Boeing’s Make in India F-18 offer comes with a rider but it’s still a better offer claims Source

[Abingdonboy]

It was never a rumour.



The purpose of the second line is not to match MMRCA. It is to be cheap. If the aircraft is cheap, it will be bought. It's that simple.



The first line is Rafale. Rafale will be built in India, that's guaranteed as soon as the first 36 are signed. As Trappier said, they are preparing to submit their proposal for the first 90 to MoD.

The second line is between SH, F-16, Gripen, Mig-35 and Typhoon. Of course Typhoon has no chance. So the competition is between SH, F-16, Mig-35 and Gripen.

The second line has nothing to do with the Rafale line. It won't interfere with Rafale MII.

LCA lines are independent from the other two lines.

Sir, I think you know where I stand on this- there is no need for a second MMRCA line in India or second MMRCA type in the IAF as this will only add needless complexity for the IAF in the long term.

And price shouldn't be the only considersation consdiering how restrctive US rules are when it comes to their products. This is a frontline fighter jet not a transport aircraft, India can't afford to have the US's harmful end-user agreements for their offensive assets.

The Rafale and LCA and in the long term FGFA and AMCA are the future of the IAF- bar none.

 

[axisofevil]

no I don't have to use that shit its for people with Interiority complex like you

Deez Nutz....

 

[Taygibay]

that sh1t i_s for people with Interiority complex like you

Well he may or may not lack exteriorization, I must say I haven't noticed!
Maybe as a newbie however, you could hold back from such accusatory posts
... at least until you have a base knowledge of the guy? And check your tone ...
and use a spell checker!

Just sayin' Tay.

 

[randomradio]

Sir, I think you know where I stand on this- there is no need for a second MMRCA line in India or second MMRCA type in the IAF as this will only add needless complexity for the IAF in the long term.

And price shouldn't be the only considersation consdiering how restrctive US rules are when it comes to their products. This is a frontline fighter jet not a transport aircraft, India can't afford to have the US's harmful end-user agreements for their offensive assets.

The Rafale and LCA and in the long term FGFA and AMCA are the future of the IAF- bar none.

You can drop the Sir, there is equality on forums.

I don't like the second line either. But there may be a greater strategy in play, so we cannot discount it. Buying 90 SHs may give GE enough incentive to transfer their entire F414 line to India with a private partnership. That's of immeasurable importance to India.

China is planning on spending over $60B in developing their engine industry, we can't invest the same, so we have to use other methods.

 

[Masterhunter]

It's gonna be LCA, rafale and Su30 for IAF...whatever anyone says or read between lines... Reasons....

1. Gripen...direct competitor to LCA and no added benefit..
2. F16.... Same as above and u can't trust LM for TOT, they even ditched Koreans...
3. F18.... IN don't want it...period... Any new line has to cater for IN... Also, it's not cheap as people are arguing... With weapon package.. F18 ASH will cost 90 M dollar or so..
4. Typhoon...very very unlikely...

Lastly, the dark horse is MIG35.... And yet it may be choice for third line other than LCA and rafale.... It's cheap, good aircraft to make up sqn numbers, infrastructure already there,

and say 100 MIG35 for IAF and 30 MiG29K for IN from same MII line... And biggest advantage is open source code to tweak it make it MIG35 MKI..
Don't under estimate the Russians... They may not do publicity but behind doors it may be a chance...... Less may be.. But better than rest of the other aircrafts..

@PARIKRAMA @Ankit Kumar @Abingdonboy @Picdelamirand-oil

 

[Abingdonboy]

I don't like the second line either. But there may be a greater strategy in play, so we cannot discount it. Buying 90 SHs may give GE enough incentive to transfer their entire F414 line to India with a private partnership. That's of immeasurable importance to India.

But would that come with full ToT? Highly doubtful and thus of limited utility really.

Lastly, the dark horse is MIG35.... And yet it may be choice for third line other than LCA and rafale.... It's cheap, good aircraft to make up sqn numbers, infrastructure already there,

and say 100 MIG35 for IAF and 30 MiG29K for IN from same MII line... And biggest advantage is open source code to tweak it make it MIG35 MKI..
Don't under estimate the Russians... They may not do publicity but behind doors it may be a chance...... Less may be.. But better than rest of the other aircrafts..

Maybe 3-4 years ago this deal could have been a viable option but 2016 with the way things are in Russia and Indo-Russian ties it just isn't on the table. Heck, the French are even pitching the Rafale-M for the IN's STOBAR carriers- that's directly taking orders from the MiG-29K. The IN/MiG missed a trick with the MiG-29K, had they set up a production line or at least a spares production plant in India they (Russia/MiG) could have profited massively in recent times and likely would have had a orders for a few SQNs worth of MMRCA by now as this entire MMRCA saga played out. But that ship has sailed and that opportunity will never return. Now the IAF and IN are focusing on the future and one type will fit their needs rather well- the Rafale.

@PARIKRAMA

 

[Masterhunter]

But would that come with full ToT? Highly doubtful and thus of limited utility really.



Maybe 3-4 years ago this deal could have been a viable option but 2016 with the way things are in Russia and Indo-Russian ties it just isn't on the table. Heck, the French are even pitching the Rafale-M for the IN's STOBAR carriers- that's directly taking orders from the MiG-29K. The IN/MiG missed a trick with the MiG-29K, had they set up a production line or at least a spares production plant in India they (Russia/MiG) could have profited massively in recent times and likely would have had a orders for a few SQNs worth of MMRCA by now as this entire MMRCA saga played out. But that ship has sailed and that opportunity will never return. Now the IAF and IN are focusing on the future and one type will fit their needs rather well- the Rafale.

@PARIKRAMA

I am 100% in agreement with you..that is its gonna be rafale and LCA...

But say 5% chance that there may be a third line after LCA and Rafale.... If it's a possibility even by a remote chance
...then what do you think who has max chance for about 140-160 planes.. Out of F18/F16/Gripen/typhoon/MIG35......
If this happens.. I will my bets on MIG 35...

 

[A.P. Richelieu]

It's gonna be LCA, rafale and Su30 for IAF...whatever anyone says or read between lines... Reasons....

1. Gripen...direct competitor to LCA and no added benefit..

How many Air Forces are looking into buying LCA compared to Gripen?
Maybe others see some benefits, not obvious to the blind and deaf.

 

[Masterhunter]

How many Air Forces are looking into buying LCA compared to Gripen?
Maybe others see some benefits, not obvious to the blind and deaf.

Sir, I have never said Gripen is direct competitor for LCA ..in "export market"..
What I meant is that it's direct competitor with LCA in IAF procurement plan....

IAF needs minimum 15 light aircraft sqn... That is about 270 odd planes.. 6 sqn is already on order.. And there is still requirement of 09 sqn more.
If gripen is selected it will harm LCA as the number gripen will take away is from LCA kitty

So gripen and F16 selection is harmful to LCA in long run...
And who knows in future mk2 may become better than Gripen NG.... No one predict that..
Hope I am clear now...

 

[A.P. Richelieu]

Sir, I have never said Gripen is direct competitor for LCA ..in "export market"..
What I meant is that it's direct competitor with LCA in IAF procurement plan....

IAF needs minimum 15 light aircraft sqn... That is about 270 odd planes.. 6 sqn is already on order.. And there is still requirement of 09 sqn more.
If gripen is selected it will harm LCA as the number gripen will take away is from LCA kitty

So gripen and F16 selection is harmful to LCA in long run...
And who knows in future mk2 may become better than Gripen NG.... No one predict that..
Hope I am clear now...

And You are not concerned that buying LCA instead of Gripen might harm Indian Pilots
and the results achieved by IAF in a conflict.

 

[Abingdonboy]

And You are not concerned that buying LCA instead of Gripen might harm Indian Pilots
and the results achieved by IAF in a conflict.

Why would the LCA harm Indian pilots? More than 3500 flights and not a single airframe loss and it is a platform that will be developed over time- the LCA Mk.2 will be very close to the Gripen NG in specs.

 

[Water Car Engineer]

And You are not concerned that buying LCA instead of Gripen might harm Indian Pilots
and the results achieved by IAF in a conflict.

One production plant is already up for LCA, and another will come up as well. It's too late to say if LCA is wrong or not. And Gripen has zero chance, no need to bring that up, no matter how much it's lobby keep trying to get it to be relevant.

 

[A.P. Richelieu]

Why would the LCA harm Indian pilots? More than 3500 flights and not a single airframe loss and it is a platform that will be developed over time- the LCA Mk.2 will be very close to the Gripen NG in specs.

The LCA Mk II is far away, and the LCA Mk I lacks a lot of the features of the Gripen E.

Flying inferior product can be harmful to pilots in a shooting war.
If they are equivalent, then countries like Malaysia should consider the LCA for their next
generation fighters, but they don't.

 

[Water Car Engineer]

The LCA Mk II is far away, and the LCA Mk I lacks a lot of the features of the Gripen E.

Flying inferior product can be harmful to pilots in a shooting war.
If they are equivalent, then countries like Malaysia should consider the LCA for their next
generation fighters, but they don't.

That's why there are Rafales, MKIs, 29 UPGs, Mirage UPGs, what have you. There's one manufacturing plant up for LCA right now, and another in the works. Doesnt matter what you think, it's a platform that's going to be produced and worked/improved on with further blocks. And MK1A is a fine low tier, multi role fighter. Gripen has no chance, and it's completely irrelevant now. Frankly, it was dead/irrelevant from the beginning.

 

[Abingdonboy]

The LCA Mk II is far away, and the LCA Mk I lacks a lot of the features of the Gripen E.

Rome wasn't built in a day.

Flying inferior product can be harmful to pilots in a shooting war.

Well that's why the MKIs and Rafales are being bought (in addtion to the upgrading of the Mirage 2000s and MiG-29s). The LCA will hold its own against any enemy in the region fighting on its turf just how it is designed to fight- it is not going to be going on long range strike missions in enemy airspace, it was never meant to do so. The LCA is a point defence aircraft that is being designed to conduct rear-guard operations and CAS whils the "heavies" take the fight to the enemy.

If they are equivalent, then countries like Malaysia should consider the LCA for their next
generation fighters, but they don't.

The LCA has only just been marketed to the international market, it will take a long time for it to get any such attention- how long did it take for SAAB to get orders for the NG?