly different.

I am not a serbia hater, but bosnia was never part of serbia, in 1,000 years, so why do they and some think serbia has the right to take bosnian lands? In yugoslavia, bosnia was an equal to serbia and croatia, for a reason.

Bosnian borders have been consistent for 1,000 years, even during the ottoman empire bosnia was an Vilayet, with it's own borders. This is why any attempt to secede is unacceptable to 60% of the population of Bosnia of all faiths.

The dayton peace accords allow for further integration of the country, through political consensus and or through the intervention of the high representative, both were utilized in the past 25 years to make bosnia stronger. Some say the high representative is working for the muslims, yet they are all christian europeans but can't do without acting, the issues and problems are too big and they know they have to do something, so they did, 20% of what they could have done.

The current issues comes from the fact that the former high representative enforced a law banning the denial of the srebrenica genocide (this implies that serbs can't celebrate the war criminals, graffiti, sing songs, etc.) due to this humane law, the serbs threw a fit and started boycotting state institutiotns, instead of making attempts to reconcile, build bridges, they provoke us constantly with their symbols, hate speech, and others, bosniaks are silent for 25 years. The dog that barks is not going to bite, beware of the silent dog. When and if the time comes, there is so much anger in the bosniaks, the serbs better calm down and start talking and thinking normally.

I think it will all be good.

 

[Tshering22]

Another theater of potential Russia-Nato standoff after Ukraine

Ukraine is too big at the moment and the entire European energy is channelled there. This is going to go either way:

1) NATO will distract Russia by arming up Bosnian groups from Ukraine

OR

2) Russia will strike deep into Ukraine fast and keep the West from opening another front.

Either ways, there is going to be a war in Europe. Macron only managed to convince Putin to not escalate - but not back down.

 

[fitpOsitive]

Lately there is so much news coming out about a second Bosnian conflict, yet there is hardly any discussion on PDF.

Last time Muslim countries were not strong enough, still Pakistan supplied anti tank missiles and other weapons to Bosnian forces, and Turkiye also played a big role.

This time around they must be crazy if they think they can massacre our Muslim brother like they did last time. I hope people are aware of what's going on.

Muslims are ready this time. If Europe doesn't stop it here right now, then the price will be huge.

 

[PakFactor]

I agree with you there. This whole part.


But this is wrong. The ICTY in Hague is more or less an instrument of the West and USA. They had farce trials when it comes to the war in Yugoslavia. They ended up convicting almost all of the Serbs and many of the Croats while letting the Bosnian Muslims go or serve small sentences.

The "bosniaks didn't kill civilians we are muslims" is a ridiculous arguement. I won't go back to recall how many times muslims have killed civilians throughout the last few centuries,but mention that you massacred Serb civilians and executed many POWs as well. There's videos of Atif Dudakovic ordering the execution of POWs,there's videos of Bosniak soldiers with their jihadi friends abusing and executing POWs and civilians and there are lists of Serbs villages with names and surnames and the way they were killed. Killed with axes,knives,eyes gouged out,ears and tongues cut,testicles cut,beheadings and torture.

I highly suggest @SalarHaqq @retaxis @Irfan Baloch @SecularNationalist @Sainthood 101 @Beast @peagle @Muhammed45 @PakFactor @IblinI to watch at least the "Yugoslavia the Avoidable War" and "Srebrenica A Town Betrayed". They will are an absolute must watch.

Trust me guys. You must watch these documentaries.

For the Iranians,I don't blame them,they helped the Bosnian Muslims a lot. I don't know if they participated in war crimes. I think it was mostly the salafi and other conservative sunnis who participated in war crimes and sometimes even came into conflict with the local Bosnian Muslims because of their extremist ways.

And a small bonus video

Edit: Yugoslavia the Avoidable War on a playlist,in case you can't watch the whole video above

Thanks I will watch these tonight.

 

[Titanium100]

NATO have forces and strong presence in the surrounding area in Balkan besides Bosnia is an upcoming NATO member.. If anything Srpsk may get greenlighted to just separate with referendum

 

[Foinikas]

Try to deny the credibility of international courts that judge not only the former yugoslav conflicts but also conflicts from all over the world. It is sad, and it is an example of what type of europe we deal with and have dealt with during the war.

The same ICTY that let Naser Oric go and went easy on BiH crimes?

Some say the serbs can leave if they want to, well sure, according to the serbs they think they can do that, but bosniaks and croats think otherwise.

In 1992,Bosniaks decided to leave Yugoslavia and the Serbs didn't. You called them the agressors. Now,if the Serbs want to leave the Federation of Bosnia and Herzegovina,will you be the agressors?

Some say, why did the bosnian government sign the dayton peace accords in 1995, when they had momentum on the ground? Well we signed it because the condition was that Bosnia remains united and one country with unchanged borders. This means, that the bosnian serbs signed to this, and pledged to this. If they violate the peace treaty then you have no more peace, and according to the said treat secession is impossible. If such thing occurs, and the dayton peace accords are violated then the bosnian state will reinstate the constitution of the republic of bosnia and herzegovina (1991-1995) which implies a unitary state. This is the bosnian position, regardless of who disagrees.

Yugoslavia's Constitution also didn't allow for a republic to leave,but there you have it. It was a Federation of Socialist Republics. In the same sense,BiH is a Federation of 2 entities.

Besides,the Americans gave Kosovo to the Albanians. If the Bosnian Serbs want to leave,shouldn't they be able to?

They are bosnian, and Bosnian is an identity in of itself, thereby the last war had thousands of serbs and croats in the ranks of the bosnian army, sometimes bosnian patriotism exceeds religious pride.

They are Bosnian,but they are Serbs. You are Bosnian Muslim. There's Bosnian Croats. It's kind of like there's Greek Cypriots and Turkish Cypriots. Syrian Kurds,but also Iraqi Kurds.

They feel united and part of one people. Just like Bosnian Muslims and Sandzak Muslims in a way.

The current issues comes from the fact that the former high representative enforced a law banning the denial of the srebrenica genocide

 

[peagle]

I agree with you there. This whole part.


But this is wrong. The ICTY in Hague is more or less an instrument of the West and USA. They had farce trials when it comes to the war in Yugoslavia. They ended up convicting almost all of the Serbs and many of the Croats while letting the Bosnian Muslims go or serve small sentences.

The "bosniaks didn't kill civilians we are muslims" is a ridiculous arguement. I won't go back to recall how many times muslims have killed civilians throughout the last few centuries,but mention that you massacred Serb civilians and executed many POWs as well. There's videos of Atif Dudakovic ordering the execution of POWs,there's videos of Bosniak soldiers with their jihadi friends abusing and executing POWs and civilians and there are lists of Serbs villages with names and surnames and the way they were killed. Killed with axes,knives,eyes gouged out,ears and tongues cut,testicles cut,beheadings and torture.

I highly suggest @SalarHaqq @retaxis @Irfan Baloch @SecularNationalist @Sainthood 101 @Beast @peagle @Muhammed45 @PakFactor @IblinI to watch at least the "Yugoslavia the Avoidable War" and "Srebrenica A Town Betrayed". They will are an absolute must watch.

Trust me guys. You must watch these documentaries.

For the Iranians,I don't blame them,they helped the Bosnian Muslims a lot. I don't know if they participated in war crimes. I think it was mostly the salafi and other conservative sunnis who participated in war crimes and sometimes even came into conflict with the local Bosnian Muslims because of their extremist ways.

And a small bonus video

Edit: Yugoslavia the Avoidable War on a playlist,in case you can't watch the whole video above

I am including you guys because you were included in the original post with videos, and I do not know how many people watched the videos. I did, below are my observations.
@SalarHaqq @retaxis @Irfan Baloch @SecularNationalist @Sainthood 101 @Beast @Muhammed45 @PakFactor @IblinI


Bosnian conflict April 92 - Dec 95

I have to say I am extremely disappointed, I was expecting some sort of an awakening moment, or at the very least new reasoned arguments. I did not find any. I have highlighted the shortcomings with regards to each of the videos you posted.


* First video

This video mostly consists of points created by someone with an axe to grind, peddling a prejudiced viewpoint. According to this so called researched video;

The Serbs did not want to be run by an Islamic extremist government, and the Islamic fundamentalist fighters started the war >> There was zero chance of an Islamic government of any kind in Bosnia at that time, it doesn’t even exist now, after decades of Muslim influence. Islam was not a major factor and neither did it hold any significant influence at the time.

The Muslims fighters only came on the scene after the conflict had already started, with the active backing of Serbia and Croatia towards their respective groups. Those fighters went there to support the Bosnians, just like Orthodox and Catholic fighters went to support their side. So the claim that Islam was a factor is utterly ridiculous and a complete lie. In-fact it shows the Islamophobic agenda of this documentary.

In an interview a doctor was asked if “anyone had died in this camp” the answer was “no, just an old man because there was a lack of medicine” >> so in a refugee/prisoner camp, call it what you want, the only person to die was an old man due to lack of medication, it was all hunky dory, I mean really? it sounds like heaven where no one dies, it was all perfect.

In another interview, a respondent said that “no-one provided aid, there are no foreign organisations providing any help, all the aid is coming from Serbia” >> so all the international aid effort was just for show, right? The world is evil who did nothing to help, but Serbia was the great saviour that came to the assistance of the Bosniaks, how can anyone believe such silly claims/propaganda. I’m sorry, but this is just unbelievable.

A large portion of the film was about the thin/starving man and how his picture was misrepresented, it was also claimed that “Mr Alic, the man was thin because of a childhood condition”, really? So it had nothing to do with any suffering in the camp, but he was suffering from a childhood illness that left him in that condition. Please find below his picture at the time, and a recent picture in his old age. Looks like his so called illness disappeared because he looks very healthy and bulky, he looks better in old age, then in the prime of his youth.

Picking on isolated points to paint a bigger picture is not a good way to build an argument. It doesn’t amount to much, because the sheer amount of evidence that exist to prove Bosnian Muslims genocide is indisputable. You can argue by highlighting few points, but it can’t amount to denial of what took place. 81.3% of civilian deaths were Bosniaks, it was a structured and organised genocide of Bosnian Muslims, with the active support of Serbia and Croatia. Muslim foreign players entered after the extreme suffering of Bosniaks was already taking place.

If we were to believe the claims in this video, there was no massacre of Bosniaks,
Serbs were angels helping everyone and, they did no wrong. The world is telling nothing but lies, seriously?

This video is as believable as the flat earth theory, no moon landing claims, and at the same level as the holocaust deniers. Each of those claims have their own logic, but that does not make them true.
The evidence regarding the genocide of Bosniak people is indisputable.


* Second video

Why are they constantly referring to Bosniaks only as Muslim, but Serbs are Serbs, not Orthodox Christians. Croats are Croats, not Catholic Christians. That is extremely biased reporting. The Bosniak identity is a recognise ethnic group, and they are proud of their ethnicity, then why only refer to them as Muslims, unless it is to feed inbuilt European fear-mongering against them, that’s sad and wrong.

There is nothing unusual or shocking in this video, it points towards possible killings done by Bosnian forces. But the Bosniak they interviewed admitted it, but also clarified that it was soldiers killing soldiers. something I have already said that there will be killing in a war. The fact is 81.3% of civilian deaths were Bosniaks, 10.9% Serbs and 8.3% Croats. When over 81% of victims are from a single community, that very clearly says there was a systematic and organised genocide of that community.

The soldier deaths were more balanced, which points to the truth of that interview with the Bosniak soldier they were blaming. Bosniaks targeted soldiers, in the process civilians also got killed, it is unfair to make exaggerated claims.

Civilian deaths
Bosniaks 81.3%
Serbs 10.9%
Croats 8.3%

Soldier deaths
Bosniaks 53.6%
Serbs 36%
Croats 10.3%

There is also a silly emphasis on so-called arms smuggling to the Bosnian forces, but no mention of Serb and Croat forces being provided weapons and fully supported by Serbia and Croatia. Is the assumption that it is OK for the Serbs and Croats to be provided external support, throughout the war, but if the Bosnians are given arms for their defence, it is wrong, isn’t this a silly hypocritical claim.


* Third video

This starts by referring to a meeting of foreign Muslim fighters in 1995, that’s towards the end of the war. What is so shocking about this?

Why is this even news? By then it is well known that Muslim volunteers went to the aid of Bosnians.
Just like the Russians, Greeks and other Orthodox Christians fought for the Serbs.
And, Catholic volunteers from different European countries fought for the Croats.

I do not understand the point of this video, unless to spread Islamophobia.

It’s OK for Serbs to receive massive help from Serbia and Orthodox Christian groups and individuals. It’s OK for Croats to receive help from Catholic Christian volunteers and groups as well as Croatia. But it is not OK for the Bosnians to get any help, that’s a ridiculous claim, the Bosniak were getting massacred, they needed help more then anyone else.

The Bosniak help is being painted as a religious war, but the Serb and Croat help, which was also religiously motivated has no religious connotations, if this isn’t the height of hypocrisy then I don’t know what is.


* Forth video

There is nothing that deals with the genocide of Bosniak people, or the conduct of the war, it just presents an argument on why it started and such things, which are not relevant to the discussion in this thread. The if’s and but’s are theoretical arguments. This thread is about the effects and the brutality of the Bosnian conflict.



It is unfair to use videos to reinforce exiting prejudices. Every message/argument has to stand the test of reasonableness, just because someone makes a video, that does not mean they have uncovered a hidden truth.
Their message has to make sense, it has to be fair, and based on balanced facts, these video do nothing except try to peddle misinformed lies, that is sad and unfair.


As I previously mentioned, if you feel that some Bosniaks or Muslim volunteers were involved in unlawful killings, and they were not punished, and should have been, then I agree, they should have been punished. But, I am sure there are a lot of Serbs or Croats and their volunteers who should also have been punished, but were not punished. But, these videos do not deal with those issue.

Please remember, that any assumed unlawful killings cannot and do not eliminate the genocide of the Bosnian Muslims, they suffered, it is wrong to deny facts of history, or equalise their suffering with Serbs or Croats.

81.3% of civilian deaths were Bosniak, the rest Serbs and Croats. It cannot be compared, it is wrong to attempt such a thing.

 

[Elvin]

The same ICTY that let Naser Oric go and went easy on BiH crimes?


In 1992,Bosniaks decided to leave Yugoslavia and the Serbs didn't. You called them the agressors. Now,if the Serbs want to leave the Federation of Bosnia and Herzegovina,will you be the agressors?


Yugoslavia's Constitution also didn't allow for a republic to leave,but there you have it. It was a Federation of Socialist Republics. In the same sense,BiH is a Federation of 2 entities.

Besides,the Americans gave Kosovo to the Albanians. If the Bosnian Serbs want to leave,shouldn't they be able to?


They are Bosnian,but they are Serbs. You are Bosnian Muslim. There's Bosnian Croats. It's kind of like there's Greek Cypriots and Turkish Cypriots. Syrian Kurds,but also Iraqi Kurds.

They feel united and part of one people. Just like Bosnian Muslims and Sandzak Muslims in a way.


View attachment 814646

View attachment 814647


View attachment 814648

View attachment 814649

Your source is from a guy named Ivanisevic, he comes from the same sort that ignore the entire genocide (which by the way was not just Srebrenica, srebrenica was just a cumulation of all other atrocities in eastern bosnia). Nonetheless, there is a lot of misinformation out there.

Bosnia and Herzegovina was internationally recognized and became a member of the UN before the war in Bosnia, it declared it's independence on March 3, 1992. The serbs boycotted that o course.

Well Yugoslavia was an already sinking ship. slovenia, croatia and macedonia had already declared independence, Bosnia had no choice because it was either remain in a new serb dominated (i.e. serbia) or declare independence like the rest.

To show you how much serbs loved yugoslavia, they were shoting at bosnian protests which carried pictures of tito and waved yugoslav flags.

Yugoslavia is a whole other topics, Bosniaks admired Yu the most, YU after tito was a different place, it was destined to fail.

Serbs want to leave, yes, but we don't want that, we don't think a 30% minority should take 49% of territory, we also don't accept srpska to secede especially since 13% of the population is bosniak, a lot of property is owned in srpska by bosniaks in the federation and abroad, people are still returning, etc. not to mention cultural riches that belong to bosniiaks and are in today's srpsa.

There could be an agreement for the serbs to leave, but definitely not with 49%, they would have to give up eastern bosnia between zvornika and foca and everything in between. This may satisfy the bosniaks becuase in said area there aren't many serbs today, or before, because it was a bosniak region where most of the cities and towns and villiges had 70% bosniak majority. Today, only about 17% of serbs live in this region, if they give that back we may be able to make a deal where they take the northern areas where they primarily inhabit anyways.

Also, naser oric went to the hague, evidence was presented and he was dismissed honorably. I doibt a christian court in christian europe which let the genocide happen would side with a bosniak muslim commander or bosniaks as a whole LoL. Just read and digest how crazy that sounds.